Christian holidays vs Biblical holidays

[Studyman]

="Dan_473, post: 3639636, member: 190874"]

I thought you were using the story of Abraham preparing to sacrifice Isaac to show that Abraham kept the Passover.

Everyone who knew Jesus, also knew of His Salvation which begins with Passover. Even the Prophet Able would have Prophesied through the Spirit of Christ which was in him.

Justifying your lifestyle regarding the Sabbath is the only reason for this discussion. You can say it is about other things, but I don't believe it is. The word, when followed, causes one to "deny" himself and follow Jesus. In order to "deny" myself, I must first admit the truth about myself. This means being honest with myself about who I am. Not possible without the "Mirror" God created for me. This is where the Law and Prophets come in. Self deception is spoken about in the Bible several times. It is a plague in religious man I believe. I hear it all the time. "I keep every day Holy". What a crock, man kind can't even dedicate one day in seven to God as commanded, how can they keep every day Holy. Yet, this is what they tell themselves and they believe it.

You and Post actually believe the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love the Lord with all their heart, and Love their neighbor as themselves, and that Paul was teaching them not to listen this "law". "Law means Law"!!!

You actually say you can work, or play golf, or whatever and keep the Sabbath Holy unto the Lord. You actually believe this is the same as having your fleshy heart circumcised. Fascinating how you can't "CAN'T see the foolishness of this position.

Since you seem to have ignored much of my post, I will just post it again as it seems very relevant to the discussion.


Abraham was already obedient by the time God gave him an outward sign of obedience. And as we continue to "Seek the Kingdom of God" we learn, as did Paul, that the intent behind Circumcision was the "Renewing of our mind" or the "circumcision of the heart". I can't continue to live as if God did not make this distinction.

I know the Sabbath is the reason for our disagreement. This discussion is all about the Sabbath of God. Do we honor Him by following it, or do we follow the Path of the religious masses by not following it? You use scriptures that can promote your choice to not follow. This of course, causes you to disregard a lot of scriptures from the Word which became Flesh, both as the Word and as the Man Jesus which suggest it is God's Will for us to "Remember His Sabbath, and to keep it Holy. It is Holy because the Word which became Flesh made it Holy. We find evidence that we are not to rely on cutting flesh off our private parts for salvation, we are also influenced by much evidence that we are no longer to kill animals and have a Levite Priest sprinkle blood on an alter so we can be considered righteous. But I find zero evidence that the Christ, as the Word, and as the Man Jesus, every took away the Sanctification, or the Holy Status He bestowed on this commandment.


We have prophesy that the Gentiles (Uncircumcised in flesh by definition) will be taken into God's Fold. We have prophesy regarding the end of animal sacrifice and the Priesthood service of the Sanctuary.

We also have Prophesy that Priests who come in God's Name will preach lies. We have Prophesy that a great religion will speak out against the most High God and will " His intention will be to change times established by law".

But nowhere do we have Prophesy that God eliminated, altered or changing His Sabbath. Nowhere.

Should I not consider these Biblical facts when "Seeking the Kingdom and His Righteousness? What if most people ignore these Biblical facts? Should that change my mind regarding Scripture? If you think it should, then you should read about Caleb.

God's Law is spiritual. Not the Law of works, God calls this temporary Law a "Carnal Law". (Heb. 7) So the Jews who were still pushing their version of the Levitical Priesthood were walking in the Flesh. But those who "Walk in the "Law of Faith" are walking in the Spirit.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I believe Abraham followed the Law of Faith and was justified for his obedience, not the "Law of Works" which was added 430 years later.

I also believe Jesus walked in the Law of Faith and not the "Law of Works". How many goats did He sprinkle the blood of when He forgave sins? Answer!!! Not one. Did Jesus walk in God's Law? Yes. But there is a distinct difference between the "Law of Works and the Law of Faith. The Jews were not pushing the "Law of Faith" otherwise they and Paul would be on the same page. they were pushing the ":Law of Works" added 430 years later.

I understand that this understanding exposes many religious doctrines as false. "The Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws. "Jesus taught differently as a man than He did as the word. "God's Laws are a burden to mankind" "Jesus came to save us from God's Laws" and on and on.

these are all religious doctrines that are founded on the lie that there is difference between the Law of Faith and the Law of Works.

The discussion about the Laws and Commandments Abraham was blessed for obeying really brings this difference to the Light. But as it is written.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though One rose from the dead.

 

[Studyman]

Studyman,

it's not like you have to reinvent the wheel. is there a website that has the list of rules on it? assuming you're not the only person who thinks like this?

I have looked around myself but I couldn't find anything. It seems that many people are willing to talk about the abstract Theory of rule keeping, but no one wants to get down to specifics.

Well there you go Dan. God's Word is just an "Abstract Theory" to you. Maybe you should try respecting Him and His Word and be a doer and not just a hearer.

It's written in your Bible and has been there for centuries.

"But seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness".

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

And I'll add; "It's not in a Web Site that you should have to Google it"

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

You already know Dan. You just need to believe.

 

[Studyman]

Try Genesis 12.

There's no "if..then" in the text.

Scripture does not lie when it says inheritance is by promise, not law, and righteousness by faith, not works. When it says Hagar is the covenant of Sinai.

He says salvation is by grace through faith, that He shows Himself merciful to the one who is merciful, and I believe Him.

He says don't let anyone judge you over shadows, and i believe Him. It's not about sabbath. You don't know what I keep or don't keep, and you constantly lie about what I say and believe. It's about believing God when He says don't let anyone judge you over these things, and reject anyone who brings another gospel but the one you received.

You can't use God's Word in Chapter 12 to erase God's Word in Chapter 26 just because His Word doesn't agree with your religious traditions.

You can, and do. But I don't think this is what Jesus meant when He said "Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God".

It's your religion Post, you preach what you want. I just don't agree it lines up with the Words of the Jesus of the Bible. I just don't believe Jesus taught differently as a man, than He did as the Word. I just don't believe God's instructions are "Rudiments of the World". I just don't believe the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love God and follow His Commandments. Not because the Pope or Benny Hinn says so, but because of the Word's of the God of the Bible.

 

[Dan_473]

="Dan_473, post: 3639636, member: 190874"]

Everyone who knew Jesus, also knew of His Salvation which begins with Passover. Even the Prophet Able would have Prophesied through the Spirit of Christ which was in him.

Justifying your lifestyle regarding the Sabbath is the only reason for this discussion. You can say it is about other things, but I don't believe it is. The word, when followed, causes one to "deny" himself and follow Jesus. In order to "deny" myself, I must first admit the truth about myself. This means being honest with myself about who I am. Not possible without the "Mirror" God created for me. This is where the Law and Prophets come in. Self deception is spoken about in the Bible several times. It is a plague in religious man I believe. I hear it all the time. "I keep every day Holy". What a crock, man kind can't even dedicate one day in seven to God as commanded, how can they keep every day Holy. Yet, this is what they tell themselves and they believe it.

You and Post actually believe the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love the Lord with all their heart, and Love their neighbor as themselves, and that Paul was teaching them not to listen this "law". "Law means Law"!!!

You actually say you can work, or play golf, or whatever and keep the Sabbath Holy unto the Lord. You actually believe this is the same as having your fleshy heart circumcised. Fascinating how you can't "CAN'T see the foolishness of this position.

Since you seem to have ignored much of my post, I will just post it again as it seems very relevant to the discussion.


Abraham was already obedient by the time God gave him an outward sign of obedience. And as we continue to "Seek the Kingdom of God" we learn, as did Paul, that the intent behind Circumcision was the "Renewing of our mind" or the "circumcision of the heart". I can't continue to live as if God did not make this distinction.

I know the Sabbath is the reason for our disagreement. This discussion is all about the Sabbath of God. Do we honor Him by following it, or do we follow the Path of the religious masses by not following it? You use scriptures that can promote your choice to not follow. This of course, causes you to disregard a lot of scriptures from the Word which became Flesh, both as the Word and as the Man Jesus which suggest it is God's Will for us to "Remember His Sabbath, and to keep it Holy. It is Holy because the Word which became Flesh made it Holy. We find evidence that we are not to rely on cutting flesh off our private parts for salvation, we are also influenced by much evidence that we are no longer to kill animals and have a Levite Priest sprinkle blood on an alter so we can be considered righteous. But I find zero evidence that the Christ, as the Word, and as the Man Jesus, every took away the Sanctification, or the Holy Status He bestowed on this commandment.


We have prophesy that the Gentiles (Uncircumcised in flesh by definition) will be taken into God's Fold. We have prophesy regarding the end of animal sacrifice and the Priesthood service of the Sanctuary.

We also have Prophesy that Priests who come in God's Name will preach lies. We have Prophesy that a great religion will speak out against the most High God and will " His intention will be to change times established by law".

But nowhere do we have Prophesy that God eliminated, altered or changing His Sabbath. Nowhere.

Should I not consider these Biblical facts when "Seeking the Kingdom and His Righteousness? What if most people ignore these Biblical facts? Should that change my mind regarding Scripture? If you think it should, then you should read about Caleb.

God's Law is spiritual. Not the Law of works, God calls this temporary Law a "Carnal Law". (Heb. 7) So the Jews who were still pushing their version of the Levitical Priesthood were walking in the Flesh. But those who "Walk in the "Law of Faith" are walking in the Spirit.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I believe Abraham followed the Law of Faith and was justified for his obedience, not the "Law of Works" which was added 430 years later.

I also believe Jesus walked in the Law of Faith and not the "Law of Works". How many goats did He sprinkle the blood of when He forgave sins? Answer!!! Not one. Did Jesus walk in God's Law? Yes. But there is a distinct difference between the "Law of Works and the Law of Faith. The Jews were not pushing the "Law of Faith" otherwise they and Paul would be on the same page. they were pushing the ":Law of Works" added 430 years later.

I understand that this understanding exposes many religious doctrines as false. "The Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws. "Jesus taught differently as a man than He did as the word. "God's Laws are a burden to mankind" "Jesus came to save us from God's Laws" and on and on.

these are all religious doctrines that are founded on the lie that there is difference between the Law of Faith and the Law of Works.

The discussion about the Laws and Commandments Abraham was blessed for obeying really brings this difference to the Light. But as it is written.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though One rose from the dead.

so you weren't using the story of Abraham preparing to sacrifice Isaac to show that Abraham kept the Passover?

no I am not interested in justifying a particular lifestyle

yes it is good to look in the mirror of the law and the prophets.

for a Believer, I think all days are dedicated to God. We have been bought with a price we are not our own.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the part in your post about Paul teaching the Galatians not to love God or their neighbor.

what do you mean about having the fleshly heart circumsized? Isn't the circumcision of the heart a spiritual thing, not done to the physical heart?

no I do not believe that you can do whatever and keep the Sabbath holy. You can however do God's will everyday of the week. all the days of your life can be devoted to God.

I did not ignore any part of your post. In fact, I went through it point-by-point as I'm doing now with this current post.

the role of the Sabbath in the life of the believer is no doubt part of our disagreement. But I don't really know what all we agree or disagree on since you won't publish what you believe to be the Commandments for today.

I do follow the Sabbath, just as I am circumsized in my heart.

yes the Sabbath is and always will be holy.

the next section of your post and seems to be a kind of sermon against the great Babylon. I don't see that it deals specifically with any particular points in my post. I believe it is basically a straw man argument.

 

[Dan_473]

Well there you go Dan. God's Word is just an "Abstract Theory" to you. Maybe you should try respecting Him and His Word and be a doer and not just a hearer.

It's written in your Bible and has been there for centuries.

"But seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness".

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

And I'll add; "It's not in a Web Site that you should have to Google it"

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

You already know Dan. You just need to believe.

no I didn't say that God's word is abstract Theory.

many people when discussing issues of law in the scriptures seem very eager to talk about the theory of it, but very unwilling to talk about specifics.

it seems to me that you also are unwilling to talk about specifics. General things like the law of faith and the law of works you will talk about at length. that specific things about what Commandments are in the law Faith or the law of works or if there is overlap or if they're all exactly the same, on this I sense a great reluctance from you.

 

[Dan_473]

Jewish people seem to have no trouble talking about exactly what laws they believe they should follow.

From what I know of Jewish life, many tend to spend great lengths of time talking about how to keep specific laws.

But something weird seems to change, something weird happens when believers start talking about rules.

Those most in favor of keeping a set of rules seem most reluctant to say what the rules are.

If someone asks me what the Ten Commandments are, boom I can put up the references and probably less than a minute. or if someone asks me what are the laws traditionally kept by traditional Jews. again I can post a URL to a website in moments.

But again something different with believers who seem really into keeping rules.

 

[Blik]

Do you confess that physical circumcision was commanded by God and no longer is, yes or no?

Physical circumcision was commanded by God. Spiritual circumcision is still commanded by God.

Paul explained that God used this very like someone leading children to school. Now we are still to go to school. By school Paul meant to accept the spiritual teachings these acts were to lead to.

By celebrating and praising God as God asks to be celebrated and praised does not fit into this teaching. We are instructed never to copy the pagans but to keep ourselves separate. Each of our "religious" holidays were man made even Easter. That word Easter is only found in the KJV where interpreters called a Passover celebration an Easter celebration in error.

 

[Dan_473]

Physical circumcision was commanded by God. Spiritual circumcision is still commanded by God.

Paul explained that God used this very like someone leading children to school. Now we are still to go to school. By school Paul meant to accept the spiritual teachings these acts were to lead to.

By celebrating and praising God as God asks to be celebrated and praised does not fit into this teaching. We are instructed never to copy the pagans but to keep ourselves separate. Each of our "religious" holidays were man made even Easter. That word Easter is only found in the KJV where interpreters called a Passover celebration an Easter celebration in error.

hi Blik,

when you are celebrating and praising God, and Amen to that!, what laws do you keep? do you keep all of the laws mentioned in the Old Testament? if you only keep some, which ones do you keep?

 

[Yahshua]

1) Every word out of Yah's mouth is law. Law meaning "rule that governs".

Scripture says...

- his Word doesn't return to him void but accomplishes everything it sets out to do (i.e. immutable)
- in the beginning was His Word (i.e. first that establishes everything else)
- The world was framed by His Word (i.e. sets boundaries like in mathematical meaning of "rule")
- man lives by every word out of Yah's mouth (and consequently dies by contradicting Yah's word)
- Christ is the Word of Yah

So for instance:

- "Do not eat of the forbidden tree" was a law because Yah commanded it.
- The 7th Day was blessed and set apart from the other 6 days as law because Yah rested on that 1 day.
- "Take off you shoes for the ground on which you stand is holy" was law because Yah was currently standing there.
- "May no fruit grow on thee henceforth" was law and thus withered the tree because Christ commanded it.

Every word out of Yah's mouth is law.


2) Yah and Christ are not linear. They don't exist one moment at a time like man does.

Scripture says...

- Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever (i.e. unchangeable)
- Yah does not change (i.e. unchangeable)
- Yah inhabits eternity (i.e. nothing occurs to him)

Because man can only exist one. moment. at. a. time, Yah's ways are revealed to man through the progression of time. But it doesn't mean certain ways (or laws) of His didn't exist until they were first revealed to man at a certain point in time. Yah isn't a man in that he has to "learn as he goes along" as he deals with us.

[Personally I find this point to be one of the hardest things for believers to understand. We've a tendency to attribute our qualities to the divine, which has led to incorrect doctrine like "OT God vs. NT Christ", dissecting scripture as if Yah had to learn us or progress in his understanding of us in order to do something different that would "finally work for us".]

Rather we have to progress in our understanding of Yah's ways.


3) Scripture doesn't go into every detail when it first addresses a biblical event or situation, but many times reveals more details much later in scripture that must retroactively apply to a previous event or situation for our understanding (because of point 2).

Unfortunately, just like our progression of time we also read one verse, chapter, book, one account at a time. But this is why we're to study scripture "precept upon precept. line upon line. here a little there a little" in order to get a fuller picture of what's going on in any given situation or at any point in time...and why we can't just read the second half of scripture as if to try to skip to the portions that apply to us.

Scriptural example...

- In genesis, Adam is told he'll SURELY die IN THE DAY he eats the forbidden fruit...but we read he lived 930 years before dying. If we ended here with this event one's left to speculate whether Yah lied or whether it was spiritual death. Well we don't find out more information about this event until much later in Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 where it's revealed that 1000 human years are like a day to Yah. So we can go back and understand that Adam truly died in the day of his sin; within the 1000 years of his life.

So just because the specific set of laws Abraham obeyed weren't enumerated for the reader during the chapters on Abraham, it doesn't mean those laws weren't enumerated for us later in scripture to better understand what applied to Abraham in his time.


4) A shadow picture doesn't nullify the law it represents

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 explains that the spirit isn't first. The natural (flesh) came first and then the spiritual afterwards. So to explain his truths and teach his ways Yah enacted shadow pictures that our fleshy minds could understand.

For example...

- "Yah will only dwell in a Holy Temple" is still the law. The physical furnishing and rituals of laver cleansing were to explain the spirit law still in effect. Thus we're told the body is a temple (and all that implies regarding taking care of it, baptisms, and not sinning against it, which the writers explain; fornication; poisonous foods, etc)

- Circumcision law still exists. The fleshy version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus loving Yah with every ounce of your heart (belief/obedience), soul (being/character), mind (thoughts/intentions), and strength (effort/energy/work).

- Do not murder was the fleshy version to explain the root cause of murder, thus the spiritual law still in effect. Thus no hating of even one's enemy.

- ALL sacrificial blood atonement law still exists. The fleshy animal version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus Christ is actively ministering with his blood in heaven for our sin in obedience to this law right now. We must have faith in him obeying this law because we can't *see* him actually doing it ("we walk by faith and not by sight"). This is the ONLY reason why we specifically are commanded not to sacrifice animals anymore; because it would step on Christ's toes and offend the hard work he's doing to obey this active law in its true spiritual form as High Priest of heaven (Hebrews). Thus by having faith in Christ, abstaining and not stepping on his toes with this we are obeying this law.

- The sacrificial burnt offerings law still exists. The fleshy animal version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus WE are to be living sacrifices, set-apart and made acceptable to Yah, which means denying our flesh and its lusts and desire to sin, crucifying it daily. Spiritually burning up this beast on the alter daily. When we fast we are afflicting our souls, burning a sacrifice on the alter of this earthly temple.

- Yah's Holidays still exist as law, commanded to be celebrated wherever Yah has placed his name. The fleshy version was the Temple in Jerusalem since it was where Yah placed his name in shadow. But spiritually our bodies are the new temple as we've been baptized *in the name* of the father and the Son; his name has been placed on the believer. Christ prophesied to the woman at the well that a time would come when people wouldn't worship on the mountain or in Jerusalem but in spirit and truth.


True faith in Yah will always lead to a growing expression of obeying every word out of Yah's mouth, in spirit and in truth.

 

[beta]

You can't use God's Word in Chapter 12 to erase God's Word in Chapter 26 just because His Word doesn't agree with your religious traditions.

You can, and do. But I don't think this is what Jesus meant when He said "Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God".

It's your religion Post, you preach what you want. I just don't agree it lines up with the Words of the Jesus of the Bible. I just don't believe Jesus taught differently as a man, than He did as the Word. I just don't believe God's instructions are "Rudiments of the World". I just don't believe the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love God and follow His Commandments. Not because the Pope or Benny Hinn says so, but because of the Word's of the God of the Bible.

If people don't believe the WORD OF GOD neither will they believe us when speaking the same words....so it might be best to leave them to their Beliefs. I mean...it's not as if they even want to hear us.....they DON'T !!!

 

[posthuman]

You can't use God's Word in Chapter 12 to erase God's Word in Chapter 26 just because His Word doesn't agree with your religious traditions.

You can, and do. But I don't think this is what Jesus meant when He said "Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God".

It's your religion Post,

I forgive you

 

[Studyman]

If people don't believe the WORD OF GOD neither will they believe us when speaking the same words....so it might be best to leave them to their Beliefs. I mean...it's not as if they even want to hear us.....they DON'T !!!

You have given this excellent advice to me before. I need to learn how to follow it. Thanks Beta:^)

 

[posthuman]

Ezekiel 2:7
And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house.

Jeremiah 7:27
So you shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you. You shall call to them, but they will not answer you.

 

[posthuman]

On the other hand,

Titus 3:10
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him


So we see that it really happens to matter what context scripture comes from and the intent and audience it has. We can't just take things from anywhere in the Book willy-nilly, ripping them out of their place and universally applying them.

We have to understand the context of the text, and our own context as having received Him.

 

[Dan_473]

1) Every word out of Yah's mouth is law. Law meaning "rule that governs".

Scripture says...

- his Word doesn't return to him void but accomplishes everything it sets out to do (i.e. immutable)
- in the beginning was His Word (i.e. first that establishes everything else)
- The world was framed by His Word (i.e. sets boundaries like in mathematical meaning of "rule")
- man lives by every word out of Yah's mouth (and consequently dies by contradicting Yah's word)
- Christ is the Word of Yah

So for instance:

- "Do not eat of the forbidden tree" was a law because Yah commanded it.
- The 7th Day was blessed and set apart from the other 6 days as law because Yah rested on that 1 day.
- "Take off you shoes for the ground on which you stand is holy" was law because Yah was currently standing there.
- "May no fruit grow on thee henceforth" was law and thus withered the tree because Christ commanded it.

Every word out of Yah's mouth is law.


2) Yah and Christ are not linear. They don't exist one moment at a time like man does.

Scripture says...

- Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever (i.e. unchangeable)
- Yah does not change (i.e. unchangeable)
- Yah inhabits eternity (i.e. nothing occurs to him)

Because man can only exist one. moment. at. a. time, Yah's ways are revealed to man through the progression of time. But it doesn't mean certain ways (or laws) of His didn't exist until they were first revealed to man at a certain point in time. Yah isn't a man in that he has to "learn as he goes along" as he deals with us.

[Personally I find this point to be one of the hardest things for believers to understand. We've a tendency to attribute our qualities to the divine, which has led to incorrect doctrine like "OT God vs. NT Christ", dissecting scripture as if Yah had to learn us or progress in his understanding of us in order to do something different that would "finally work for us".]

Rather we have to progress in our understanding of Yah's ways.


3) Scripture doesn't go into every detail when it first addresses a biblical event or situation, but many times reveals more details much later in scripture that must retroactively apply to a previous event or situation for our understanding (because of point 2).

Unfortunately, just like our progression of time we also read one verse, chapter, book, one account at a time. But this is why we're to study scripture "precept upon precept. line upon line. here a little there a little" in order to get a fuller picture of what's going on in any given situation or at any point in time...and why we can't just read the second half of scripture as if to try to skip to the portions that apply to us.

Scriptural example...

- In genesis, Adam is told he'll SURELY die IN THE DAY he eats the forbidden fruit...but we read he lived 930 years before dying. If we ended here with this event one's left to speculate whether Yah lied or whether it was spiritual death. Well we don't find out more information about this event until much later in Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 where it's revealed that 1000 human years are like a day to Yah. So we can go back and understand that Adam truly died in the day of his sin; within the 1000 years of his life.

So just because the specific set of laws Abraham obeyed weren't enumerated for the reader during the chapters on Abraham, it doesn't mean those laws weren't enumerated for us later in scripture to better understand what applied to Abraham in his time.


4) A shadow picture doesn't nullify the law it represents

1 Corinthians 15:46-49 explains that the spirit isn't first. The natural (flesh) came first and then the spiritual afterwards. So to explain his truths and teach his ways Yah enacted shadow pictures that our fleshy minds could understand.

For example...

- "Yah will only dwell in a Holy Temple" is still the law. The physical furnishing and rituals of laver cleansing were to explain the spirit law still in effect. Thus we're told the body is a temple (and all that implies regarding taking care of it, baptisms, and not sinning against it, which the writers explain; fornication; poisonous foods, etc)

- Circumcision law still exists. The fleshy version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus loving Yah with every ounce of your heart (belief/obedience), soul (being/character), mind (thoughts/intentions), and strength (effort/energy/work).

- Do not murder was the fleshy version to explain the root cause of murder, thus the spiritual law still in effect. Thus no hating of even one's enemy.

- ALL sacrificial blood atonement law still exists. The fleshy animal version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus Christ is actively ministering with his blood in heaven for our sin in obedience to this law right now. We must have faith in him obeying this law because we can't *see* him actually doing it ("we walk by faith and not by sight"). This is the ONLY reason why we specifically are commanded not to sacrifice animals anymore; because it would step on Christ's toes and offend the hard work he's doing to obey this active law in its true spiritual form as High Priest of heaven (Hebrews). Thus by having faith in Christ, abstaining and not stepping on his toes with this we are obeying this law.

- The sacrificial burnt offerings law still exists. The fleshy animal version was to explain the spiritual law still in effect. Thus WE are to be living sacrifices, set-apart and made acceptable to Yah, which means denying our flesh and its lusts and desire to sin, crucifying it daily. Spiritually burning up this beast on the alter daily. When we fast we are afflicting our souls, burning a sacrifice on the alter of this earthly temple.

- Yah's Holidays still exist as law, commanded to be celebrated wherever Yah has placed his name. The fleshy version was the Temple in Jerusalem since it was where Yah placed his name in shadow. But spiritually our bodies are the new temple as we've been baptized *in the name* of the father and the Son; his name has been placed on the believer. Christ prophesied to the woman at the well that a time would come when people wouldn't worship on the mountain or in Jerusalem but in spirit and truth.


True faith in Yah will always lead to a growing expression of obeying every word out of Yah's mouth, in spirit and in truth.

if I understand what you're saying right, it's basically Keep all the laws anywhere in the Bible, keep them all spiritually.

that sounds great! It's only when people want to focus on keeping laws physically that I see red flags go up.

 

[Blik]

hi Blik,

when you are celebrating and praising God, and Amen to that!, what laws do you keep? do you keep all of the laws mentioned in the Old Testament? if you only keep some, which ones do you keep?

What a silly question! Do you commit murder? If you keep the law to not commit murder, what other laws do you keep?

 

[Dan_473]

What a silly question! Do you commit murder? If you keep the law to not commit murder, what other laws do you keep?

it's not a silly question. it's surprising to me how many people who focus on rules or unwilling to say what rules they keep.

The Only Rule I concern myself with is to love my neighbor as myself.

 

[Blik]

it's not a silly question. it's surprising to me how many people who focus on rules or unwilling to say what rules they keep.

The Only Rule I concern myself with is to love my neighbor as myself.

Well, bully for you. I think it is the base for all the laws. Your life would have more abundance and achievements if you dumped the pride and learned the code that God made our world to live by. You can't do it perfectly, but with trying you get a jump ahead.

But salvation comes first, salvation is the glory of the Lord.

 

[Blik]

1) Every word out of Yah's mouth is law. Law meaning "rule that governs".

Scripture says....

Reading this post was like going to a true church of the Lord.

 

[beta]

You have given this excellent advice to me before. I need to learn how to follow it. Thanks Beta:^)

I am not sure it is the best by far, but long continuous arguments in mho are pointless and even destructive since God works with different people on different levels of understanding ....so it may even be harmful to them trying to fit them into our own ways designed by God. GOD may have a different purpose for them....let us just be more patient with each other...is all I can offer really....and wait on the LORD !
I agree with you it is the Sabbath-issue causing this 'split between believers and to me it goes as deep as following two different L/lords....one true, one false. Yashua WARNED of false christs and until all accept the one who is the same yesterday and today and does not change there can be NO PEACE !
The Lord of the Sabbath does not change HIS Holy day to sunday...wherein lies the deception/destruction of the foundation. It is GOD who makes any changes necessary - NOT MAN who wants to maintain sunday.