The Messiah's Spirit left His body at the moment of His death. Where did it go?
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From Adam Clarke's commentary:
1 Peter 3:19
By which - Spirit, his own Divine energy and authority.
He went and preached - By the ministry of Noah, one hundred and twenty years.
Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by his just law to destruction. But their punishment was delayed to see if they would repent; and the long-suffering of God waited one hundred and twenty years, which were granted to them for this purpose; during which time, as criminals tried and convicted, they are represented as being in prison - detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance or the expiration of the respite, that the punishment pronounced might be inflicted.
This I have long believed to be the sense of this difficult passage, and no other that I have seen is so consistent with the whole scope of the place. That the Spirit of God did strive with, convict, and reprove the antediluvians, is evident from Genesis 6:3; : My Spirit shall not always strive with man, forasmuch as he is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
And it was by this Spirit that Noah became a preacher of righteousness, and condemned that ungodly world, Hebrews 11:7, who would not believe till wrath - Divine punishment, came upon them to the uttermost. The word πνευμασι, spirits, is supposed to render this view of the subject improbable, because this must mean disembodied spirits; but this certainly does not follow, for the spirits of just men made perfect, Hebrews 12:23, certainly means righteous men, and men still in the Church militant; and the Father of spirits, Hebrews 12:9, means men still in the body; and the God of the spirits of all flesh, Numbers 16:22; Numbers 27:16, means men not in a disembodied state.
1 Peter 3:19
By which - Spirit, his own Divine energy and authority.
He went and preached - By the ministry of Noah, one hundred and twenty years.
Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by his just law to destruction. But their punishment was delayed to see if they would repent; and the long-suffering of God waited one hundred and twenty years, which were granted to them for this purpose; during which time, as criminals tried and convicted, they are represented as being in prison - detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance or the expiration of the respite, that the punishment pronounced might be inflicted.
This I have long believed to be the sense of this difficult passage, and no other that I have seen is so consistent with the whole scope of the place. That the Spirit of God did strive with, convict, and reprove the antediluvians, is evident from Genesis 6:3; : My Spirit shall not always strive with man, forasmuch as he is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
And it was by this Spirit that Noah became a preacher of righteousness, and condemned that ungodly world, Hebrews 11:7, who would not believe till wrath - Divine punishment, came upon them to the uttermost. The word πνευμασι, spirits, is supposed to render this view of the subject improbable, because this must mean disembodied spirits; but this certainly does not follow, for the spirits of just men made perfect, Hebrews 12:23, certainly means righteous men, and men still in the Church militant; and the Father of spirits, Hebrews 12:9, means men still in the body; and the God of the spirits of all flesh, Numbers 16:22; Numbers 27:16, means men not in a disembodied state.
Not necessarily! When Jesus resurrected, He said to Mary, "Don't hang on to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father." When Jesus said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" it means to protect it, to entrust, the keeping of. Therefore, it does not specifically mean that Jesus spirit returned to the Father.
"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let your Holy One see decay." - Psalms 16:10
First, Jesus says "You will not abandon my soul to Sheol" which would be the place of departed spirits. Then He says, "nor will You let you Holy One see decay," which is in reference to His body not decaying.
Therefore, when Jesus died, His body was put in the tomb and His spirit departed and went down into Sheol/Hades. Three days later when it was time for Him to resurrect, His spirit returned to His body where He became immortal and glorified. His resurrection fulfilled that prophecy which says "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let your Holy One see decay."
As another proof of this, Jesus told the man crucified next to Him, "today you will be with me in paradise." Therefore, since both men died that same day, Jesus was referring to their spirits departing from their bodies and going down into Sheol/Hades which was the same place that Abraham and Lazarus were, which was that place of comfort/paradise.
"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let your Holy One see decay." - Psalms 16:10
First, Jesus says "You will not abandon my soul to Sheol" which would be the place of departed spirits. Then He says, "nor will You let you Holy One see decay," which is in reference to His body not decaying.
Therefore, when Jesus died, His body was put in the tomb and His spirit departed and went down into Sheol/Hades. Three days later when it was time for Him to resurrect, His spirit returned to His body where He became immortal and glorified. His resurrection fulfilled that prophecy which says "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let your Holy One see decay."
As another proof of this, Jesus told the man crucified next to Him, "today you will be with me in paradise." Therefore, since both men died that same day, Jesus was referring to their spirits departing from their bodies and going down into Sheol/Hades which was the same place that Abraham and Lazarus were, which was that place of comfort/paradise.
Why don't you join with you RCC buddies when dealing with purgatory/paradise teachings. That is where they come from:
Main article: History of Purgatory
While use of the word "purgatory" (in Latin purgatorium) as a noun appeared perhaps only between 1160 and 1180, giving rise to the idea of purgatory as a place[12] (what Jacques Le Goff called the "birth" of purgatory),[13] the Roman Catholic tradition of purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them and to the belief, found also in Judaism,[14] which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification.
From Wikipedia
Main article: History of Purgatory
While use of the word "purgatory" (in Latin purgatorium) as a noun appeared perhaps only between 1160 and 1180, giving rise to the idea of purgatory as a place[12] (what Jacques Le Goff called the "birth" of purgatory),[13] the Roman Catholic tradition of purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them and to the belief, found also in Judaism,[14] which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification.
From Wikipedia
No it did not. That is why we have this prophecy in Scripture quoted by Peter:
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [SHEOL]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)
Jesus said that He would be in the heart of the earth (Sheol/Hades) for three days and three nights. So that is where His soul and spirit were, while His body lay in the tomb. And God did not leave Him in Hades, since He was gloriously resurrected immediately after that. And even though this is addressed to God the Father, we know from other Scriptures that Christ ad the Holy Spirit were all involved in His resurrection.
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [SHEOL]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)
Jesus said that He would be in the heart of the earth (Sheol/Hades) for three days and three nights. So that is where His soul and spirit were, while His body lay in the tomb. And God did not leave Him in Hades, since He was gloriously resurrected immediately after that. And even though this is addressed to God the Father, we know from other Scriptures that Christ ad the Holy Spirit were all involved in His resurrection.
1 Peter 3 : 18- 19 refers to where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in hell during the 3 days and 3 nights His body was in the tomb..
In Jesus case since His is God manifested in the flesh all such other scriptures which refer to what happens to the spirits of men does not factor into it..
1 Timothy 3: KJV
16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
In Jesus case since His is God manifested in the flesh all such other scriptures which refer to what happens to the spirits of men does not factor into it..
1 Timothy 3: KJV
16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
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Hello carl11,
The word "paradise" is not exclusive to referring to heaven. The garden of Eden was also referred to as "paradise" but was not in heaven. Since the scripture states that the rich man was in Hades and He could see Abraham and Lazarus and that it is stated that there was a great chasm (gorge, canyon, ravine, gap, fissure, etc.,) then it is obvious that the rich man, Abraham and Lazarus were all in the same location, but were separated by that chasm so that no one from either side could over. Therefore, when the rich man asked Abraham to go have him dip his finger in the water and touch his tongue, Abraham said, "remember in your life time you received your good things and Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted and you are in agony." That place of comfort that Abraham and Lazarus were in, was that place of paradise.
Jesus mentioned this place when He told the man next to Him that "today you will be with me in paradise." Jesus was referring to the departure of their spirits from their bodies going down to that place of comfort where Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were.
However, you are correct in that Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints are now in heaven, because they were removed from Sheol and are now in the presence of the Lord, which is now where every believers spirit goes at the time of the death of the body.
The word "paradise" is not exclusive to referring to heaven. The garden of Eden was also referred to as "paradise" but was not in heaven. Since the scripture states that the rich man was in Hades and He could see Abraham and Lazarus and that it is stated that there was a great chasm (gorge, canyon, ravine, gap, fissure, etc.,) then it is obvious that the rich man, Abraham and Lazarus were all in the same location, but were separated by that chasm so that no one from either side could over. Therefore, when the rich man asked Abraham to go have him dip his finger in the water and touch his tongue, Abraham said, "remember in your life time you received your good things and Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted and you are in agony." That place of comfort that Abraham and Lazarus were in, was that place of paradise.
Jesus mentioned this place when He told the man next to Him that "today you will be with me in paradise." Jesus was referring to the departure of their spirits from their bodies going down to that place of comfort where Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were.
However, you are correct in that Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints are now in heaven, because they were removed from Sheol and are now in the presence of the Lord, which is now where every believers spirit goes at the time of the death of the body.
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Really Carl, in the grave? Having a conversation with Lazarus in a place of comfort and the rich man in a place of torment in flame? Does that sound like the grave to you? As I said, the fact that Abraham was speaking with the rich man, that they could see each other and they were separated by a large chasm demonstrates that they were in the same location under the earth in Hades. I also told you that the word "paradise" is not unique to just referring to heaven. Why do you people continue to resist the truth at every turn?
Have you considered the possibility that you're not speaking the truth?
Your primary error is in believing that the parable in Luke 16 is literal. We know from dozens of OT scriptures that when a person dies, he is dead, with no thought, no emotion, no work, he cannot praise God, and more.
Death is death, not some other form of life.
Your primary error is in believing that the parable in Luke 16 is literal. We know from dozens of OT scriptures that when a person dies, he is dead, with no thought, no emotion, no work, he cannot praise God, and more.
Death is death, not some other form of life.
Paradise is only found 3x in the Bible and each one of theses cases it refers to the 3rd heaven. As far as the story of the rich man and Lazarus it can be readily shown that it is a parable. Now just because there are names used and places does not mean it is not a parable. There is a reason why Lazarus named was mentioned and not the rich man.