The Law

[oldethennew]

you are so OFF, ...shame on you,...

 

[oldethennew]

ask yourself - did God move your fingers???

 

[MarkWilliams]

Do you think that is so? That we become obedient after we are saved?
What of Acts of the Apostles and chapter 2? Peter is in Jerusalem and speaking to thousands gathered. He and the 11 other Apostles are there.
Many in the crowd become convicted of their part in Messiahs death.

Acts of the Apostles Chapter 2
32 So Jesus is the One whom God raised from the dead. And we are all witnesses to this. 33 Jesus was ·lifted up to heaven and is now at [L exalted to] God’s right ·side [L hand; C a position of highest honor beside the king]. The Father has given the Holy Spirit to Jesus as he promised. So Jesus has poured out that Spirit, and this is what you now see and hear. 34 David was not the one who ·was lifted up [went up; ascended] to heaven, but he said:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit by me at my right ·side [L hand; v. 33],
35 until I ·put your enemies under your control [L make your enemies a footstool for your feet; Ps. 110:1].”’
36 “·So [Therefore], all the ·people [L house] of Israel should know this ·truly [with certainty]: God has made Jesus—the man you ·nailed to the cross [crucified]—both Lord and ·Christ [Messiah].”

37 When the people heard this, they ·felt guilty [were deeply distressed; L were cut/pierced to the heart] and asked Peter and the other apostles, “What shall we do, ·brothers [L men, brothers]?”

38 Peter said to them, “·Change your hearts and lives [Repent] and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 [L For] This promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away [C both in space and time; may refer to Gentiles and/or Jews scattered outside the land of Israel]. It is for everyone the Lord our God calls to himself [Joel 2:32].” "

Isn't Peter teaching there that obedience begins with doing what Jesus said to do in order to change a persons heart and life?
When someone obeys that teaching and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit they then are led to obey God. Because the Holy Spirit is taking over their life as the old life and self that was dead in its sin is no longer present. That repentant, baptized, Holy Spirit filled person is a new creation that is washed clean of death. Clean of sins. And now they are in relationship with the Holy Spirit and are able to do many wonderful things with the Spirit present within.

"40 Peter ·warned [testified to] them with many other ·words [arguments]. He ·begged [pleaded with; exhorted; urged] them, “Save yourselves from ·the evil of today’s people [L this corrupt/crooked/perverse generation]!” 41 Then those people who accepted what Peter said were baptized. About three thousand ·people [souls] were added to the number of believers that day. 42 They ·spent [devoted] their time learning the apostles’ teaching, ·sharing [fellowship], breaking bread [C this may refer to a meal as in v. 46, or to the Lord’s Supper; Luke 22:14–20], and praying together. "

Yes, that's my understanding that we become obedient after we receive the gift of faith and repentance. Most folks believe that it's the other way around, where you decide to believe in Jesus and then you become obedient because you agree with what He is teaching you to do.

 

[MarkWilliams]

I've not seen the boasting that you are talking about, quite the contrary, I'm feeling
that the ones whose hearts belong to Jesus are unbelievably grateful to Him and
are filled with gratitude that He has made it possible for them to grow up and
step-up the ladder into His New World -

I've yet to see one person declare that 'obedience' is what saves them -
if I have missed someone saying such a thing, then of course they should be
prayed for...

you seem to want to 'stir-up', and cause people to doubt!

I have news for you, those who Christ has called, will always display their gratitude
in many ways, and confidence is one of them...

I would say that 90% of professing Christians either openly or secretly or in some sneaky way take some credit for their supposed salvation. They believe that they discovered the truth about Jesus and who He is and accepted Him as their Savior.

The Bible teaches that we contributed nothing to our salvation, a person who was born dead in sin has no capacity to chose to believe in Jesus. The Bible teaches that salvation is all the work of God, we contributed nothing. We hated God and we never would have given our lives to Him if He didn't cause us to, in the first palace.

 

[Adstar]

Most folks here dissagree with me when I mention that salvation is a gift and we contribute a big fat zero to it. They argue that we need to repent and believe and obey. They don't accept that it's the work of god from start to finish, including giving you repentance, fait and obedience.
I've found most want claim some of the glory for themselves

We must believe God.
We must aknowledge our need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..

 

[Nehemiah6]

Bottom line, the law had one purpose and that was to show that we could not purify ourselves. The law is like a mirror that shows our filth and that only through Jesus we can be made clean.

As long as you understand that that was NOT the sole purpose of the Law. So you might wish to continue examining the Law in all its aspects and facets.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Bible teaches that we contributed nothing to our salvation, a person who was born dead in sin has no capacity to chose to believe in Jesus. The Bible teaches that salvation is all the work of God, we contributed nothing. We hated God and we never would have given our lives to Him if He didn't cause us to, in the first palace.

More Calvinistic propaganda. Looks like you have really been ensnared by this pseudo-Gospel.

We don't "contribute" to our salvation. However we must OBEY the Gospel. And God does not do the obeying for us.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16).

So two important questions for you:

1. Must sinners obey they Gospel, or can they simply glide into Heaven?

2. Did God do the obeying for you, or did you personally obey the Gospel?

 

[MarkWilliams]

We must believe God.
We must aknowledge our need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..

Do we believe before we are saved or after, if we believe before then why do some believe and others don't.

If belief comes down to an individuals intelligence where by he believes because he has used his understanding of things to arrive at the decision to believe after careful evaluation of the available facts. This is not what the Bible teaches, it teaches that "smart" people reject the Gospel, they find it foolish to give your life away to some dead Jew from 2000 years ago.

The things of God are foolishness to the natural man, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, only God can give a carnal man the gift of faith to illuminate him with the truth.

 

[MarkWilliams]

More Calvinistic propaganda. Looks like you have really been ensnared by this pseudo-Gospel.

We don't "contribute" to our salvation. However we must OBEY the Gospel. And God does not do the obeying for us.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Rom 10:16).

So two important questions for you:

1. Must sinners obey they Gospel, or can they simply glide into Heaven?

2. Did God do the obeying for you, or did you personally obey the Gospel?

Why do you think that the most intelligent people of all time rejected the Gospel and they refused to believe. In case you don't know, the Gospel is foolishness to the natural "normal" person. Only those crazy Christians would believe such a ridiculous idea.

Why would a successful, smart, highly educated person who enjoys life to the full decide to give it all away and follow a dead Jew from 2000 years ago. It's utter foolishness until God forces you to abandon your wisdom and embrace the foolishness of the Gospel.

No smart person will ever believe and obey, until God radically converts them. You would never chose God in a million years if He didn't chose you first. You can only believe and obey after He converts you

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you think that the most intelligent people of all time rejected the Gospel and they refused to believe.

You did not respond to those specific questions which were asked. Never mind about going off on a tangent. Stick with the subject and stick with the focus.

So two important questions for you:

1. Must sinners obey the Gospel, or can they simply glide into Heaven?

2. Did God do the obeying for you, or did you personally obey the Gospel?

 

[MarkWilliams]

You did not respond to those specific questions which were asked. Never mind about going off on a tangent. Stick with the subject and stick with the focus.

So two important questions for you:

1. Must sinners obey the Gospel, or can they simply glide into Heaven?

2. Did God do the obeying for you, or did you personally obey the Gospel?

1. Sinners can not obey the Gospel because they are dead in their sin, so if you need to force a yes or no out of that then the answer is NO, THEY DON'T HAVE TO OBEY THE GOSPEL to be saved.
2. God did the obeying for all of the saved and we will simply glide into heaven, if you have to have it in those terms

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sinners can not obey the Gospel

If sinners cannot obey the Gospel, then God should not expect obedience to the Gospel. But the fact is that He does expect obedience to the Gospel, and that is why Paul says that some have not obeyed the Gospel. It is called "the obedience of faith", and it is certainly NOT God who does the obeying. That would be ludicrous.

 

[Adstar]

Do we believe before we are saved or after, if we believe before then why do some believe and others don't.

Because the conviction of the Holy Spirit can be resisted by some, and many do resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit..

Acts 7: KJV
51 "¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

If belief comes down to an individuals intelligence where by he believes because he has used his understanding of things to arrive at the decision to believe after careful evaluation of the available facts.

Intelligence has nothing to do with being saved.. It is a moral conviction that moves people.. Ones intellectual abilities gives one no advantage when it comes to the Message of the Gospel.. The Holy Spirit causes us to understand what we need to understand when we need to understand it..

This is not what the Bible teaches, it teaches that "smart" people reject the Gospel, they find it foolish to give your life away to some dead Jew from 2000 years ago.

No.. The Bible teaches that many people with worldly wisdom reject the Message of God, But not all....

1 Corinthians 1 KJV
26 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: {27} But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

The things of God are foolishness to the natural man, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, only God can give a carnal man the gift of faith to illuminate him with the truth.

As i said before indeed the Holy Spirit convicts so salvation comes from God, But as the Bible says many are called few are chosen.. If all that where called where chosen then the Bible would not declare this.. So the call of the Holy Spirit is resistible by those who hate the love of the truth..

Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[MarkWilliams]

Because the conviction of the Holy Spirit can be resisted by some, and many do resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit..

Acts 7: KJV
51 "¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."




Intelligence has nothing to do with being saved.. It is a moral conviction that moves people.. Ones intellectual abilities gives one no advantage when it comes to the Message of the Gospel.. The Holy Spirit causes us to understand what we need to understand when we need to understand it..




No.. The Bible teaches that many people with worldly wisdom reject the Message of God, But not all....

1 Corinthians 1 KJV
26 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: {27} But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"



As i said before indeed the Holy Spirit convicts so salvation comes from God, But as the Bible says many are called few are chosen.. If all that where called where chosen then the Bible would not declare this.. So the call of the Holy Spirit is resistible by those who hate the love of the truth..

Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Scripture can be used to argue both views, I have decided that predestination, election and the whole work of salvation is of God from start to finish and we contribute nothing in the work of salvation, it's all of God.

The debate has been raging for centuries by highly educated bible theologians, haven't reached a consensus on the question so I doubt that we will here.

I do believe we will be held accountable for our beliefs, if we haven't used our god given ability to embrace the truth it will cost us something. So I do believe it's very important to get it right, so we can live our lives in the truth of the Gospel.

 

[Blik]

I'll stick with what Paul said: "I myself am not under the Law." (1 Corinthians (9:20)

We live under the law of Christ, which is simply acknowledging that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. (Galatians 3:13)

If you live under the law as Christ told us, you live under the law as God the Father told it. Christ said He did not change anything, but whatever was told of Him in scripture He fulfilled it exactly as it was told to us. The people who lived at the same time Christ lived with us as a man did not believe that but we know it is true. Christ did not end anything, Christ and the blessings we have from the law is alive and well. People who believe that and live by the guidance of the law have inner peace and many blessings right here where we live.

Secular, worldly people go to self help books to read about what we know of God. They don't realize that what they are told to do for successful living is what the Christians who knows to study the law understand.

The curse of the law is that if we break it we die. If we live under grace we may go to Christ for salvation. Salvation from our sins requires repentance.

 

[MarkWilliams]

If you live under the law as Christ told us, you live under the law as God the Father told it. Christ said He did not change anything, but whatever was told of Him in scripture He fulfilled it exactly as it was told to us. The people who lived at the same time Christ lived with us as a man did not believe that but we know it is true. Christ did not end anything, Christ and the blessings we have from the law is alive and well. People who believe that and live by the guidance of the law have inner peace and many blessings right here where we live.

Secular, worldly people go to self help books to read about what we know of God. They don't realize that what they are told to do for successful living is what the Christians who knows to study the law understand.

The curse of the law is that if we break it we die. If we live under grace we may go to Christ for salvation. Salvation from our sins requires repentance.

We do not need to keep the law, because God knows it's impossible to keep the law. Jesus came and saved us believers from keeping the law so we have been forgiven for all of our past sins, present sins and all future sins.

The law was an old testament thing, it doesn't apply to new testament believers. That's what the Gospel is all about.

 

[Blik]

True , not one person on this earth has kept the law except Jesus . That is the very reason we need Jesus' saving grace.
When the law flows through us it kills us.

Isn't it the work of the Holy Spirit to have the law flow through us so we are guided by it? “But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does” (James 1:25).

 

[Blik]

Most folks here dissagree with me when I mention that salvation is a gift and we contribute a big fat zero to it. They argue that we need to repent and believe and obey. They don't accept that it's the work of god from start to finish, including giving you repentance, fait and obedience.
I've found most want claim some of the glory for themselves

Can't we thank our Lord for the guidance the law gives us, the blessings that is given us for keeping it, and at the same time understand that salvation is a gift?

Salvation isn't something we work for at all and then we are done with Christ. Salvation is a beginning to a wonderful life we live under His law, the same law His Father gave us.

 

[MarkWilliams]

Can't we thank our Lord for the guidance the law gives us, the blessings that is given us for keeping it, and at the same time understand that salvation is a gift?

Salvation isn't something we work for at all and then we are done with Christ. Salvation is a beginning to a wonderful life we live under His law, the same law His Father gave us.

The only function of the law for the Christian is a reminder that we cannot keep it. We continue to sin and break the law every single day, because we know it's impossible to keep so we don't worry when we break it.

We were forgiven for breaking the law in our past, present and future. We will remain sinners until we die, but have been forgiven and justified and made righteous so our salvation is 100% guaranteed and we have nothing to worry about.

 

[lightbearer]

So did GOD move your fingers to type that?

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; It is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure.
(Act 17:28; Phil 2:13)