Not By Works

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PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,921
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,921
eternally-gratefull said:
more self righteousness.

Man when will you figure out its not about you, Its about Jesus? He will not share his glory with anyone, But he will share his gift, if you just humble yourself and ask.
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Try again:
Joh 17:20-23 KJV
(20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,922
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,922
Budman said:
So many people miss the simplicity of the gospel.

Charles Stanley wrote:

Christians cannot be lost because we have no sins left to pay for. 100% of sins have been forgiven. The potential for being unforgiven has been done away with. The risk factor is zero

Salvation is a gift that cannot be taken back. A gift that can be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

You cannot even give it back. You can give it back only if the giver accepts the return. In the case of salvation God has a strict no-return policy.

After salvation, not a single work is required to keep it. God does not even require a constant attitude of faith in order to be saved - only an act of faith. Christians are not saved because we have enduring faith. We are saved because we expressed faith in our enduring Lord.

Some will claim that belief/faith is itself a work, but the Bible shoots that down very quickly:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

The Bible clearly says faith is not a work.

It's 100% Jesus, or not at all.
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Heb 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65,923
#65,923
PS said:
Try again:
Joh 17:20-23 KJV
(20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Click to expand...
its says that they may be one as we are one.

How is that accomplished? By your works?

Thats taking glory for yourself man, Not giving any to Christ, He will not share the glory of working to pay for your salvation man, Stop thinking he will.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#65,924
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#65,924
PS said:
Heb 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Click to expand...
If those verses mean what you think they mean, then you are teaching once lost, always lost.

The author is talking about Jews who have "tasted" the gift, but not fully accepted it. Those who "partook" of the Holy Spirit's convicting ministry, but did not commit. They made a start toward salvation but instead, went back to Judaism. And to remain there means they could not repent and be saved.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,925
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,925
eternally-gratefull said:
its says that they may be one as we are one.

How is that accomplished? By your works?

Thats taking glory for yourself man, Not giving any to Christ, He will not share the glory of working to pay for your salvation man, Stop thinking he will.
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It has nothing to do with works, it has more to do with letting the light shine into the darkness.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65,926
#65,926
PS said:
It has nothing to do with works, it has more to do with letting the light shine into the darkness.
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only Gods light can shine,

and it will only shine in his people

yet it still is not in order to maintian or keep salvation, it is a byproduct of salvation, and God changes us.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,927
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,927
Budman said:
If those verses mean what you think they mean, then you are teaching once lost, always lost.

The author is talking about Jews who have "tasted" the gift, but not fully accepted it. Those who "partook" of the Holy Spirit's convicting ministry, but did not commit. They made a start toward salvation but instead, went back to Judaism. And to remain there means they could not repent and be saved.
Click to expand...
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If they fall away, they are lost. If I fall away, I will be lost, so will anyone. This is why we need to keep pressing towards the mark and not fall by the wayside.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#65,928
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#65,928
PS said:
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If they fall away, they are lost. If I fall away, I will be lost, so will anyone. This is why we need to keep pressing towards the mark and not fall by the wayside.
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Again, if those verses mean what you are claiming, then once lost, no amount of begging, pleading, and seeking after God's mercy, will ever result in salvation. The key word being "impossible".

Do you believe that?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,929
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,929
eternally-gratefull said:
only Gods light can shine,

and it will only shine in his people

yet it still is not in order to maintian or keep salvation, it is a byproduct of salvation, and God changes us.
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Mat 5:14-16 KJV
(14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(15) Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
(16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#65,930
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#65,930
Budman said:
Again, if those verses mean what you are claiming, then once lost, no amount of begging, pleading, and seeking after God's mercy, will ever result in salvation. The key word being "impossible".

Do you believe that?
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If for example we blaspheme the Holy Spirit which is the unforgivable sin, then Yes I do believe those words.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65,931
#65,931
Budman said:
Again, if those verses mean what you are claiming, then once lost, no amount of begging, pleading, and seeking after God's mercy, will ever result in salvation. The key word being "impossible".

Do you believe that?
Click to expand...
he does not understand the complexity of the word if.

The word if can be used multiple ways

if - maybe they will maybe they will not

if - if it were possible, but it is not (they could not even if they tried it is impossible)

if - if and they already have.

Hebrews is talking about returning to law. The law states you can fall away, in fact every year the high priest had to make sacrifice on the day of atonement for everyone who fell away (which would include all of them including himself)

so the author is making a point if they fall away (if it were possible, like the law says) they can never be renewed, (the blood of bul and goat can never remove sin) and saying they can is a discredit to jesus and puts him to open shame, because they crucify him aganin (claim his work was not enough, he has ot return and die again for those sins he missed)
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#65,932
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#65,932
PS said:
The Ten Virgins, including the five who were not prepared, must have (1) believed in the bridegroom, and (2) that the bridegroom was coming or they wouldn't have been waiting.

So, it seems that (1) we cannot assume eternal salvation, and (2) the un-preparedness of the five suggests they failed to run the race to the end.
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You do stretch your opinions to the very end, and your bias shows to prove you can lose your "eternal salvation." Weddings around the world have bridesmaids who may or may not be saved; you do not need to be saved to be a bridesmaid in a wedding. This is true today and it was true in Jesus days.

The bible is silent about the salvation of "the five" without oil. When the bible is silent about an issue so should we be. This is basic rules of "Interpretation" 101. Your interpretation of this passage is wrong and so your application of this passage is wrong.

Eternal Salvation is eternal and very much supported by the bible.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65,933
#65,933
PS said:
Mat 5:14-16 KJV
(14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(15) Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
(16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Click to expand...
You go ahead and try to let your light shine my friend

I will let Gods light shine through me.

I can do nothing of my own power. My works are as filthy rags.

when you realise this, you will realise, as has many, this basic truth.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65,934
#65,934
PS said:
If for example we blaspheme the Holy Spirit which is the unforgivable sin, then Yes I do believe those words.
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yes it is, the sin of unbelief,

Yet the bible says whoever does that is condemned already, not that they were saved, and fell back into condemnation.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#65,935
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#65,935
PS said:
If for example we blaspheme the Holy Spirit which is the unforgivable sin, then Yes I do believe those words.
Click to expand...
Funny thing is, God said that once He has given us eternal life, we can never perish, nor can anyone snatch us out of His hand. Nothing in "all creation" can. That means not even ourselves. (John 10:28, Romans 8:38-39)

Are you a created being?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#65,936
#65,936
Budman said:
So many people miss the simplicity of the gospel.

Charles Stanley wrote:

Christians cannot be lost because we have no sins left to pay for. 100% of sins have been forgiven. The potential for being unforgiven has been done away with. The risk factor is zero

Salvation is a gift that cannot be taken back. A gift that can be taken back is no gift at all. True gifts have no strings attached. Once you place a condition of any kind on a gift, it becomes a trade, not a gift.

You cannot even give it back. You can give it back only if the giver accepts the return. In the case of salvation God has a strict no-return policy.

After salvation, not a single work is required to keep it. God does not even require a constant attitude of faith in order to be saved - only an act of faith. Christians are not saved because we have enduring faith. We are saved because we expressed faith in our enduring Lord.

Some will claim that belief/faith is itself a work, but the Bible shoots that down very quickly:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

The Bible clearly says faith is not a work.

It's 100% Jesus, or not at all.
Click to expand...

heyyyyy bro

missed ya

glad to see you back fighting for the truth
 
O

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
#65,938
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
#65,938
PS said:
The Ten Virgins, including the five who were not prepared, must have (1) believed in the bridegroom, and (2) that the bridegroom was coming or they wouldn't have been waiting.

So, it seems that (1) we cannot assume eternal salvation, and (2) the un-preparedness of the five suggests they failed to run the race to the end.
Click to expand...
I read what you are saying there. What do you believe about your status as a Christian? What do you see as your presence in Christ? And how do you see your future come the judgment?
Thank you for reading me. And if you choose, for taking the time to share your personal testimony in response.
 
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