The Heresy of Annihilationism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#21
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#21
Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the law. That word means to disintegrate.

“Do not think that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17​

G2647 καταλύω kataluo (kat-al-oo'-o) v.
1. to loosen down (disintegrate)

Jesus said that GOD can destroy body and soul in hell. Same word? Nope. That word ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi) is used in these two verses

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28​
​
And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the new wine will burst the wineskins, and it will be spilled and the wineskins will be destroyed. Luke 5:37​
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#22
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#22
Thank you for all the post and for those who disagree again you did not provide Biblical proof to refute you tried to explain the Biblical proof that was given . Jesus is the Authority on the topic not me. Annihilationism is easy to debunk because Jesus did .


here is the list of over whelming proof of the context of hell. those who hold to annihilation theory do so with human reasoning and conjecture. These give example of earthly judgement and courts while forgetting Gods ways are not mans ways

Is 55:8-9

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

those supportive of this theory of "annihilation" too dismiss the words of Jesus concerning hell because some of what HE said were Parables. Mainly in Luke chapter 16 . That is because they do not have discernment or remember what Jesus Himself said about Parables . What is a Parable? More importantly When Jesus said them were they important ?
When Jesus said Parables:
The parables are used in giving one or more instructional lessons or principles and can be an allegory and may include inanimate objects (like trees, plants, or things) or people in various societal positions.

Jesus clearly gives parables to hide the meaning from those whose hearts are hardened. Some of the parables are hard to understand but they frequently serve as object lessons that use experiences from life to clearly communicate a meaning for Jesus’ teachings.

Now back to the context of Hell Biblically
When Jesus spoke about hell we must look at everything HE said about hell and draw understanding from that... all of it.
IF Jesus just used the Parable in Luke 16 concerning hell " Lazarus & a certain Rich man" they might have point , BUT that is not the case . We must take all Jesus said and the parables concerning Hell, if we do that the context of hell becomes very clear to the person who is open to what the word of God is saying as it has said it. pray and read what Jesus said about hell ALL of what HE said : this is good place to start:


  • God made Hell because of who he is - holy, holy, holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8) - and thus is too pure to look upon sin (Hab 1:13).
  • (2) God is love (1 John 4:7-8) and while he spoke more concerning Heaven than he did Hell, in his holiness and honesty Jesus spoke about Hell (i.e. Gehenna) a considerable amount of times too - since he is the Word, Jesus is actually the author of every usage of Hell in the Bible (Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; parallels to the same; Matt 7:21-23; 8:12; 13:42; 24:29-31, 45-51; 25:30-32, 41-46; Rev 2:11, etc.).
  • (3) God is the Judge and sends the unsaved to Hell (Matt 25:41; 2 Pet 2:4, 9).
  • (4) In another sense, people send themselves to Hell, as they willing sin against God (Rom 2:5; 3:23; 1 Cor 6:9).
  • (5) Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt 25:41), but Satan's seed (Gen 3:15) will spend eternity there as well (Rev 20:14).
  • (6) Hell is a place where one can never stop sinning (Rom 8:7-8; Rev 21:8; 22:14-15). Since the sinners in Hell keep sinning there is perpetual punishment.
  • (7) Hell is a waterless place with no exit (Luke 16:24-26).
  • (8) Hell is a bottomless pit (Rev 20:1).
  • (9) Hell is a lake of fire into which the wicked will be cast alive forever (Rev 19:20; 20:15).
  • (10) Hell is a place of eternal torments (Luke 16:23).
  • (11) Hell is a place of everlasting punishment (Matt 25:46).
  • (12) Hell is a place of everlasting destruction from the presence of God (2 Thess 1:6-10).
  • (13) Hell is a place of being cut into pieces (Matt 24:51).
  • (14) Hell is a place where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48).
  • (15) Hell is a place of outer darkness, of weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25:30).
  • (16) It's not enough for God to take us out of Hell; he must remove Hell out of us; and thus he sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of his people (Rom 5:8; Jude 1:23; John 1:29).
God bless
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
2tim 2:15
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#23
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#23
CS1 said:
Thank you for all the post and for those who disagree again you did not provide Biblical proof to refute you tried to explain the Biblical proof that was given . Jesus is the Authority on the topic not me. Annihilationism is easy to debunk because Jesus did .


here is the list of over whelming proof of the context of hell. those who hold to annihilation theory do so with human reasoning and conjecture. These give example of earthly judgement and courts while forgetting Gods ways are not mans ways

Is 55:8-9

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

those supportive of this theory of "annihilation" too dismiss the words of Jesus concerning hell because some of what HE said were Parables. Mainly in Luke chapter 16 . That is because they do not have discernment or remember what Jesus Himself said about Parables . What is a Parable? More importantly When Jesus said them were they important ?
When Jesus said Parables:
The parables are used in giving one or more instructional lessons or principles and can be an allegory and may include inanimate objects (like trees, plants, or things) or people in various societal positions.

Jesus clearly gives parables to hide the meaning from those whose hearts are hardened. Some of the parables are hard to understand but they frequently serve as object lessons that use experiences from life to clearly communicate a meaning for Jesus’ teachings.

Now back to the context of Hell Biblically
When Jesus spoke about hell we must look at everything HE said about hell and draw understanding from that... all of it.
IF Jesus just used the Parable in Luke 16 concerning hell " Lazarus & a certain Rich man" they might have point , BUT that is not the case . We must take all Jesus said and the parables concerning Hell, if we do that the context of hell becomes very clear to the person who is open to what the word of God is saying as it has said it. pray and read what Jesus said about hell ALL of what HE said : this is good place to start:


  • God made Hell because of who he is - holy, holy, holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8) - and thus is too pure to look upon sin (Hab 1:13).
  • (2) God is love (1 John 4:7-8) and while he spoke more concerning Heaven than he did Hell, in his holiness and honesty Jesus spoke about Hell (i.e. Gehenna) a considerable amount of times too - since he is the Word, Jesus is actually the author of every usage of Hell in the Bible (Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; parallels to the same; Matt 7:21-23; 8:12; 13:42; 24:29-31, 45-51; 25:30-32, 41-46; Rev 2:11, etc.).
  • (3) God is the Judge and sends the unsaved to Hell (Matt 25:41; 2 Pet 2:4, 9).
  • (4) In another sense, people send themselves to Hell, as they willing sin against God (Rom 2:5; 3:23; 1 Cor 6:9).
  • (5) Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt 25:41), but Satan's seed (Gen 3:15) will spend eternity there as well (Rev 20:14).
  • (6) Hell is a place where one can never stop sinning (Rom 8:7-8; Rev 21:8; 22:14-15). Since the sinners in Hell keep sinning there is perpetual punishment.
  • (7) Hell is a waterless place with no exit (Luke 16:24-26).
  • (8) Hell is a bottomless pit (Rev 20:1).
  • (9) Hell is a lake of fire into which the wicked will be cast alive forever (Rev 19:20; 20:15).
  • (10) Hell is a place of eternal torments (Luke 16:23).
  • (11) Hell is a place of everlasting punishment (Matt 25:46).
  • (12) Hell is a place of everlasting destruction from the presence of God (2 Thess 1:6-10).
  • (13) Hell is a place of being cut into pieces (Matt 24:51).
  • (14) Hell is a place where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48).
  • (15) Hell is a place of outer darkness, of weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25:30).
  • (16) It's not enough for God to take us out of Hell; he must remove Hell out of us; and thus he sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of his people (Rom 5:8; Jude 1:23; John 1:29).
God bless
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
2tim 2:15
Click to expand...
We agree on this doctrine. Simply if life is eternal and God is eternal then His wrath upon sin is eternal. Makes the pleasures of sin for a season seem more than a little foolish.

Mt 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#24
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#24
notuptome said:
We agree on this doctrine. Simply if life is eternal and God is eternal then His wrath upon sin is eternal. Makes the pleasures of sin for a season seem more than a little foolish.

Mt 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Thank you however, I think it is important that note That it is Jesus Himself who disproves this theory of Annihilationism
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#25
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#25
CS1 said:
Thank you however, I think it is important that note That it is Jesus Himself who disproves this theory of Annihilationism
Click to expand...
No argument here.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#26
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#26
You know, the verse says to not fear a man who can destroy your body but to fear God who can destroy BOTH body and soul in hell.

Some argue that a soul= mind, emotions and spirit.

In that case, destroying the soul in hell would include destroying the spirit in hell.

Not to say that I think men are born with an eternal spirit inside them, because I don't, but I don't quite grasp where the leap is made that it is only the resurrected body that is destroyed in the second death. Whatever your definition of soul is, that is what is being said will be destroyed.
 
C

claysmithr

Guest
#27
#27
shrume said:
That's an assertion with no backing.


The Lord is the authority on the topic. He never taught that people will burn alive in hell forever.


God most certainly is holy. He created man to fellowship with Him. He gave us free will. He needed a way to assure that when it's all said and done, the final state of things will not have anyone there who is evil. So He made a rule: "The wages of sin is death".


Read each one of those scripture carefully, and do not read your beliefs into what they say. NONE of them say that unsaved people will burn alive in hell forever.


The unsaved will be sentenced to die the second death, which will be permanent.


All of us willingly sin against God at times. We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Those who are not saved will be thrown into the lake of fire, and destroyed.


The Lake of fire will eventually burn whatever is thrown into it up.


This is a whole new demonstration of ignorance. God is love, and He wants people to STOP sinning. You are declaring that God is going to put the unsaved into a place where they cannot stop sinning, and allow them to be tortured forever because of something they are unable to stop doing. This is worse than Calvinism.


Luke 16:19ff is a parable.


The abyss in Rev 20:1 is not the lake of fire. It is likely Tartarus, where Satan will be locked up during the millennial kingdom.


Those verses do not say they will be alive forever in the lake of fire.


Luke 16:19ff is a parable.


Yes, the second death will be permanent. There will be no coming back from the second death.


Yes, the second death will be permanent. There will be no coming back from the second death.


Signifying destruction.


Yes, the destruction in the lake of fire will be complete.


There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth as people realize what it about to happen to them. Once they are destroyed, they will be silent, they will be dead.


Where does the Bible say ANYTHING about God removing hell out of us?


That is generally true.


I am not a member of any of those denominations, nor do I know any of those people. I believe what the Bible says, that the wages of sin is death.


What would those be, CS1?


Useless for defending your belief. The guy just makes assertions about the definition of those words.

There were already two active threads on this topic. Why did you start a third?

Please let us all know if the administrators of this website decide to make believing in and teaching annihilation a bannable offense. If they do, then I'll stop posting about it. Until that happens, I will not be silent.
Click to expand...
We are made in the image of God, therefore part of us is eternal, and not able to die or be annihilated, just like God cannot die or be annihilated. While it may be feasible for God to annihilate us, ultimately it's against God's life-giving attributes and nature, and God doesn't revoke his gift of life.

The Lazarus example Jesus uses is not a parable, because it uses real names, pointing to an example that actually occurred.

The statement "The Lake of fire will eventually burn whatever is thrown into it up," is not scriptural. Scripture points to their torment "forever and ever", which cannot be true if they cease to exist at any time.
 
C

claysmithr

Guest
#28
#28
Stunnedbygrace said:
You know, the verse says to not fear a man who can destroy your body but to fear God who can destroy BOTH body and soul in hell.

Some argue that a soul= mind, emotions and spirit.

In that case, destroying the soul in hell would include destroying the spirit in hell.

Not to say that I think men are born with an eternal spirit inside them, because I don't, but I don't quite grasp where the leap is made that it is only the resurrected body that is destroyed in the second death. Whatever your definition of soul is, that is what is being said will be destroyed.
Click to expand...
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/251-will-wicked-people-be-annihilated-in-hell

DESTROY != ANNIHILATE

Destroy = Lost, or Perish
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#31
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#31
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#32
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#32
Stunnedbygrace said:
No, I didn't even notice the website.
I was agreeing with what he wrote, that destroy means annihilate, loss of life, perish...
Click to expand...
well thats to bad it was Biblical :)
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#33
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#33
Stunnedbygrace said:
You know, the verse says to not fear a man who can destroy your body but to fear God who can destroy BOTH body and soul in hell.

Some argue that a soul= mind, emotions and spirit.

In that case, destroying the soul in hell would include destroying the spirit in hell.

Not to say that I think men are born with an eternal spirit inside them, because I don't, but I don't quite grasp where the leap is made that it is only the resurrected body that is destroyed in the second death. Whatever your definition of soul is, that is what is being said will be destroyed.
Click to expand...
When we are saved it is a continuous action. Saved today and being saved through all eternity.

When sinners are destroyed in hell it too is a continuous action. Destroyed today and out through eternity. A continuous state of destruction. Fire that is never quenched and the worm dieth not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#34
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#34
notuptome said:
When we are saved it is a continuous action. Saved today and being saved through all eternity.

When sinners are destroyed in hell it too is a continuous action. Destroyed today and out through eternity. A continuous state of destruction. Fire that is never quenched and the worm dieth not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
I disagree. I don't think death is continuous. I think death is final.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#35
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#35
Stunnedbygrace said:
No, I didn't even notice the website.
I was agreeing with what he wrote, that destroy means annihilate, loss of life, perish...
Click to expand...
You're conflating two meanings to the word destroy.
Stunnedbygrace said:
I disagree. I don't think death is continuous. I think death is final.
Click to expand...
Eternal death just means separation from eternal life, not eternal cessation of awareness. Ample scripture bears this out. Also, the word "destroy" does not mean annihilate in verses describing the consequence of hell, as I demonstrated above.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#36
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#36
Stunnedbygrace said:
I disagree. I don't think death is continuous. I think death is final.
Click to expand...
Ok but the word of God does :) you have a dilemma between what the Word of God says and what you think.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#37
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#37
CS1 said:
Ok but the word of God does :) you have a dilemma between what the Word of God says and what you think.
Click to expand...
No...God does not say death is continuous. He says death is eternal. Eternally dead with no hope of ever changing that.

In fact, the place - hell- that was prepared to house the demons - is thrown into the lake of fire in the end, along with death. Why is death annihilated in that lake of fire but hell and its contents are not?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#39
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#39
Stunnedbygrace said:
The real and true argument here is over whether men are born eternal beings or not.
Click to expand...
No that is deflection from the very topic of " hell" and the Biblical context of it. IF you are conceding to the over whelming scriptural proof of hells eternal existence and those who go there are tormented for ever. You can start your own thread on "born eternal being or not"
Thank you
 
prove-all

prove-all

Senior Member
#40
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#40
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,” Says the Lord of hosts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.