Not By Works

preston39 · Jun 18, 2018

M....,

True once ..."SAVED".....it cannot be lost.
Make sure you understand what that means; ...saved.......means G-d has passed judgement on us and declared us ...saved. To believe otherwise is to usurpt/pre-empt G-d's authority and right to judge us.

Until then we are repented and living a righteous life. We cannot be declared saved (by whom?)....until we have died.

preston39 · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

M...,

OSAS is a new age religion myth.

That belief comes out of the 1960's revolution where the new age religion types can believe themselves to be a christian all the while living a sinful life as they wish.

That is in total conflict with G-d's word and His intent for our life.

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

preston39 said:

Yes, we still have to run the race to the end and then we will be saved. In the meantime we abide in faith and do the necessary works and the Holy Spirit will guide us home

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

preston39 said:

Not once saved always saved. rather once truly saved always saved, we all know there are far more false professors than there are genuine ones.
God is the author and finisher of our faith and he can never fail to finish what he started, so a true Christian can be 100% sure of their salvation.

justpassinthrough · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

Only those who obey His commandments, are those who know Him.

Knowing Him is the definition of eternal life.

by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-5

We have been given a new nature that is empowered by the Spirit, who desires to express righteousness through us.

That is what the Christian life is about, walking according to the Spirit, which is another way of saying, faith expressing itself by love.

If we have His Life within us, we desire to practice righteousness, rather than practicing the works of the flesh.

Does that mean we won't ever sin while we are learning to cooperate with the Spirit? No.

But we can learn and mature as His Life developes within us and we grow up into Him, in the fullness and stature of His complete pattern.

Paul says it like this -

Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Born again Christians, have a new divine nature, that is empowered by the Spirit [if they have received the Spirit Baptism] which means we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.

Peter says it like this -

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness

by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:2-11

Peter lists some things that we are expected to do -

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence:

add to your faith virtue,
to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control,
to self-control perseverance,
to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness love.

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So if we love our brother, we are not going to murder him, or steal from him, or commit adultery with his wife, or covet his things, or lie to him.

However, we are expected to diligently add these virtuous things to our faith, by submitting to the Lord, in which we yield to His life of righteousness and truth, and are empowered with grace from the Spirit.

This takes humility.

This takes giving our attention to His word and His Spirit.

JPT

preston39 · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

"Whosoever loses his life for My sake and the Gospel's will save it", I'm sure He didn't mean to lose ones life in a literal sense although one may very well lose it as well. I think He also meant, we lose our worldly lives when we are saved and follow Him.
To follow Christ costs us everything, so it's like losing the life we had before we started following Christ.
I thought I'd mention that, because most of us probably won't have our lives threatened as a result of following Jesus.[/QUOTE]

m.....,
Given the current experience with the likes of ISIS how can that statement have value?

Also, it is the objective of radical ISLAM to eliminate the Christian.

The pressure on Christians will continue to increase towards total annihilation.... until the rapture occurs.

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Thankfully, the only command that Jesus gave us was to believe in Him.
If we believe in Him we will follow Him, and He will come into our hearts and His Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth and righteousness.
We will never stop sinning while we live in our corrupted bodies, so we rely on the Holy Spirit through faith to keep us from being consumed by our sins.

justpassinthrough · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

Please read these statements from Paul, so we can discuss.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16, 19-21

The Holy Spirit has been given to us, to empower us to live in dominion over sin in our flesh, that desires to express itself.

do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,

present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14

again

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-13

if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JPT

justpassinthrough · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

Do you know what "believe" means?

JPT

eternally-gratefull · Jun 18, 2018

dcontroversal said:

I do not know how you do it bro, the self righteous arrogance of some of these people make me want to puke.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 18, 2018

How do we stop sin?

It is a three fold process

First thing we have to do is be adopted into gods family, based on gods love and mercy, and his sons death, by repenting of our self will and wanting to be our own God, and admittin* to god we have sinned, and fall short, and come to the end of ourselves in humility, much like the tax collector.

Second, after we are saved, we are no more alienated, we are loved (we love because god loved first) so we oearn what sin is, everyone knows adultry is a sin, even the non believer, but what causes adultry, this is the bases to understanding how sinful we really are (what is sin? It is putting the needs of self above god and others.)

Third, we learn what empowers us to overcome the lusts of the flesh (serving others), by obeying the law of love and the spirit, as jesus said, we fulfill the law by loving him first and formost, and then loving our neighbor, who he says is even our enemy. Then seeking out the things of the spirit, setting our minds on the things of god, and not worrying about the things i need, or i want, or worrying about who is against me, or what i may miss out on.

The first process is salvation

The second and third are processes of sanctification.

The first is a completed deal (he has by one sacrifice perfected forever...)

The second and third take time, some more than others, we start off as babes in christ and learn to grow as he works in our life to be those who are “being sanctified” as we remember and keepmfaith in one thing, “he who begun a good work in us will complete it”. God will finish it, do not let people, satan or your flesh attack you, trust God, he will do it.

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

Yep, it means to believe in Him. That doesn't mean to believe He exists, it means to believe every word He says and obey it

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

How do we stop sin?

It is a three fold process

First thing we have to do is be adopted into gods family, based on gods love and mercy, and his sons death, by repenting of our self will and wanting to be our own God, and admittin* to god we have sinned, and fall short, and come to the end of ourselves in humility, much like the tax collector.

Second, after we are saved, we are no more alienated, we are loved (we love because god loved first) so we oearn what sin is, everyone knows adultry is a sin, even the non believer, but what causes adultry, this is the bases to understanding how sinful we really are (what is sin? It is putting the needs of self above god and others.)

Third, we learn what empowers us to overcome the lusts of the flesh (serving others), by obeying the law of love and the spirit, as jesus said, we fulfill the law by loving him first and formost, and then loving our neighbor, who he says is even our enemy. Then seeking out the things of the spirit, setting our minds on the things of god, and not worrying about the things i need, or i want, or worrying about who is against me, or what i may miss out on.

The first process is salvation

The second and third are processes of sanctification.

The first is a completed deal (he has by one sacrifice perfected forever...)

The second and third take time, some more than others, we start off as babes in christ and learn to grow as he works in our life to be those who are “being sanctified” as we remember and keepmfaith in one thing, “he who begun a good work in us will complete it”. God will finish it, do not let people, satan or your flesh attack you, trust God, he will do it.

We don't have any power over sin so we can't stop sinning. Only God has the power over sin, we will continue to sin until the day we die and you know it's true

eternally-gratefull · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

which is why we have to be SAVED FIRST. It is not a process of being saved by our own power of being obedient like many in here are proclaiming

which is what I said.

Jesus said if we want to obey the law. We must use the law of love, WE LOVE BECAUSE GOD LOVED US FIRST (God empowers not us)

Pauls said seek after the things of the spirit, and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh (Again, Gods power not us, But we have to seek those things, if we seek the flesh, we will be tempted to sin, and if lust continues, it will fall to sin, Thats why we must strive to be focused on God.

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes Sir, we must put on the whole Armour of God. We can't go into battle in this fallen world and our fallen nature without the full Armour of God. He has given us all the warnings and commandments to make us wise onto salvation, so we must strive to obey every Word of God

TruthTalk · Jun 18, 2018

justpassinthrough said:

We are saved the moment we believe. The imputed righteousness of Christ and God pronounces a born again believer innocent.
Your gospel is a self-righteous, I can save myself "false gospel" Repent.

True Gospel
"We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us,
so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2Corinthians5:20,21

The Imputed Righteousness of Christ

eternally-gratefull · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

yes, but we also must not be arrogant and think we have made it, but continue to run the race as paul said.

I see it this way, If aul never made it, I would be foolish and arrogant to think I have made it!

MarkWilliams · Jun 18, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

That's good advice, we can't afford to relax for a moment. We must be on our guard at all times, the evil one is roaming around like a hungry lion. We can easily fall into a false sense of security, when we think that we are safe in our salvation and God will keep us safe to the end.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 18, 2018

MarkWilliams said:

sadly, that is what these sinless perfectionist want to share with the world. that is not what the bible teaches, and they need help.

VCO · Jun 18, 2018

preston39 said:

And you are repeating LIES without even realizing it. You NEED to ask us what we believe about SALVATION, instead of repeating the Lies taught to you by a false teacher. No, I am not mad, but I do want you teach you what we ACTUALLY BELIEVE, when what you just stated is as far from the TRUTH as you can get.

First of all, you NEED to properly interpret the Parable of the SOWER. ONLY ONE TYPE OF SOIL IS A REAL CHRISTIAN THAT IS BORN AGAIN.

Mark 4:13-20(CSBBible)
13 Then he said to them: "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand all of the parables?
14 The sower sows the word.
15 Some are like the word sown on the path. When they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word sown in them.
16 And others are like seed sown on rocky ground. When they hear the word, immediately they receive it with joy.
17 But they have no root; they are short-lived. When distress or persecution comes because of the word, they immediately fall away.
18 Others are like seed sown among thorns; these are the ones who hear the word,
19 but the worries of this age, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
20 And those like seed sown on good ground hear the word, welcome it, and produce fruit thirty, sixty, and a hundred times what was sown."

You can see, ONLY THE LAST SOIL MENTIONED is a true Born Again Christian. The first type of soil is a stone cold Unbeliever, and the NEXT TWO are those that start off as Church going Pretend Christians, but fall away. Why do we put up with phony Christians in our Midst? BECAUSE OUR LORD WILL TAKE SOME, AS THEY ARE TAUGHT THE WORD, and bring some to become genuine Born Again Christians.

A TRULY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN is one that: really mourning and repenting over your utterly sinful life, genuinely letting HIM control your LIFE, having the Holy Spirit pouring GOD's LOVE directly into our HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, and LETTING HIM birth our HUMAN SPIRIT into ETERNAL LIFE.

Our Beliefs are only Born Again Christians, while those without being born again, HE or SHE WERE NEVER SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE, he was only a Pretend Christian.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

2 John 1:1-2 (HCSB)
1 The Elder: To the elect lady and her children: I love all of you in the truth—and not only I, but also all who have come to know the truth—
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

1 Peter 1:3-5 (NIV)
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

NO, a truly Born Again Christian, is the ONE who is SHIELDED BY GOD'S POWER. Our Faith NEVER FADES, Our Belief in the TRUTH always Remains With US and WILL BE WITH US FOREVER. We have GOD's LOVE poured into our HEARTS by the HOLY SPIRIT, and it Produces that LOVE and Faith that will NEVER END.

What about those you THINK they lost their SALVATION? They Never Had it in the FIRST PLACE. THEY are the MANY that JESUS DESCRIBES HERE:

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

WE have GOD's LOVE poured into our hearts the MOMENT OF GENUINE SALVATION, and IT WILL PRODUCE A HARVEST OF LOVE, and obedience is LOVE FOR GOD and Our Christian Brothers. NO ANDS, IFS, OR EVEN MAYBES. It is NOT PART OF SALVATION, IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

The Other Church Goers, NEVER came through the NARROW GATE, repenting of their utterly sinful life, and thereby LOVINGLY RECEIVING JESUS AS LORD, meaning MASTER.

That is OUR BELIEFS, and you to can Receive HIM too.

COME!

Not By Works

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Active member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Senior Member

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Active member

Active member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Active member

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Active member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member