Not By Works
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It seems like a silly, hypothetical question. And I am not sure WHY you would ask it. But, I do not think it would be normal for Born Again Christian to even consider renouncing CHRIST. If they want to shoot me, I am ready to go HOME! Martyrdom advances the cause of CHRIST!
It happened before, and it will happen again.
Here is the Letter to the PERSECUTED CHURCH at Smyrna:
Revelation 2:8-11 (HCSB)
8 “Write to the angel of the church in Smyrna: “The First and the Last, the One who was dead and came to life, says:
9 I know your affliction and poverty, yet you are rich. ⌊I know⌋ the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
10 Don’t be afraid of what you are about to suffer. Look, the Devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will have affliction for 10 days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. The victor will never be harmed by the second death.
NOTICE: There is NO CONDEMNATION for the Persecuted Church. Most of the Letters to the Churches, have condemnation for what they are doing wrong, but NOT the SMYRNA Church, nor the Philadelphia Church. The REASON there is NO Condemnation for the Persecuted Church, is BECAUSE THE MINUTE THE PERSECUTION STARTS, the phony, non-born again Believers GET OUT. So perhaps a BETTER analogy to make, is "Would you remain in a Church where all your Neighbors made Fun of you for worshiping there?" It don't take much of the Persecution, to start getting the Phonies OUT.
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Born sinless and no longer cursed by our sins after conquering sin and death.
I would say, "Thank you Lord for taking the curse of my sins upon yourself so that I might be redeemed from the curse of the law and made right with God." (2Co 5:21) Now, Jesus the purified one after conquering the curse of sin saves all those who come to Him believing. Jesus, who is alive for evermore having conquered death, has the keys of heaven and hell and in the context of the thread quite simply it is Jesus who saves us from our sin and not our works. "There is life for a look at the crucified one."
I would say, "Thank you Lord for taking the curse of my sins upon yourself so that I might be redeemed from the curse of the law and made right with God." (2Co 5:21) Now, Jesus the purified one after conquering the curse of sin saves all those who come to Him believing. Jesus, who is alive for evermore having conquered death, has the keys of heaven and hell and in the context of the thread quite simply it is Jesus who saves us from our sin and not our works. "There is life for a look at the crucified one."
Back by popular demand. 
I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up
We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly
I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up
We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly
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Amen!
I agree.
However, things are going to get ugly on planet earth, before that glorious Day when the Lord returns.
It’s when they have your family and the gun is pointed at your little daughter or grand daughter, that things get real.
The enemy is merciless and cunning, full of rage, knowing his time is short.
Jesus said it this way -
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up anddeceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdomwill be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:9-14
Can we still love our brother, who out of fear or greed, turned in our family so that the situation where the gun is pointed at our family in hopes of getting us to turn away from Christ are successful ?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
We in America haven’t had to face this kind of persecution... yet.
Are we ready?
JPT
I agree.
However, things are going to get ugly on planet earth, before that glorious Day when the Lord returns.
It’s when they have your family and the gun is pointed at your little daughter or grand daughter, that things get real.
The enemy is merciless and cunning, full of rage, knowing his time is short.
Jesus said it this way -
- because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up anddeceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdomwill be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:9-14
Can we still love our brother, who out of fear or greed, turned in our family so that the situation where the gun is pointed at our family in hopes of getting us to turn away from Christ are successful ?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
We in America haven’t had to face this kind of persecution... yet.
Are we ready?
JPT
E
I am so sick of hypotheticals which do nothing to support ones cause, yet force people to try to be God and judge someones salvation because of some sin, who gave us the right or ability to cast stones (judge a person) when we deaerve to be judged ourselves (let he who has no sin casr first stone) yet people want to be stone throwers, or demand we cast stones ourselves.
E
Back by popular demand.
I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up
We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly
I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up
We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly
E
Before you start crying wolf you should take responsibility for yourself slandering others,
And your in sin demanding someone who would be judged himself judge anoher person who has sinned.
And while we are at it, if you have kids, its good to know if out of fear if they renounce you as their oarent you will disown them as your children.
And your in sin demanding someone who would be judged himself judge anoher person who has sinned.
And while we are at it, if you have kids, its good to know if out of fear if they renounce you as their oarent you will disown them as your children.
N
i personally used to be a sinless perfectionist....
i thought of many brothers and sisters here were wicked sinners on the way to hell
i used to insult and accuse some of them too...
after constant debate from people who did not seem to be lying about what they believe or twist my words and making so much sense.....
even though i spent years in study
sometimes 15 hours a day
i realized.... there was a slim chance..... maybe... i was wrong
i think this was God using brothers and sisters to plant seeds of truth in me
some harshly
some were gentle
some went back and forth
some were just in the middle and non-stop
so even as a stubborn rude self righteous young man who thought i was ready to be a preacher to the world
i layed everything i thought i knew back at Gods feet
many sleepless nights
many tears
many prayers
and many hours of study later
bit by bit
begging God to show me the truth
asking to only see what He wants me to see
asking to be delivered from itching ears
asking to be delivered from my own understanding if it is incorrect
and asking for truth
He broke my false gospel from me.....
this thread was one of the many tools God used to not only reprove and chasten me
God used it to bring me assurance and give me truth
not only me
i have personally seen God use this site as a tool for many to grow from what has been said here
i can pull up many posts of me calling brothers and sisters here sin loving liars from when i thought our own walk saved us and others pointed to Jesus
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N
this is me trying to suggest the changes God makes in us
make it so we eventually stop sinning...
i was also looking to suggest if you do indeed sin
you are no longer saved
this is dcon sticking to the meat and bread of the topic.... only seeing me poke at the truth (we are saved by Jesus... not self) and not knowing where i stand but having a feel for it
he set up the next argument.....
"void of works" to say to me
"do you understand He saves and keeps His children save by HIS GRACE through faith and not according to your walk"
this is me claiming in a subtle way he is not a son of God.... not a new man but a lost man blinded for love of sin
now dcon sees that i reject the truth and was a cunning type of man who was making broad statements to earn favor of those who saw the conversation
so he layed it all on the table
this was tame
but on my earlier account
and on nonamemcgee
i went after him maybe 8 times in total openly
but it was one of the times i tried to accuse him
then believed in my heart i was wrong not wanting to lie to myself or lie about him (lose my salvation from what i believed)
some of my attempts to show if you sin you are not saved would be like
"can a good tree produce bad fruit?"
then follow with word games to those who answered me
(much like i see some of those still in the same error i was in do)
make it so we eventually stop sinning...
i was also looking to suggest if you do indeed sin
you are no longer saved
this is dcon sticking to the meat and bread of the topic.... only seeing me poke at the truth (we are saved by Jesus... not self) and not knowing where i stand but having a feel for it
he set up the next argument.....
"void of works" to say to me
"do you understand He saves and keeps His children save by HIS GRACE through faith and not according to your walk"
this is me claiming in a subtle way he is not a son of God.... not a new man but a lost man blinded for love of sin
now dcon sees that i reject the truth and was a cunning type of man who was making broad statements to earn favor of those who saw the conversation
so he layed it all on the table
this was tame
but on my earlier account
and on nonamemcgee
i went after him maybe 8 times in total openly
but it was one of the times i tried to accuse him
then believed in my heart i was wrong not wanting to lie to myself or lie about him (lose my salvation from what i believed)
some of my attempts to show if you sin you are not saved would be like
"can a good tree produce bad fruit?"
then follow with word games to those who answered me
(much like i see some of those still in the same error i was in do)
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I appreciate your honesty.....one of a few willing to openly admit to their incorrect view that was changed by God, the word and those whom he used to lay it out....The thing with you was simple....you were (enlarged) open to learning and instruction and God blessed you because of it......!!
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I’m glad that this thread has helped you in your walk with Christ , however I do also think that it’s very dangerous for some of us to be arguing over Gods Holy Word especially when there are very new Christian brothers & sisters who have come through and have read some of the replies in here, in this thread....... it can be very discouraging for them.
I’m sure there’s more positive than negative posts in here (I hope), but during the times I’ve popped in, I’ve only read debates lol.
I’ve said what I need to say and now, I shall depart. May the peace of Jesus be with us all.
, however I do also think that it’s very dangerous for some of us to be arguing over Gods Holy Word especially when there are very new Christian brothers & sisters who have come through and have read some of the replies in here, in this thread....... it can be very discouraging for them. I’m sure there’s more positive than negative posts in here (I hope), but during the times I’ve popped in, I’ve only read debates lol.
I’ve said what I need to say and now, I shall depart. May the peace of Jesus be with us all.
My son is the perfect example. He was going to church and I thought he had a good handle on God and Jesus and had his eyes on the cross, was baptized in the spirit and in a water baptism and was a good person.
But one night at a party, somebody showed him a website that depicted Jesus not as the loving God, but as a monster. I knew something was wrong within a couple of weeks, it bothered him so much. He didn't tell me until years later why he finally gave up his witness to Jesus Christ.
For years, he hung out with people that knew not Jesus and in fact hated Jesus. So they searched the internet to prove that Jesus was a man made entity etc., etc., etc. And today he is still a good boy, but we can not talk too much about Jesus. So in my mind, my son is treading on thin ice. He once accepted and even confessed Jesus and now he does not. I fear for his eternal life.
Millions of Christians around the world are being subjected to this barrage of disinformation about God and Jesus, and they are leaving the church and turning their backs on Jesus. I fear for their eternal Lives.
Jesus is all about repentance and forgiveness, so I do not give up hope, but if my son does not repent and come back to Jesus, I fear he will be lost.
Do not ever give up hope. Remain faithfful, and let Jesus do his good works.
But one night at a party, somebody showed him a website that depicted Jesus not as the loving God, but as a monster. I knew something was wrong within a couple of weeks, it bothered him so much. He didn't tell me until years later why he finally gave up his witness to Jesus Christ.
For years, he hung out with people that knew not Jesus and in fact hated Jesus. So they searched the internet to prove that Jesus was a man made entity etc., etc., etc. And today he is still a good boy, but we can not talk too much about Jesus. So in my mind, my son is treading on thin ice. He once accepted and even confessed Jesus and now he does not. I fear for his eternal life.
Millions of Christians around the world are being subjected to this barrage of disinformation about God and Jesus, and they are leaving the church and turning their backs on Jesus. I fear for their eternal Lives.
Jesus is all about repentance and forgiveness, so I do not give up hope, but if my son does not repent and come back to Jesus, I fear he will be lost.
Do not ever give up hope. Remain faithfful, and let Jesus do his good works.
E
I’m glad that this thread has helped you in your walk with Christ , however I do also think that it’s very dangerous for some of us to be arguing over Gods Holy Word especially when there are very new Christian brothers & sisters who have come through and have read some of the replies in here, in this thread....... it can be very discouraging for them.
I’m sure there’s more positive than negative posts in here (I hope), but during the times I’ve popped in, I’ve only read debates lol.
I’ve said what I need to say and now, I shall depart. May the peace of Jesus be with us all.
, however I do also think that it’s very dangerous for some of us to be arguing over Gods Holy Word especially when there are very new Christian brothers & sisters who have come through and have read some of the replies in here, in this thread....... it can be very discouraging for them.I’m sure there’s more positive than negative posts in here (I hope), but during the times I’ve popped in, I’ve only read debates lol.
I’ve said what I need to say and now, I shall depart. May the peace of Jesus be with us all.
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