Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[OneFaith]

In a job in this world, labor can earn a paycheck. A kid doing his chores can earn a trip to the zoo. A teenager raking leaves can earn an allowance from his parents. But obeying God cannot earn grace. Therefore, God can choose obedience as His choice of who to give grace to, because obedience cannot earn it. Now if the scripture said won't earn it, then that means it can earn but God will not accept that form of payment. That is NOT the case. Our obedience does not earn grace, but God will not give it to those who don't obey.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In a job in this world, labor can earn a paycheck. A kid doing his chores can earn a trip to the zoo. A teenager raking leaves can earn an allowance from his parents. But obeying God cannot earn grace. Therefore, God can choose obedience as His choice of who to give grace to, because obedience cannot earn it. Now if the scripture said won't earn it, then that means it can earn but God will not accept that form of payment. That is NOT the case. Our obedience does not earn grace, but God will not give it to those who don't obey.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

If God gives grace and makes obedience a prerequisite in handing out his grace, he is being deceptive, because as his word says, if it is grace it is no longer of works, otherwise Grace is no longer grace, if it is works, it is no longer grace otherwise work is no longer work. (rom 11), in reality, if what you say is true, He is not saving based on grace, he is saving based on works.

Of course, in the same token, God demand is that we place our faith and receive his gift out of repentance and faith, Those who have faith will work, If God does not give salvation to people who do not work, and that is the reason, then he is going against his own promise and his own word. because it is not through faith we are saved, but through obedience (works)

He does not save those who have not trusted him, It has nothing to do with those who do not work.

You can not say you must be saved by faith, and you can never earn it, then turn around and say but if you do not obey, You will not be saved. You just contradicted yourself

You people need to focus on true repentance and true faith, And get off this works trip. That's what gets you into trouble.

 

[preston39]

Well the answer is in the next verse, which mentions a crown. Crowns are rewards and there are seven crowns mentioned in the NT. The *crown* was really the laurel wreath given to Olympic champions at that time as a prize, and used here for heavenly crowns or rewards which Christians will receive for faithful service. This has nothing to do with salvation -- which is a gift -- being a prize.

/

N...,

I am aware of 5 crowns...what are the other two?

 

[mailmandan]

It is not a straw man to say salvation is a gift, It is fact.

The wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life (salvation) in Jesus Christ our lord.

That is scripture. not a persons idea to fit some doctrinal position.

It is not a straw man to say salvation is a gift, It is fact.

The wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life (salvation) in Jesus Christ our lord.

That is scripture. not a persons idea to fit some doctrinal position.

Amen! Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God. (AMPC)

 

[PS]

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is the first step in a lifetime journey with Christ. The free gift of salvation caused Paul to suffer many trials, troubles, and hardships. It was a constant struggle, but he battled through and overcame. For that he will receive a Crown of Glory as will all overcomer's who will likewise:-

1. eat of the tree of life
2. not experiance the second death
3. receive a new name
4. have power over the nations
5. will not be blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life.
6. will sit with Jesus
7. shall inherit all things

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev_2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev_2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Rev_21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[OneFaith]

then the gift was never a gift, It was a downpayment (Ie, I will give you the wage now, But you must work to earn it, if you fail to live up to the agreement, I will take the gift back) ie, you recieve the wage in the spirit, and must perfect that wage in the flesh (by your obedience)

A gift can be lost.

 

[OneFaith]

"Whoever sins against Me I will blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. Some translations use the word 'erase'. Either way, it indicates that a person's name can be taken out of the book.

 

[preston39]

"Whoever sins against Me I will blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. Some translations use the word 'erase'. Either way, it indicates that a person's name can be taken out of the book.

O...,

No question...the reason there are two books....The Book of Life....and...The Lamb's Book of Life. We must appear in one of them to be eligible for eternal salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A gift can be lost.

Of course, a TEMPORAL gift can be misplaced.

But we are not talking about a temporal gift. We are talking about promises of God. He is the one who promised to complete the action he started. The gift is giving every day, and it will give for all eternity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Whoever sins against Me I will blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. Some translations use the word 'erase'. Either way, it indicates that a person's name can be taken out of the book.

the book has everyone's name written in it. because Christ paid the debt for all mankind. Of course a name can be blotted out. If not, all men would be saved.

 

[PS]

the book has everyone's name written in it. because Christ paid the debt for all mankind. Of course a name can be blotted out. If not, all men would be saved.

So believing isn't necessary?

Of course believing is necessary. That means, those whose names are blotted out were believers.

That puts an end to OSAS and ES.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So believing isn't necessary?

Of course believing is necessary. That means, those whose names are blotted out were believers.

That puts an end to OSAS and ES.

lol. You make me laugh dude, Laugh at the part you think your sin does not stink, and you can EARN your way to heaven, Laugh at the part you think a person who merely believes in the gospel but does not trust God, is saved, so when they return to their true faith (whatever that might be) you can say they LOST salvation.

And no, Those names blotted out were not believers, they were unbelievers. They were blotted out because they rejected the gospel. and because they rejected the gospel. they lived in sin.

That puts and end to leagalism and NOSAS.

It all fits together nicely, all you have to do is get rid of your preconcieved ideas of what you think is true and just open your mind.

 

[PS]

lol. You make me laugh dude, Laugh at the part you think your sin does not stink, and you can EARN your way to heaven, Laugh at the part you think a person who merely believes in the gospel but does not trust God, is saved, so when they return to their true faith (whatever that might be) you can say they LOST salvation.

And no, Those names blotted out were not believers, they were unbelievers. They were blotted out because they rejected the gospel. and because they rejected the gospel. they lived in sin.
That puts and end to leagalism and NOSAS.
It all fits together nicely, all you have to do is get rid of your preconcieved ideas of what you think is true and just open your mind.

That in red sounds like you. I don't believe any of that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That in red sounds like you.

How can it sound like me? I know my sin stinks, I know apart from grace I will never reach heaven, Because I am guilty as charged. And you can take any moment of any day of any year of any time period in my life up until the day I die, and that will be true. (Because I will have sinned and fall short of Gods standard.) I do not believe salvation can be gained lost gained lost by how good or how righteous I am, I KNOW I will never reach that point.

You on the other hand, evidently feel you can. or you will. or you would never say the things you do.

as for belief and being saved? That also is you, I believe we are not saved until we TRULY repent, and we TRULY entrust our eternity to the hands of a loving father. WHo has made all these promises to those who believe in him, And I trust God will keep those promises.

You believe not only that God will save a person who does not have faith in him, But that god will fail a person to the point someone can lose faith in that same God.

So next time you want to attack with foolish inuendo. I think you need to look at the fact! Because the red is you to a "T" and is NOTHING like me.

 

[PS]

How can it sound like me? I know my sin stinks, I know apart from grace I will never reach heaven, Because I am guilty as charged. And you can take any moment of any day of any year of any time period in my life up until the day I die, and that will be true. (Because I will have sinned and fall short of Gods standard.) I do not believe salvation can be gained lost gained lost by how good or how righteous I am, I KNOW I will never reach that point.

You on the other hand, evidently feel you can. or you will. or you would never say the things you do.

as for belief and being saved? That also is you, I believe we are not saved until we TRULY repent, and we TRULY entrust our eternity to the hands of a loving father. WHo has made all these promises to those who believe in him, And I trust God will keep those promises.

You believe not only that God will save a person who does not have faith in him, But that god will fail a person to the point someone can lose faith in that same God.

So next time you want to attack with foolish inuendo. I think you need to look at the fact! Because the red is you to a "T" and is NOTHING like me.

That reads like someone who is all mixed up.

 

[preston39]

.............I do not believe salvation can be gained lost gained lost by how good or how righteous I am... ....

e...,

That belief is wrong.

That is one of the reasons for the two book.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That reads like someone who is all mixed up.

lol

You can't even explain why you think it speaks of me, Or explain why it does not fit you. All you have us attack an innuendo.

so I will just discontinue my discussions with you, as you have nothing of substance to add.

 

[PS]

lol

You can't even explain why you think it speaks of me, Or explain why it does not fit you. All you have us attack an innuendo.

so I will just discontinue my discussions with you, as you have nothing of substance to add.

I don't think people understand the nature of apostasy. This is from a Wiki article:

Apostasy in Christianity is the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian. The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia meaning defection, departure, revolt or rebellion. It has been described as "a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity. Apostasy is the rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian....

An example would be a Christian who rejects Christianity and all that means, and defects to Islam and the worship of Allah.

This would be to reject everything Christ has done for us and if that same person wanted to return to Jesus after renouncing him, and came back to him a second time, they would be crucifying Jesus over again. Hence we read this in Hebrews 6 and likewise elsewhere.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I am sure in my own mind this is not going to happen to anyone here, so please people, keep calm and don't upset yourselves, we are all safe in the arms of Jesus. In Christian love.

 

[fredoheaven]

I don't think people understand the nature of apostasy. This is from a Wiki article:

Apostasy in Christianity is the rejection of Christianity by someone who formerly was a Christian. The term apostasy comes from the Greek word apostasia meaning defection, departure, revolt or rebellion. It has been described as "a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christianity. Apostasy is the rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian....

An example would be a Christian who rejects Christianity and all that means, and defects to Islam and the worship of Allah.

This would be to reject everything Christ has done for us and if that same person wanted to return to Jesus after renouncing him, and came back to him a second time, they would be crucifying Jesus over again. Hence we read this in Hebrews 6 and likewise elsewhere.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I am sure in my own mind this is not going to happen to anyone here, so please people, keep calm and don't upset yourselves, we are all safe in the arms of Jesus. In Christian love.

And who does the willfull rebellion, revolt or defection? I think it is the unsaved. Apostate are merely professing but not possesing believers. They are unbelieving doing the nature of their father, the devil.

 

[PS]

And who does the willfull rebellion, revolt or defection? I think it is the unsaved. Apostate are merely professing but not possesing believers. They are unbelieving doing the nature of their father, the devil.

What the apostate does is similar to someone divorcing their husband or wife. You need to have been in a relationship with them before you can separate from them.

The people we are talking about have already, "been enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God." (Hebrews 6)

As I said, I don't think it applies to anyone on here, neither does it apply to the unbeliever because they have never known the Lord or shared in the Holy Spirit.