GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Oct 31, 2015
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LK 4v16, Joh 15v10, 8v29,

Those are scripture references, not scriptures.


Here is what a scripture is -

  • He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,

Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this verse.


Do you attend a synagogue on the Sabbath?


16 When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on Saturday, and stood up to read the Scriptures.


again


10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.” John 15:10


Again, this scripture does mention Jesus "keeping the Sabbath". If anything it indicates He did not keep the Sabbath.



again


And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” John 8:29


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this scripture.



It is evident, as to why you didn't provide a scripture, but only a scripture reference, because there in nothing in the scriptures that says "Jesus kept the Sabbath".


Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


  • because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,


This scripture says Jesus broke the Sabbath, not kept the Sabbath.





JPT
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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NO Dan...we do not want to go back to the OT for instructions.....you would also be STONED if you got it wrong.
As far as I can make out YASHUA/Jesus tells us TO FOLLOW HIM - as a true disciple would and so you would keep the COMMANDMENTS INCLUDING the Sabbath AS HE DID ! that sounds right to me....obviously not everybody.
Could the reason be to separate sheep from Goates ? think about it....some people are obedient some are not and it shows in our actions.
I wasn't talking about going back to the old Covenant for instructions, just that in the Old Testament everyone didn't decide for themselves how to keep the law.

I can't keep the Sabbath the way Jesus did, Jesus healed on the Sabbath. So again it's up to every person to decide which things that Jesus did on the Sabbath they will imitate.

If Jesus is separating sheep from goats based on keeping the Sabbath, then it would be great if there was a priest I could go to who could use the communication stones and ask him if it was okay to mow the lawn on Saturday.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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Those are scripture references, not scriptures.


Here is what a scripture is -

  • He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,

Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this verse.


Do you attend a synagogue on the Sabbath?


16 When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on Saturday, and stood up to read the Scriptures.


again


10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.” John 15:10


Again, this scripture does mention Jesus "keeping the Sabbath". If anything it indicates He did not keep the Sabbath.



again


And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” John 8:29


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this scripture.



It is evident, as to why you didn't provide a scripture, but only a scripture reference, because there in nothing in the scriptures that says "Jesus kept the Sabbath".


Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


  • because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,


This scripture says Jesus broke the Sabbath, not kept the Sabbath.





JPT
So you DID manage to find the SCRIPTURES I referenced for you....well done.....but NOT so well done for DENYING THEM !!!!
Now...WHO said Jesus/Yashua BROKE the Sabbath.....was it God His Father OR was it the Pharisees who HATED HIM and YOU seem to side with ????
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So you DID manage to find the SCRIPTURES I referenced for you....well done.....but NOT so well done for DENYING THEM !!!!

Can you point out where I "denied" the scriptures.

I actually posted the scriptures that you yourself, did not.

I wrote them out for all to see that there is simple no mention at all, of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath".


Is going to a synagogue to teach, a commandment of the Sabbath?


  • If so, do you, yourself attend a synagogue?


Please pioint out in the scriptures I quoted where they say "Jesus kept the Sabbath".


Here is my post again -



Here is what a scripture is -

  • He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,

Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this verse.


Do you attend a synagogue on the Sabbath?


16 When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on Saturday, and stood up to read the Scriptures.


again


10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.” John 15:10


Again, this scripture does mention Jesus "keeping the Sabbath". If anything it indicates He did not keep the Sabbath.



again


And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” John 8:29


No mention of Jesus "keeping the Sabbath" in this scripture.



It is evident, as to why you didn't provide a scripture, but only a scripture reference, because there in nothing in the scriptures that says "Jesus kept the Sabbath".


Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


  • because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,


This scripture says Jesus broke the Sabbath, not kept the Sabbath.





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Now...WHO said Jesus/Yashua BROKE the Sabbath.

The scriptures.


Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18


  • because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father,



Does this scripture say Jesus...

  • broke the Sabbath

or

  • Kept the Sabbath?



JPT
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Hi gb9.....at last there is something we agree on -

I do not like the new format either !!!!!!!!
There are several things improved, though there are some things I think worked better previously.
It will take time getting used to but I think it's fine, overall better.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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Thank You, Beta,

we both love 'truth-tellers' who know their Lord and Saviour, Obey Him,
and who really know their Bible and the Scriptures...
hugs...
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Thank You, Beta,

we both love 'truth-tellers' who know their Lord and Saviour, Obey Him,
and who really know their Bible and the Scriptures...
hugs...
that's one reason I was impressed with JPT's post about how Jesus broke the Sabbath in John chapter 5.

I hadn't seen that before.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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We need to take heed of those who pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works," which is NOT the works worthy of repentance that the Bible speaks of. These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 trusted in their works for salvation AND JESUS NEVER KNEW THEM, just as many people today who are mixed up in various false religions and cults who play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom do as well.

You are not fooling any genuine BELIEVERS on Christian Chat with your trickery and deceit. :rolleyes:
This is a Bible discussion forum. I am discussing the Bible and Its Words. I don't trust in "my" Works for Salvation as those who you referenced, I trust in God's Works. I trust in the Righteous, perfect Works God created beforehand that we should walk in, as He instructed in His Word that you deny.

God did create Works for us to walk in, according to His Word. Not yours, but His. Your unbelief in His Word doesn't make His Word Void.

This is His Program not yours or the Popes. But He did tell us what you would say.

But they said; "We will not walk in them".

Don't be angry at me for what God's Word reveals about you.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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The Covenant the Lord made with Abraham.
Yes, thank you. The Covenant God made with Abraham.

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And (If you do these things) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; (Abraham obeyed because he believed Him)

Was this same Covenant offered to Cain?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Isn't this the same thing Jesus said as a man?

Matt. 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The covenant requirements: walk before Me and be blameless.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2

Example: because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5

The Abrahamic Covenant became the New [refreshed] Covenant, when the Lord who made Covenant with Abraham became flesh, and shed His blood, confirming that covenant with His own blood as Abraham did with his.

This is why we are called "children of Abraham", through faith in Christ Jesus, because we are grafted into that Covenant.

Yes, that is why those who "cling to God" as Abraham did are called the Children of Abraham.

Notice the Covenant requirements are the same as the New Covenant:

  • walk before Me and be blameless. Walk with Me in My Presence and be blameless
  • Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh
JPT
Yes, God's Instructions are Spiritual. From Eve, to Cain, to Noah, To Abraham, humans have been given instruction in Righteousness which we are to have lodged in our mind to fight the battle of thoughts and "rule over the lusts of the Flesh".

These would include "Love the Lord your God", Don't Covet, Don't steal, etc.

So God remembered His Covenant with Abraham and gave, once again, to Abraham's Children "His Voice, His Commandments, His Statutes, and His Laws that Abraham obeyed.

But He also "ADDED" a law because of the Transgressions of the Covenant God created with Abraham, until Jesus, the Seed should come. This Added Law had to do with

#1.Administering God's Laws to the people. "11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) (That God gave to Abraham)

#2. Perform ceremonial, sacrificial "works" to atone for the sin's of the People until the Seed should come.


Abraham had God's Laws, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood. He was justified "Apart from the Law".

Thank you JPT.

Added to God's Laws that were given to Abraham, because of transgression of God's Laws that were given to Abraham.

Exactly
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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How can you be so comfortable adding to God's word what God did not say??!

That is not in the text
Because God has said the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over in His Word.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Ex. 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes,(Then) I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Ex. 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Lev. 26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:

16 (Then) I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

There are literally hundreds of examples of "if" you do this, then this will happen, and "IF you do that, then the other will happen.

Matt. 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, (Then) let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

"IF you Love me, (Then) Keep my Commandments."

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (DO SOMETHING) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And (Then) I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Matt. 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and (then) I will make you fishers of men.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

In every case "IF" they did as instructed "Then" God Will do this or that.

Cain Didn't DO as God instructed "SO THEN" he was cursed, not blessed. The Pharisees "DIDN'T DO" as God instructed, "SO THEN" their foolish heart was darkened.


So I am not adding to the text, rather, reading it in context to EVERY time God gave man instruction.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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This is a Bible discussion forum. I am discussing the Bible and Its Words.

I don't trust in "my" Works for Salvation as those who you referenced, I trust in God's Works. I trust in the Righteous, perfect Works God created beforehand that we should walk in, as He instructed in His Word that you deny.

God did create Works for us to walk in, according to His Word. Not yours, but His. Your unbelief in His Word doesn't make His Word Void.

This is His Program not yours or the Popes. But He did tell us what you would say.

But they said; "We will not walk in them".

Don't be angry at me for what God's Word reveals about you.
There is a difference between discussing God’s Word and twisting God’s Word.

We are saved by grace through faith, not works and we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10). So we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. I understand the difference and I don’t deny Ephesians 2:10. I also do not mix the old and new covenant and teach salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Trusting in God’s works/good works and not your works as the means of your salvation is a distinction without a difference because who is it that walks in/performs these works? I don’t have unbelief in God’s Word and I also do not pervert the Gospel.

God’s Word does not reveal the false accusations that you make about me and it’s ironic to hear you make that statement. You don’t need to worry about me being angry. I have a good conscience and I’m not easily fooled by false teachers.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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For the promise was to Abraham or his descendants that he should be heir of the world, not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those of the Law are heirs, faith has been made void and the promise made of no effect. For Law brings wrath; and where there is no Law, neither is transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise to be sure to all the seed, not only to that of the Law, but also to that of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us of all — as it has been written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” — before God whom he believed, the One giving life to the dead and calling into being the things not even existing, who against hope, in hope believed, for him to become the father of many nations, according to that having been spoken, “So shall your offspring be.” And not having become weak in the faith, he considered his body already having become dead, being about a hundred years old, and the lifelessness of Sarah’s womb.
Yet he did not waver through unbelief at the promise of God, but was strengthened in faith, having given glory to God, and having been fully assured that what He had promised, He is also able to do. Therefore also “it was credited to him unto righteousness.”
(Romans 4:13-22)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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interestingly,

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”
(Genesis 17:1-2)

two commands:

  1. faithfully walk before Him
  2. be blameless

what's the first thing Abraham did, walk or be blameless?

Abram fell facedown
(Genesis 17:3)
:D
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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For the promise was to Abraham or his descendants that he should be heir of the world, not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those of the Law are heirs, faith has been made void and the promise made of no effect. For Law brings wrath; and where there is no Law, neither is transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise to be sure to all the seed, not only to that of the Law, but also to that of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us of all — as it has been written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” — before God whom he believed, the One giving life to the dead and calling into being the things not even existing, who against hope, in hope believed, for him to become the father of many nations, according to that having been spoken, “So shall your offspring be.” And not having become weak in the faith, he considered his body already having become dead, being about a hundred years old, and the lifelessness of Sarah’s womb.
Yet he did not waver through unbelief at the promise of God, but was strengthened in faith, having given glory to God, and having been fully assured that what He had promised, He is also able to do. Therefore also “it was credited to him unto righteousness.”
(Romans 4:13-22)
Hebrew translation - where there is no Torah, there is no peysha ( transgression, violation of the Law ).

( not that studyman cares about language , definitions, things like that ).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Hebrew translation - where there is no Torah, there is no peysha ( transgression, violation of the Law ).

( not that studyman cares about language , definitions, things like that ).
Logically speaking if there isn't law, no violation of the law.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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We are saved by grace through faith, not works and we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10). So we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. I understand the difference and I don’t deny Ephesians 2:10. I also do not mix the old and new covenant and teach salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

Trusting in God’s works/good works and not your works as the means of your salvation is a distinction without a difference because who is it that walks in/performs these works? I don’t have unbelief in God’s Word and I also do not pervert the Gospel.

God’s Word does not reveal the false accusations that you make about me and it’s ironic to hear you make that statement. You don’t need to worry about me being angry. I have a good conscience and I’m not easily fooled by false teachers.


Made with love for my brother in Christ :)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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4 th commandment is a law

We are not under the law

So we can not violate 4 th commandment