Baptism and holy spirit

[Ralph-]

There's no 'simpler' gift, yet speaking in tongues has flourished while other gifts have died- there's no more raising of dead/no more healing/ no more miracles- only fake ones yet speaking in tongues is the only gift that flourishes (with no gift interpretation of spoken tongues).

I don't know that the gift of tongues is flourishing above and beyond the other gifts. I have only heard a few instances that I thought were genuine. I think it's no more common than the other gifts. All are equally rare in this age of the 'First Church of the Frozen Chosen'.

And as far as 'no more healings'? Not true at all. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[Noose]

Interpretation of tongues is to be done by the person who speaks in tongues (1 Cor 14:5, 13).

But other that that, you're right. Speaking in tongues is useless in the church unless it's interpreted, so the church can understand and be edified.


People can speak in tongues to themselves in church as much as they want. But if they want to speak out loud, they must do so with the intent to interpret.

Wrong again, interpreting spoken tongues is another gift separate from speaking in tongues that someone else other than the one who speaks in tongues is given.

1 Cor 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

Of what use should i speak incomprehensible things only for me to inter prate it later, isn't it easier for me to just speak in a language known by everybody else directly?

 

[Ralph-]

Sadly, the spirit of Simon has captured the charismatic movement in the church (Acts 8:13-21).

It's a legitimate move of God ruined by the greed and spiritless motivations of men.

 

[Noose]

I don't know that the gift of tongues is flourishing above and beyond the other gifts. I have only heard a few instances that I thought were genuine. I think it's no more common than the other gifts. All are equally rare in this age of the 'First Church of the Frozen Chosen'.

And as far as 'no more healings'? Not true at all. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

And this is where the devil wins, one speaks incomprehensible words and it is termed fake and another speaks incomprehensible words, you want to term it genuine, how on Earth do you know one from the other? what criteria do you have to use to say one is genuine and the other is fake is both are incomprehensible?
Again, these last days, the coming of the antichrist is accompanied with signs and wonders, even the healings are fake. We are living in a time that God doesn't broadcast publicly, those that are healed are healed in private, most don't even realize. The things done for the public are all fake.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Interpretation of tongues is to be done by the person who speaks in tongues

I disagree. One should speak and another interpret. Otherwise, you should just speak it once in the language of the gathering, not make them sit through you speaking it once when they don't understand as you edify yourself and then make them sit a second time as you give the interpretation. I strongly disagree.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I'm saying it shouldn't. Because you are wasting peoples times while you first edify yourself.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You don't need revelation to speak in tongues.

I agree.

 

[Noose]

I guess the same way John saw the Spirit descend on Jesus at his baptism.

Why guess?
What John saw happened for a reason, the physical presentation/symbolism was for identification of the Messiah.

John 1:
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

I don't know who you were identifying in that congregation, you have absolutely no reason to use John's example.

And it is debatable, only John and Jesus saw that.

 

[Ralph-]

...one speaks incomprehensible words and it is termed fake and another speaks incomprehensible words, you want to term it genuine, how on Earth do you know one from the other? what criteria do you have to use to say one is genuine and the other is fake is both are incomprehensible?

Because it is very much not an earthly, human language. Human lips simply do not move in that way in our languages.

I said this in one of my posts: My wife's gift was so out there I knew it was not her vocalizing these.....these......I don't know what they were. Stammering lips is a VERY good description of it. And trust me, she's not one to fake something like that. She's a very 'either it's real or not' kind of girl. The ONLY way she'd ever talk in tongues is if it was genuinely real coming from something beside herself. And that is what happened.

 

[Ralph-]

Why guess?
What John saw happened for a reason, the physical presentation/symbolism was for identification of the Messiah.

John 1:
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

I don't know who you were identifying in that congregation, you have absolutely no reason to use John's example.

And it is debatable, only John and Jesus saw that.

Naysayer is what you want to be, naysayer is what you will be. That is how God works.

Except God exercise a sovereign move of the Spirit in your life you will receive exactly what you believe you will receive--nothing. That is how God works.

 

[shrume]

Interpretation of tongues is to be done by the person who speaks in tongues

I disagree.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

One should speak and another interpret.

Not according to the Bible.

Otherwise, you should just speak it once in the language of the gathering, not make them sit through you speaking it once when they don't understand as you edify yourself and then make them sit a second time as you give the interpretation. I strongly disagree.

You can disagree all you like, but what does the Bible say?

I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

That's how it's always supposed to happen.

I'm saying it shouldn't.

Well.... See above.

Because you are wasting peoples times while you first edify yourself.

No you're not.

 

[Ralph-]

I don't know who you were identifying in that congregation, you have absolutely no reason to use John's example.

And as I said, Acts 2 is actually the description of what I saw that Sunday.

I was using John's experience so you could question his experience too, which we both know you can't do.

And it is debatable, only John and Jesus saw that.

Agreed.

I feel that my experience was for me and me alone. And for the reason I said. So I would not bash the gift of tongues and go on some misguided mission in the church to diss the experience. Because I probably would have.

 

[shrume]

Because it is very much not an earthly, human language. Human lips simply do not move in that way in our languages.

Tongues CAN be a language of men. It can be a current language spoken somewhere in the world, a "dead" language no longer spoken, or a language of angels.

I have not witnessed this personally, but I have heard of occasions when a person spoke in tongues and someone in the group understood the language.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

To one is given the gift/manifestation of speaking in various tongues. To another is given/gifted/manifested to interpret various tongues.

 

[Noose]

And finally before i retire to bed, a word of caution.

Who are these people:

Matt 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy inYour name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

I repeat, satan/antichrist has duped many to the point that they believe they do all these things in the name of God. The above scenario is a judgement day scenario- many who thought they genuinely did what they are did for God would be surprised.

Again, The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs/ the kingdom of God is like unto a treasure, a man found it and hid it and Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls. When he found one very precious pearl, he went away and sold all he had and bought it.

Things that happen in the kingdom are a secret, those that are publicly broadcasted are of satan.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And as I said, Acts 2 is actually the description of what I saw that Sunday.

I was using John's experience so you could question his experience too, which we both know you can't do.



Agreed.

I feel that my experience was for me and me alone. And for the reason I said. So I would not bash the gift of tongues and go on some misguided mission in the church to diss the experience. Because I probably would have.

This made me laugh so hard! When you first said you thought it was given you to see it so you wouldn't bash tongues, my first thought was: and knowing what I do of ralph, he would have!

 

[Ralph-]

Tongues CAN be a language of men. It can be a current language spoken somewhere in the world, a "dead" language no longer spoken, or a language of angels.

I have not witnessed this personally, but I have heard of occasions when a person spoke in tongues and someone in the group understood the language.

I am aware of this. I'm addressing the personal language of tongues.

 

[Ralph-]

And finally before i retire to bed, a word of caution.

Who are these people:

Matt 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy inYour name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

I repeat, satan/antichrist has duped many to the point that they believe they do all these things in the name of God. The above scenario is a judgement day scenario- many who thought they genuinely did what they are did for God would be surprised.

Again, The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs/ the kingdom of God is like unto a treasure, a man found it and hid it and Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls. When he found one very precious pearl, he went away and sold all he had and bought it.

Things that happen in the kingdom are a secret, those that are publicly broadcasted are of satan.

How did Peter know God had accepted the gentiles? What visible signs showed him that?

 

[Noose]

Because it is very much not an earthly, human language. Human lips simply do not move in that way in our languages.

I said this in one of my posts: My wife's gift was so out there I knew it was not her vocalizing these.....these......I don't know what they were. Stammering lips is a VERY good description of it. And trust me, she's not one to fake something like that. She's a very 'either it's real or not' kind of girl. The ONLY way she'd ever talk in tongues is if it was genuinely real coming from something beside herself. And that is what happened.

And can you tell apart the language/tongues from evil spirit? because even these can not be the same as human tongues.

 

[shrume]

To one is given the gift/manifestation of speaking in various tongues. To another is given/gifted/manifested to interpret various tongues.

Yes. I do not have a good explanation at the moment, but I'm sure there is one.

But that does NOT negate 1 Cor 14:5 and 13. So either Paul was wrong when he wrote 1 Cor 14:5 and 13, or there is another way to understand 1 Cor 12:8-10. Scripture cannot contradict itself.

If another person was to be the interpreter, that would require someone who wanted to speak in tongues to either 1) ask around before church started to see if anyone was willing to interpret, or 2) receive revelation from God that there was an interpreter present.

 

[Ralph-]

And can you tell apart the language/tongues from evil spirit? because even these can not be the same as human tongues.

Notice how you have no problem believing in satanic tongues but not in the Biblical gift of tongues by the Holy Spirit. Interesting.


But to answer your question, my wife was not worshiping satan in her life for that to be possible. Jesus said when you ask him for something good he does not give you a snake or a scorpion. She asked, she received.