Baptism and holy spirit
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well Jesus could not have taught from NT scripture so that is beyond a reason for your opposition and goes without saying.
uh huh...scripture says an whole awful lot more than what you want to believe so continue in your unbelief because that is, quite simply, all it is
cheers!
Tongues(stammering or mocking lips ) are designed as a sign against the Jew that would not beleive prophecy (God's word) but rather the oral traditions of the fathers called a law of the fathers ..mere commandments of men .
Because they would harden their hearts and stop of the ears God promised a time would come when he would prophecy using other languages other than the Hebrew. Called a "spirit of judgment" when looking to the foundation of the use.God is the interpreter of His prophecy he does not accept the private interpretation of men. All men have their own heresy as a personal opinion or bias of what they believe God is teaching.
I wouls say a must to study before looking at other sections that help prove the point of the Spirit
Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my addition to help make the point.
And for a "spirit of judgment" To him who is sitting in the judgment, And for might [to] those turning back the battle to the gate.And even these through wine have erred, And through strong drink have wandered, Priest and prophet erred through strong drink, They have been swallowed up of the wine, They wandered because of the strong drink, They have erred in seeing, They have stumbled judicially. For all tables have been full of vomit, Filth -- without place!By whom doth He teach knowledge? And by whom doth He cause to understand the report? The weaned from milk, the removed from breasts, For rule [is] on rule, rule on rule, line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there, For by scorned lip( mocking words of God ), and by another tongue(other languages other than the Hebrew) , Doth He speak unto this people. Unto whom He hath said, `This [is] the rest, give ye rest to the weary, And this -- the refreshing:' And they have not been willing to hear, And to whom a word of Jehovah hath been, Rule on rule, rule on rule, line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there, So that they go and have stumbled backward,(under the judgment of God) And been broken, and snared, and captured. Therefore, hear a word of Jehovah, ye men of scorning, Ruling this people that [is] in Jerusalem.Because ye have said: `We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we have made a provision, An overflowing scourge, when it passeth over, Doth not meet us, Though we have made a lie our refuge, And in falsehood have been hidden.'
New prophecy has ceased, the remaining prophecy the living abiding word of God that does work in those who believe now that we have the complete/perfect, still witnesses against those who will not hear God but rather hear men. The mocking lips (new testament) are still in a hope causing the unbelieving Jew to believe
I would suggest no such thing as a "sign gift" .We walk by faith ..the unseen, eternal, not by sight in respect to that seen, the temporal.
I don't think a person will find both sign and gift as one thing.
Signs are for those who rebel... prophecy the word of God for those who beleive God. It is an evil generation (natural man, no faith ) that does seek after one
So earnestly desiring the gifts/manifestations is seeking after a sign to your understanding?
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well good on yah!
so we will just ignore the scripture that says it IS a sign gift then?
well alrighty!
the rebellious are those those who ask for signs because of unbelief
there are signs everywhere for those who have eyes to see them
for instance, look up at the heavens...like the Psalmist did...the stars speak of God
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
honestly, when it comes to those who are anti the gifts of the Spirit, I am reminded of an organ grinder with his monkey
it just goes on and on and the monkey dance is boring
not meaning to offend anyone...just my a little off the wall sense of humor kicking in...besides it's the week-end
it just goes on and on and the monkey dance is boring
not meaning to offend anyone...just my a little off the wall sense of humor kicking in...besides it's the week-end
Seeking after a sign to prove the unprovable, yes.
God looks upon the heart of the unseen matter... Man looks to the flesh the outside. If Christ has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it to the end. This is when we do receive the promise our new incorruptible body in the new heavens and earth.
Christians as residents of the city of Christ, prepared as His eternal bride walk by faith of Christ, the unseen.
Signs are for those who rebel, prophecy for those who beleive God who does dwell in these earthen bodies of death (not of us) .
We bring the gospel or plant and water the seed.. he causes the increase if any. He must increase as we decrease
The purpose of tongues in Acts it to provide evidence to the unsaved Jews that the Gentiles were receiving the same Holy Spirit that they saw at Pentecost in the disciples who were Jewish. Jews did not want to believe that Jehovah God would give salvation to the Gentiles. The Jews read the scriptures to mean that they were elect and the Gentiles were not and therefore could not be saved.
So yes tongues are a sign to unbelieving Jews. Salvation it to the Jew first then to the Gentile.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yet in Corinthians Paul says that an interpreter is needed. Just another difference between Acts and Corinthians. It may have something to do with the audience. In Acts the audience is mostly Jewish and at Corinth the audience is mostly Gentile.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
honestly, when it comes to those who are anti the gifts of the Spirit, I am reminded of an organ grinder with his monkey
it just goes on and on and the monkey dance is boring
not meaning to offend anyone...just my a little off the wall sense of humor kicking in...besides it's the week-end
LOL.... Monkeys see, monkeys do. They do not walk by the faith of Christ . No missing bones.
Not against gifts, not seen as that which God works in us but against sign gifts .Signs are for those who rebel . Prophecy those who believe God not seen.
Its when he sees the blood (the work of the Spirit) not us .Not all who applied the blood were given the unseen gift of eternal life.
Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Except paul said to earnestly desire the gifts of the Spirit...But you say it is seeking after signs? Have you replaced Paul?
I would offer. The sign is not a sign of salvation but against those who refuse to hear Prophecy .Its God speaking prophecy in other languages, other then the Hebrew . A sign they do not have salvation.
Except that it doesn't have so much to do with jew or non jew but rather with an out of control gathering he was instructing.
When I got saved with 13y I went to the front by the altar and closed my eyes to pray. After I finished my prayer of forgiveness I opened my eyes and looked up to the ceiling. A body like a bird bright as the sun came down and entered my head. I did not see it going to the other people who were kneeling next to me.
From that moment on I had changed and pure joy was with me. I became a new person momentarily. I got Baptist with 27 but received the holy ghost long before.
From that moment on I had changed and pure joy was with me. I became a new person momentarily. I got Baptist with 27 but received the holy ghost long before.
Too bad paul didn't instruct them to only speak in tongues if a jew was present.
At Pentecost everyone heard in their own language. It would be odd to insist that only jews were present and hearing in their own tongue...
How so?
First century Jews hated Gentiles. They considered Gentiles to be lower than dogs. They would not eat or associate with Gentiles. Possibly from two main factors. They knew from scriptures that Jews were Gods elect among the nations. They also had experience with being taken into captivity by Gentiles and being treated very harshly.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
uh huh
but tongues are or were supposed to be a sign for unbelievers in order that they might believe...of course not the type of disorder in the Corinthian church
I didn't call tongues a sign gift...the Bible does. and seeking after the gifts as Stunned already pointed out, is certainly not rebellious
prophecy...just how are you intending that to be understood?
and what does Exodus 12:13 have to do with it? not understanding your use of the verse there
will get back when I can should you choose to answer...
