Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Epiales]

Can anyone provide even one little, tiny scripture of anyone losing God after God has chosen them in the scriptures? And don't use the same ole ones that don't apply please.

King Saul... He still was saved.

Ananias and Sapphire... no proof they ever were truly saved.

Judas Iscariot... Well, he truly never believed either, but is a good example of someone who can go through all the actions, and even walk with Jesus and eat with him, but even Christ knew there was a devil among them.

So.. those are the most common... I figured I'd just list them so we could avoid all the conversations about it.

So, any one provide some scriptures that Christ or God did lose any of those He called? If u're up to the challenge, I want names. Don't want a ton of scriptures about this and that. I want actual personal names of even one person that accepted God and was thrown away. Not just believed in God, but entrusted their spiritual well being to Him, and then scripture says they went to hell. Millions of people believe, if not a billion or more.. Believing isn't good enough, even the devil believes. Statistics say that about 75% or more are Christian in the USA... hmmm.... Makes ya wonder which of those are playing Church and not really saved huh? If it were truly that percentage, then we would not be where we are to day in this country. Yup Yup Yup, just one itty, bitty scripture please.

I mean, if it's such a belief that we can sin ourselves out of grace or if we can throw it away, surely God would give us "examples" in scripture. Lots of examples of people getting saved, so was just wondering where all the other examples of those are that lost it or threw it away? I mean the Bible mentions MANY, MANY names of the saved, so surely there are names of those that lost it?

And hope u're all having a blessed day. Glad to meet everyone here, whether they agree or disagree with anything I've posted. But I do want names. YAY for YESHUA!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Again, if not ONE will be lost, then we don't have a choice. It's not what we do but what He did. We cannot UNDO what God has done and promised and sealed. A child of God will never throw Jesus away anyway, because they have fully trusted in HIM and what HE DID. Why would we throw that away? We won't. And IF we could, I think God would bring us home because He won't allow us, nor will HE break ANY covenant that He has made with us. Since His Spirit lies within us and we are now the TEMPLE of God, He's not going to throw us in hell. He can't! That would be like throwing Himself in Hell. It's impossible. We are HIS, and CHOSEN... If we can throw it away, then God is a very weak God that cannot keep His own.. in which would make scripture invalid and nothing but lies, because God IS ABLE to keep us until the day of redemption.

This is hilarious. If i didn't know better I'd think it was parody.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Disowning your father means (a) you are lying and (b) you want nothing to do with him. You have broken off the relationship.

Can you explain how someone who repented because he knew he was hopeless and headed to hell because if your sin, and no matter what you do, you can not save yourself, so you trusted in God to save you because you knew that was your only hope

Would repent again so he could return to the path which his KNOWS will only lead to hell, knowing there is still nothing he can do? And christ is his only hope?

I mean please, do explain this to me! Because that guy has some serious mental issues, and may need to go on some treatment for losing his mind. Because he can not be mentally stable. And he people around him need protected.

 

[Epiales]

This is hilarious. If i didn't know better I'd think it was parody.

Laughter is medicine for the soul. Glad u're finding humor It's good to laugh

 

[Cee]

That’s basically what I said.

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews, and focused on strengthening their faith, by showing them who Jesus Christ is.

From chapter 1 the author sets out to do this very thing demonstrating that Jesus Christ is the Lord God of the Old Testament.


The reason for this is, unbelieving Jews were persecution these Jewish converts in order to turn them back to Judaism, an antichrist religion that rejects Jesus as Messaiah and Lord.

Jesus taught his disciples about this very thing, in His teaching of the Sower.


11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15



Here is the key verse that correlates to Hebrews 3:12-14 from which Hebrews 10:26-28 gets its context.



But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

This is a direct reference to departing from Him under persecution.





“Fall way” is the same Greek work as used in Hebrews 3:12

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Again this context continues through Hebrews 6, and on into Hebrews 10.


It’s an admonition to the Jews to remain faithful to Christ while under persecution, even unto death.

• But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:36-39



JPT

Well put. Yes, this is actually why the Early church around 100+ AC created so many "standards of conduct" which later formed into RCC. Because they wanted to make it difficult for people to be a Christian to ensure they truly believed and wouldn't fall away. However, it is the power of God's love that causes us to remain. Those who are forgiven much love much, the idea isn't that Christians will fall away, but do you truly believe? Which is why we see "evil heart of unbelief". This is the heart of those who don't have a harvest. And further if you think there is salvation in under any other name there is no other sacrifice left for you referencing the temple sacrifices. Bringing them to the sufficiency and finality of Jesus.

1 Co 11:18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

 

[Epiales]

Can you explain how someone who repented because he knew he was hopeless and headed to hell because if your sin, and no matter what you do, you can not save yourself, so you trusted in God to save you because you knew that was your only hope

Would repent again so he could return to the path which his KNOWS will only lead to hell, knowing there is still nothing he can do? And christ is his only hope?

I mean please, do explain this to me! Because that guy has some serious mental issues, and may need to go on some treatment for losing his mind. Because he can not be mentally stable. And he people around him need protected.

Yeah, it's not even logical is it? I know Jesus is the only way to save me and give me eternal life. Nothing I can do, and I accept that. YAY I"m Saved...

Wait, I don't want that anymore... I know I'm going to hell if I throw this away, but I think I"ll enjoy hell more than heaven. So here, take it back Lord, I don't want it...

A year later... Well, maybe heaven sounds better.. YAY I'm SAVED AGAIN....

2 years later. Well, hell really does sound better... I want to burn in hell forever. YAY ME. So here Jesus, I throw your grace away. YAY ME again.

This is literally what people are saying... (rolls eyes)

 

[PS]

Can anyone provide even one little, tiny scripture of anyone losing God after God has chosen them in the scriptures?

The Israelites. Only two entered the Promised Land.

 

[Epiales]

The Israelites. Only two entered the Promised Land.

HAHA, I said names. You are cheating. And why did the others not make it? Because they didn't believe LOL. Yeah, Joshua and Caleb were the only two that took God to "heart" and believed in Him with all their might. If the others really believed, they would of joined them for the party.

Deu 1:32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

That is why they didn't enter. Simple

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hmmm... Born not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of GOD. Cannot EVER undo what God has done when it's not by our will, mind, flesh, or man. God KNEW who would accept Him from before creation of the World, and since we have accepted Him, He cannot and will not break that marriage covenant like men do.

You don't understand how contradictory your beliefs are. You just got through saying one's spiritual nature (the new birth) doesn't save a person, but here said that it does in so many words, i.e., the spiritual birth can't be undone.

 

[Epiales]

Can you explain how someone who repented because he knew he was hopeless and headed to hell because if your sin, and no matter what you do, you can not save yourself, so you trusted in God to save you because you knew that was your only hope

Would repent again so he could return to the path which his KNOWS will only lead to hell, knowing there is still nothing he can do? And christ is his only hope?

I mean please, do explain this to me! Because that guy has some serious mental issues, and may need to go on some treatment for losing his mind. Because he can not be mentally stable. And he people around him need protected.

Also makes me wonder about the thief on the cross and the people that confess Christ on their deathbed.

I have NEVER heard a Christian say that you would not be able to receive salvation on your death bed if you ask for it. They all agree that one can be saved on their deathbed.

But even then, they never did a work in their life but to believe. But yet, someone who served 70 years in the Ministry and truly loves God, worked all those years, and b/c they sin their way out of salvation, they can't go to heaven. HMMM... this sounds like God showing favoritism to the dying man on his deathbed.

Most people don't look at it that way, but that's exactly what it is.. Respecters of persons... I'll save the one who did nothing and confessed me in the last breath, but this other one, I'll throw away.. who cares He served me 70 years... hmmmm

Baloney lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

HAHA, I said names. You are cheating. And why did the others not make it? Because they didn't believe LOL. Yeah, Joshua and Caleb were the only two that took God to "heart" and believed in Him with all their might. If the others really believed, they would of joined them for the party.

Deu 1:32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

That is why they didn't enter. Simple

That's all that I'm saying. Those who believe enter. They believed enough to get saved out of Egypt, but stopped believing during trials.

 

[Epiales]

You don't understand how contradictory your beliefs are. You just got through saying one's spiritual nature (the new birth) doesn't save a person, but here said that it does in so many words, i.e., the spiritual birth can't be undone.

The spiritual birth can't be undone. It's not that birth that saved us though.. it's Christ who saved us. Silly willy LOL.. Trix are for kids

The New Birth is a result of what Christ did. You can't undo what Christ did. Period!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Also makes me wonder about the thief on the cross and the people that confess Christ on their deathbed.

I have NEVER heard a Christian say that you would not be able to receive salvation on your death bed if you ask for it. They all agree that one can be saved on their deathbed.

But even then, they never did a work in their life but to believe. But yet, someone who served 70 years in the Ministry and truly loves God, worked all those years, and b/c they sin their way out of salvation, they can't go to heaven. HMMM... this sounds like God showing favoritism to the dying man on his deathbed.

Most people don't look at it that way, but that's exactly what it is.. Respecters of persons... I'll save the one who did nothing and confessed me in the last breath, but this other one, I'll throw away.. who cares He served me 70 years... hmmmm

Baloney lol

You need to go read Ezekiel 33:12-20

 

[Epiales]

That's all that I'm saying. Those who believe enter. They believed enough to get saved out of Egypt, but stopped believing during trials.

That's like saying... "I believe in aliens" Then thy prove beyond a shadow of a doubt there are no aliens... Then you're like.. Well I guess they don't exist...

If you can change your mind about them not existing, then you truly never had a true, undying, faith that they ever existed to begin with. Same thing YAY YESHUA

 

[PS]

HAHA, I said names. You are cheating. And why did the others not make it? Because they didn't believe LOL. Yeah, Joshua and Caleb were the only two that took God to "heart" and believed in Him with all their might. If the others really believed, they would of joined them for the party.

Deu 1:32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

That is why they didn't enter. Simple

If you think the Israelites did not believe in Yahweh and were not saved, then you should be asking yourself if Yahweh saved you.

Goodbye.

 

[Cee]

HAHA, I said names. You are cheating. And why did the others not make it? Because they didn't believe LOL. Yeah, Joshua and Caleb were the only two that took God to "heart" and believed in Him with all their might. If the others really believed, they would of joined them for the party.

Deu 1:32 Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

That is why they didn't enter. Simple

I agree. Here's another Scripture:

Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he has a different spirit and has followed me fully, I will bring into the land into which he went, and his descendants shall possess it.

And here's where it all went down.

Numbers 14:6And Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes 7and said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “The land, which we passed through to spy it out, is an exceedingly good land. 8If the LORD delights in us, he will bring us into this land and give it to us, a land that flows with milk and honey. 9Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not fear the people of the land, for they are bread for us. Their protection is removed from them, and the LORD is with us; do not fear them.” 10Then all the congregation said to stone them with stones. But the glory of the LORD appeared at the tent of meeting to all the people of Israel. 11And the LORD said to Moses, “How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them? 12I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they.”

The people saw the giants, they didn't believe they could overcome them, they believed that the Lord had set them up for failure. So they wanted to go back to Egypt. No longer trusting the Lord to provide for them. It was their lack of trust in the goodness/kindness of God that caused them to create their own idols (He left us) and to not seize the promised land (He isn't for us).

Romans 2:3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

And here's what the NT has to say about it all:

Hebrews 3:16For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? 17And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?18And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

They couldn't actually enter in themselves. And this is a warning to us too. If we aren't in rest for God to bring us into the promised land, we are in unbelief.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

That's like saying... "I believe in aliens" Then thy prove beyond a shadow of a doubt there are no aliens... Then you're like.. Well I guess they don't exist...

If you can change your mind about them not existing, then you truly never had a true, undying, faith that they ever existed to begin with. Same thing YAY YESHUA

if every other man/woman alive claimed God didnt exist

and tried to convince me using whatever methods they could

i would not believe them

they would be liars and God would be true

He has already shown me through so many things He is not only real
but exactly who He says He is

 

[Epiales]

You need to go read Ezekiel 33:12-20

Not all Israel accepted the God of Israel. There is a remnant now, just as there was back then. Was all the children of Israel destroyed? Nope! It's simple to understand, only those that did not want to follow Jehovah and they lived in their wickedness, those are whom He destroyed. Besides, killing them does not imply they went to hell either.... does it? I asked for scripture where someone lost God and went to hell. You can say King Saul lost God all ya want because of his actions, but he made it too... Didn't God destroy his earthly vessel, but yet saved him in doing so? Hmmm.... So just because God kills someone doesn't mean they went to hell.

 

[Epiales]

if every other man/woman alive claimed God didnt exist

and tried to convince me using whatever methods they could

i would not believe them

they would be liars and God would be true

He has already shown me through so many things He is not only real
but exactly who He says He is

That's my point! If one can change their mind like that, then the question they need to ask is did they truly believe in the beginning? I don't care if there were 10, 666 people on the earth and every one of them said God didn't exist, I would still tell them what I'm saying here. There is nothing that can make me unbeliever in my Savior.

 

[PS]

I agree. Here's another Scripture:

Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he has a different spirit and has followed me fully, I will bring into the land into which he went, and his descendants shall possess it.

And here's where it all went down.

Numbers 14:6And Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes 7and said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “The land, which we passed through to spy it out, is an exceedingly good land. 8If the LORD delights in us, he will bring us into this land and give it to us, a land that flows with milk and honey. 9Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not fear the people of the land, for they are bread for us. Their protection is removed from them, and the LORD is with us; do not fear them.” 10Then all the congregation said to stone them with stones. But the glory of the LORD appeared at the tent of meeting to all the people of Israel. 11And the LORD said to Moses, “How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them? 12I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they.”

The people saw the giants, they didn't believe they could overcome them, they believed that the Lord had set them up for failure. So they wanted to go back to Egypt. No longer trusting the Lord to provide for them. It was their lack of trust in the goodness/kindness of God that caused them to create their own idols (He left us) and to not seize the promised land (He isn't for us).

Romans 2:3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

And here's what the NT has to say about it all:

Hebrews 3:16For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? 17And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?18And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

If we aren't in rest for God to bring us into the promised land, we are in unbelief.

Clearly the Israelites believed in Yahweh, and equally clearly they apostatised.

Proving the fallacy of OSAS.