Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[PS]

Yes you can. People do it ALL the time. I know people in Catholic Churches that go through ALL the rituals and stuff, but yet tell ya that they do it because they're a member, but they know it isn't the way to do it. Many people follow things they do not believe in.

They do it because they are a member, not because they believe in it. You cannot lose what you never had.

 

[Epiales]

We are talking about loosing your salvation, and for them to loose their salvation they must have believed in the first place, otherwise would not have had anything to lose.

Right, and thus my analagy. They had the opportunity to go get that free 100 bucks (salvation), but they didn't want to go get it (wanted to stay where they were b/c they didn't want to do anything to go and get it) And thus, with salvation, it takes FAITH. They believe in Christ, or they at least believe in what the Word is telling them, but they choose not to accept it; like that 100 bucks. You can believe in something, but not yet have it in your heart. Even the devil believes in Christ and he's not saved now is he? Those are the people who are going to 'depart from the faith'. They do not have Jesus as their Lord and Savior. They believe, but they have NEVER accepted. Just as the children of Israel followed Moses because he led them to FREEDOM. YAY US, we're now free... But they did not accept in their hearts, the God that delivered them. Of course they were going to follow Moses b/c of their freedom. But only Joshua and Caleb took it to 'heart' and they were the only ones that made it to the promised Land. They had HEART knowledge and not just belief in their mind.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Now this I have to disagree with. Then Christ Himself states that He shall lose NONE that has been given Him... which NONE = 0... not 0 + 1.... Then that would contradict what Christ said, if in fact, a true believer in Christ could depart from the faith. It's impossible as Christ says Himself.

That's not really what John 6:39 says. It says that it's not the father's will that any who come to Christ perish. It says nothing about GOD pre-empting man's will.

John 10:28 can be qualified with the condition that no one will be able to pluck any believer out of GOD's hand who is believing. Same thing applies to Romans 8:38-39.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

These are self profession Christians, in the church, participating and claiming Christ, but they have not accepted him in their heart. They have a head knowledge of Him, but no heart transplant that God gives us at the new birth. If in fact, even ONE saved person in Christ, could depart from the faith, then Christ would be a liar. Why do you think it states that many will cast our demons and do these miracles, but yet Christ says depart? Because He never "KNEW" them to begin with. They were never HIS.

How do you know this? You're not GOD.

 

[Epiales]

That's not really what John 6:39 says. It says that it's not the father's will that any who come to Christ perish. It says nothing about GOD pre-empting man's will.

John 10:28 can be qualified with the condition that no one will be able to pluck any believer out of GOD's hand who is believing. Same thing applies to Romans 8:38-39.

So then predestined and foreknew can be scribbled out? Christ won't lose ONE SOUL that ever comes to Him. God knew this and Jesus Christ stated this. That's what I choose to believe in. If He does, then we are stronger than the Holy Spirit.

I mean, the Spirit of God is in us, so we are able to OVER POWER the HOLY SPIRIT somehow and become stronger than Him and tell Him to leave? Naw! God is supreme and more powerful than little old me.

 

[Epiales]

How do you know this? You're not GOD.

I'll just LOL at this

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's contradictory man... you cannot depart from the faith. If you can, then Christ is made a liar. He even went on to say:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day..

That can be conditioned with - him who is believing. It's so obvious from Christ's other teachings that it doesn't need to be mentioned in everything he said.

 

[PS]

Right, and thus my analagy. They had the opportunity to go get that free 100 bucks (salvation), but they didn't want to go get it (wanted to stay where they were b/c they didn't want to do anything to go and get it) And thus, with salvation, it takes FAITH. They believe in Christ, or they at least believe in what the Word is telling them, but they choose not to accept it; like that 100 bucks. You can believe in something, but not yet have it in your heart. Even the devil believes in Christ and he's not saved now is he? Those are the people who are going to 'depart from the faith'. They do not have Jesus as their Lord and Savior. They believe, but they have NEVER accepted. Just as the children of Israel followed Moses because he led them to FREEDOM. YAY US, we're now free... But they did not accept in their hearts, the God that delivered them. Of course they were going to follow Moses b/c of their freedom. But only Joshua and Caleb took it to 'heart' and they were the only ones that made it to the promised Land. They had HEART knowledge and not just belief in their mind.

The Israelites did not enter the Promised Land because they turned from God to idols and this is what we need to guard against in our personal life. This is where OSAS is wrong.

 

[Epiales]

That can be conditioned with - him who is believing. It's so obvious from Christ's other teachings that it doesn't need to be mentioned in everything he said.

No condition! Either you're a Saint or U ain't! God doesn't do anything half way, We are sealed by the Holy Spirit Forever. I mean, forever doesn't mean just that? What does forever mean?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

• For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JPT

1. Confdence -
Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

When are peopl going to put confidence in god and not self? Those who have confidence that God will complete his tak, never lose faith

2. He said beware, lest anyof the people he talks to hav an evil hea of unbelief.....last i heard those who have evil hearts of unblief were never saved. Thanks for proving the author did not assume everyone there was saved. ,

 

[Epiales]

The Israelites did not enter the Promised Land because they turned from God to idols and this is what we need to guard against in our personal life. This is where OSAS is wrong.

Look, I literally HATE OSAS teaching. I don't believe it's OSAS I believe it's whether a person is TRULY saved to begin with or not. This OSAS teaching is a teaching of demons in my book. It's opened the door to minimize and misuse the grace of God, and if someone is living like the devil and claiming to be a child? I've got news for them, but I"ll let God tell em all about it when He says, "depart from me, I never knew you."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So then predestined and foreknew can be scribbled out? Christ won't lose ONE SOUL that ever comes to Him. God knew this and Jesus Christ stated this. That's what I choose to believe in. If He does, then we are stronger than the Holy Spirit.

I mean, the Spirit of God is in us, so we are able to OVER POWER the HOLY SPIRIT somehow and become stronger than Him and tell Him to leave? Naw! God is supreme and more powerful than little old me.

All that you have to do is cease believing and walking in the faith and GOD will no longer be with you. The converse of this is true:

Let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24​

 

[PS]

Look, I literally HATE OSAS teaching. I don't believe it's OSAS I believe it's whether a person is TRULY saved to begin with or not. This OSAS teaching is a teaching of demons in my book. It's opened the door to minimize and misuse the grace of God, and if someone is living like the devil and claiming to be a child? I've got news for them, but I"ll let God tell em all about it when He says, "depart from me, I never knew you."

OK, lets leave it at that. I have to go out anyway. God bless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Israelites did not enter the Promised Land because they turned from God to idols and this is what we need to guard against in our personal life. This is where OSAS is wrong.

They did not enter because of unbelief, they did not believe in egypt, they did not at the water, at the well, at the rock which was struck at the manna, hey played the game, but. They never believed, they lacked faith so bad hey wanted to go back to be slaves.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No condition! Either you're a Saint or U ain't! God doesn't do anything half way, We are sealed by the Holy Spirit Forever. I mean, forever doesn't mean just that? What does forever mean?

Being sealed just means that he owns you. He can disown those who rebel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Being sealed just means that he owns you. He can disown those who rebel.

Better work hard not sin (rebe), or you will not earn place in heaven

Of course john said whoever rebels (sins) has never seen or known god, so so much for them being disowned.

 

[Epiales]

Being sealed just means that he owns you. He can disown those who rebel.

I pray that you never rebel then. My God will never disown me because His Spirit is indwelling me, and my name is already in the Lambs Book Of Life. He knew this from before the creation of the world. What a scary thought to walk my life in fear of being able to lose or throw my salvation away.

I've been on both sides of the fence too. I felt just that way. I could never EVER meet the standards of what the Word wants us to do. But praise Him He led me in the right direction and I now have peace through Christ; whom is my salvation. Forever salvation! He changes me daily as I heed and listen to the Spirit, and I know He will never leave me nor forsake me.

The point of ALL things becoming new was to get rid of the old and replace it with the new. When I stand before God, He will not hold anything against me because of Christ His Son. That's a POWERFUL and truth of what He did on the cross.

With this said, the bible says this:

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Notice the last part? Even as HE IS righteous? See, I can have this assurance because of Jesus Christ. I AM RIGHTEOUS ALREADY in the eyes of God.... But I don't ignore the first part. He that DOES righteousness is righteous. This means I still have a part to play in this life. NOT for my salvation, but so that men can see the righteousness within me and come to the knowledge of the truth. They will see His light and my salt and say... HEY, I want what he has."

Several verses talk about our works being done unto MEN, not God. God knows we are HIS... but man doesn't unless we ACT like it. James talks about this too.

So, yeah, I"m safe a secure in Christ Jesus, but I have a daily sanctification going on in my life, which transforms me daily into the person God wants me to be. Thank you Jesus for what you have done for me and that I never have to live in fear of you throwing me away like man does. Man will fail me, throw me away, curse me, kick me half to death and then push me off the cliff, but you Oh Lord, will never leave me nor forsake me.

I"m so Glad that you Oh Lord does not change your mind like man does or that you need anti depressants b/c you're moody or something. You are my fortress and in YOU I place my trust. No trust in myself, because the heart is deceitfully wicked... no trust in man b/c cursed is the man that puts their trust in man. MY TRUST IS IN YOU LORD! YAY YESHUA!

Okay, done typing

 

[Epiales]

Better work hard not sin (rebe), or you will not earn place in heaven

Of course john said whoever rebels (sins) has never seen or known god, so so much for them being disowned.

Don't forget if they sin willfully, and this means even one TIME... Then they have no more sacrifice for their sins. Sigh! Drive by bible thumpin's what I call that. One scripture bangers out of context

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't forget if they sin willfully, and this means even one TIME... Then they have no more sacrifice for their sins. Sigh! Drive by bible thumpin's what I call that. One scripture bangers out of context

There so much they have to twist and destroy to make their believ (or should i call it unbelief?) and the bible come into agreement!

 

[valiant]

That's not really what John 6:39 says. It says that it's not the father's will that any who come to Christ perish. It says nothing about GOD pre-empting man's will.

,

Actually IT DOES. It says WHOM THE FATHER GIVES to me will come to me. THE GIVING IS BEFORE THE COMING.

John 10:28 can be qualified with the condition that no one will be able to pluck any believer out of GOD's hand who is believing. Same thing applies to Romans 8:38-39.

iT says NO ONE IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM FROM THE FATHER'S HAND. tHAT IS why THEY WILL never PERISH