Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[Epiales]

L...,

Isaiah and Psalm does not support us not being able to forsake G-d. Geeeessssch!

Do you understand G-d gave us free will? Look at Adam and Eve they forsake G-d correct?

Hmmm... Do you know realize that God is the one who's faithful?

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Tell me of a saved or unsaved person that's 100 percent faithful in everything? The point is, is God knows this, and it's HIS faithfulness that I stand upon, and He has given me the faith to believe in what He says.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I guess ALL that was given Christ by the Father, doesn't mean all?

I believe scripture, not man. All = ALL. And if you didn't know, the scripture in John is said by JESUS HIMSELF. So the questions I have. Is Christ a liar? Did He mean something other than what He said? Hmmm.....

Be blessed in Christ

EPIALES

 

[garee]

The context is referring to Jews who have departed from the Lord and turned back to Judaism.

Those who do that have no way to be brought back to repentance and have no sacrifice for sin.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

JPT

The scriptures are wriiten to all who will hear the word of God . Compartimizing the Jews as separate

The context is referring to Jews who have departed from the Lord and turned back to Judaism.

Those who do that have no way to be brought back to repentance and have no sacrifice for sin.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

JPT

You are simply creating a context that is not there.

The context is referring to Jews who have departed from the Lord and turned back to Judaism.

Those who do that have no way to be brought back to repentance and have no sacrifice for sin.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

JPT

You are simply creating a context that is not there. The scriptures are written to all who will hear the word of God. It's not a Jewish religion verses a Gentile religion as we did wrestle against flesh and blood. Separating the unconverted Jew from the unconverted Gentile is simply a ploy of the father of lies. Another gospel, another Christ.

 

[justpassinthrough]

The scriptures are wriiten to all who will hear the word of God . Compartimizing the Jews as separate

The context is about Jews but of course it pertains to all who are of the household of faith.

 

[Epiales]

Not talking to children of God? You are joking right?

• how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation,

Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Hebrews 2:1-3

and again


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.



JPT

And again, it's not talking about children of God, but about those Jews that wanted to go back to Old Testament sacrifice and Levitical laws, when they were told all throughout Hebrews that those were all just a foreshadow of a new and better covenant. The whole purpose of the book really. So yeah, if they have heard the teachings of Christ, and they wanted to go and keep cleansing themselves and sanctifying themselves, then hey, they trample the blood of Christ. It's really simple.

Be Blessed In Christ

EPIALES

 

[justpassinthrough]

You are simply creating a context that is not there. The scriptures are written to all who will hear the word of God. It's not a Jewish religion verses a Gentile religion as we did wrestle against flesh and blood. Separating the unconverted Jew from the unconverted Gentile is simply a ploy of the father of lies. Another gospel, another Christ.

Maybe you didn’t actually read the scripture.


Here it is again.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


You do understand that the book of Hebrews is called the book of Hebrews because it was written to the Hebrews, right.

You at least understand that much.


So when I say contextually it means this context is to Hebrews, but it is for all who are the household of faith; The household of Christ.



but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.




5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:5-14



JPT

 

[garee]

Exactly, it was about the Old Testament "foreshadows" of a better and new covenant. That's why it talks so much about what Christ has done for us. Not that it's specifically talking to children of God, but talking to those unbelieving Jews that still wanted to keep the Old Testament for the remission of sins. If one reads the book in it's entirety, and really seeks the Lord in the understanding, this is the only interpretation, as it is backed up with the other 100's of scriptures that show what Christ truly accomplished.

Be blessed in Christ.

EPIALES

The scriptures do not speak to the unbelieving Jew. They simply do not believe prophecy (God's word) and is why they walked away in unbelief. (No faith).... not little but none.

Those kind of Jews were looking for a fleshly God .

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not,(no faith) and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 6

 

[justpassinthrough]

And again, it's not talking about children of God, but about those Jews that wanted to go back to Old Testament sacrifice and Levitical laws, when they were told all throughout Hebrews that those were all just a foreshadow of a new and better covenant. The whole purpose of the book really. So yeah, if they have heard the teachings of Christ, and they wanted to go and keep cleansing themselves and sanctifying themselves, then hey, they trample the blood of Christ. It's really simple.

Be Blessed In Christ

EPIALES

Again, can you read?


how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,


Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Hebrews 2:1-3

again


Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, Hebrews 3:1

• consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

JPT

 

[Epiales]

The scriptures do not speak to the unbelieving Jew. They simply do not believe prophecy (God's word) and is why they walked away in unbelief. (No faith).... not little but none.

Those kind of Jews were looking for a fleshly God .

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not,(no faith) and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. John 6

Whether they don't believe prophecy or the Words, they are still unbelieving in any aspect is the point I am trying to show. Yes, Paul, which I believe the writer to be, talks about WHAT Christ has done for the saved, but he is not talking 'to' the saved, but the unbelieving.

 

[Epiales]

Again, can you read?


how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,


Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Hebrews 2:1-3

again


Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, Hebrews 3:1

• consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

JPT

Haven't you ever heard of this expression in our world today? Let me give you an example.

You go to Wal-Mart with 10 people.... 9 people steal something.... then someone goes around and says... yea, we all went to Wal-Mart and we stole stuff.

Uh... did that include you? Well, if you didn't steal anything, then no. It's simple. Think about what's said without implying something that is not there, let alone, something that refutes 95% of the Bible. Heck, even in the Old Testament it wasn't about works.

 

[Epiales]

Again, can you read?


how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,


Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Hebrews 2:1-3

again


Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, Hebrews 3:1

• consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

JPT

Or how about this. Ever hear a Pastor get behind the pulpit and say...

"GOOD MORNING CHILDREN OF GOD"....

I have... does this mean everyone in the Church are children of God? Course not

That's why it's so important to read context along with other scriptures in order to get a full understanding.

What was Paul going to say...WE neglect so great a salvation, or all you heathen sinners?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

BTW: Scripture also teaches God didn't give us a spirit of fear. And that perfect love casts out fear. So maybe that OT Scripture is saying something different than it might appear. Because Scripture teaches we grow in love by knowing His Love for us.

That word in 2 Timothy 1:7 actually means timidity (towards men)

G1167 δειλία deilia (dei-lee'-ah) n.
1. timidity

For God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power and love and self-discipline. Therefore, do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor me his prisoner, but suffer along with me for the gospel, according to the power of God, 2 Timothy 1:7-8​

 

[PS]

You missed this one and I find it interesting that the term 'fall away' was used by Jesus Christ of His 11 disciples at the time He was being arrested. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to 'fall away'. (see Matthew 21:31-35) Obviously, this is not a loss of salvation.

Apostasy simply means a rejection of God and all I ever intended to say is that OSAS gives a false sense of security, simply because we can become embroiled in the things of the world without realising it.

People who committed apostasy in the Bible can be seen in the wilderness when the Israelites turned to other gods and before they were permitted to enter the Promised Land Joshua found it necessary to re-pledge the entire nation back to Yahweh. (Joshua 24:1-28). Later, their infidelity led to the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. People like Rehoboam, Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehoram, Ahaz, and Manasseh all apostatised

Many of the kings of the divided kingdom apostatized, leading the people, as in the case of Rehoboam, into the grossest forms of idolatry and immorality (1 Kings 14:22-24; 2 Chronicles 12:1). Conspicuous examples of such royal apostasy are Jeroboam (1 Kings 12:28-32); Ahab (1 Kings 16:30-33); Ahaziah (1 Kings 22:51-53); Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:6,10,12-15); Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:1-4); (2 Chronicles 33:1-9); Amen (2 Chronicles 33:22). https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/apostasy-apostate/

In 2Pe 2:14-15 we read of the people following false prophets, "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness.

All that is required from us is that we live a life that is pleasing to God and let us say amen to that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And again, it's not talking about children of God, but about those Jews that wanted to go back to Old Testament sacrifice and Levitical laws, when they were told all throughout Hebrews that those were all just a foreshadow of a new and better covenant. The whole purpose of the book really. So yeah, if they have heard the teachings of Christ, and they wanted to go and keep cleansing themselves and sanctifying themselves, then hey, they trample the blood of Christ. It's really simple.

This statement contradicts itself. Jews who wanted to go back indicates that they were children of GOD, not unbelieving Jews. Unbelieving Jews couldn't return to something they were already in.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Haven't you ever heard of this expression in our world today? Let me give you an example.

You go to Wal-Mart with 10 people.... 9 people steal something.... then someone goes around and says... yea, we all went to Wal-Mart and we stole stuff.

Uh... did that include you? Well, if you didn't steal anything, then no. It's simple. Think about what's said without implying something that is not there, let alone, something that refutes 95% of the Bible. Heck, even in the Old Testament it wasn't about works.

There is no amount of twisting that can undo this verse.


Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, Hebrews 3:1


The book of Hebrews was written to Christians.

Believers in Jesus Christ.



JPT

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Whether they don't believe prophecy or the Words, they are still unbelieving in any aspect is the point I am trying to show. Yes, Paul, which I believe the writer to be, talks about WHAT Christ has done for the saved, but he is not talking 'to' the saved, but the unbelieving.

No evidence for this. (Nor that Paul wrote Hebrews, which I seriously doubt. Not his style at all).

 

[Epiales]

This statement contradicts itself. Jews who wanted to go back indicates that they were children of GOD, not unbelieving Jews. Unbelieving Jews couldn't return to something they were already in.

Easy...

I decide I wanna be Catholic... I go to a Catholic Church... I hear the message... but I didn't want to believe it. I wanted to believe what the Baptist believe. Does that mean I was ever a Catholic? Nope...

It's simple. You can say you want to go to church as an unbeliever. You can even get involved in the study groups and hear about the Word and Jesus Christ, and then say... nope, I'm going back to my old self. This isn't for me. People do it all the time. And these are the people that will fall away in the end times. Those that have truly not received Christ in their hearts. They are self-professing. Just like the one that went to church but never did anything with it. I bet if someone would of asked him if he were a Christian, he might of even said he was.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Or how about this. Ever hear a Pastor get behind the pulpit and say...

"GOOD MORNING CHILDREN OF GOD"....

I have... does this mean everyone in the Church are children of God? Course not

That's why it's so important to read context along with other scriptures in order to get a full understanding.

What was Paul going to say...WE neglect so great a salvation, or all you heathen sinners?

The book of Hebrews was written to those who High Priest and Apostle is Jesus Christ.

• holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed wasfaithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:1-6

• Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JPT

 

[Epiales]

No evidence for this. (Nor that Paul wrote Hebrews, which I seriously doubt. Not his style at all).

Again, either way, you said they did not believe prophecy. Therefore they didn't believe He was Christ the Messiah, therefore; they are 'unbelieving'. The point is, they are not saved. It's a silly thing to discuss, so I"ll move on

 

[garee]

Maybe you didn’t actually read the scripture.


Here it is again.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Nothing there about losing that which one cannot gain to begin with . It would seem you are looking at the word fear as in if one sins they loose there salvation and not if God was to take into account the wage of sin eternal damnation even for the least of sin .who could stand before his throne of Grace and receive mercy. We fear him because he has paid the full wage, not in part, but the whole.

You do understand that the book of Hebrews is called the book of Hebrews because it was written to the Hebrews, right.

You at least understand that much.

I have a habit of revisiting what others call orthodox. I have heard that explanation. I am not sure who named it the book of Hebrews or why? Not saying it does not apply to the born again Hebrews who has the Spirit of Christ and Greek alike .

God puts no difference between believers and believers, or unbelievers and unbelievers. He hides the spiritual understanding in parables form both groups of unbelievers. The Bible is written to those who do believe as he gives us ears to make it possible . the loving commandment is to study to show our approval from Him. Nothing to do with Jewish or Gentile flesh

It begins

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hebrew 1:1

The reformation has come many of those manners as shadows disappeared.

So when I say contextually it means this context is to Hebrews, but it is for all who are the household of faith; The household of Christ. but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

The household of faith has nothing to do with Jewish flesh. There are not separate commandments to the Jews and Gentiles as if God was a respecter of persons.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Again, either way, you said they did not believe prophecy. Therefore they didn't believe He was Christ the Messiah, therefore; they are 'unbelieving'. The point is, they are not saved. It's a silly thing to discuss, so I"ll move on

Is a person who believes, the no longer believes, a believer?


Are they saved when they believe, or is there more that is required to be saved?



JPT