Baptism and holy spirit

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Deade

Deade

Called of God
#781
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#781
Stunnedbygrace said:
Or what about someone who has had throat cancer and their voice box removed? Are you really willing to say they can never pray in spirit?
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You can pray in tongues silently, I do it all the time. I live with others that might think me crazy.



 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#782
Nov 12, 2015
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#782
Deade said:
Yes Stunned, sometimes you get a partial picture of what you are praying about, but it goes so fast that you are left in the dust, so to speak.
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Ah, see!! A tongues speaker who is willing to admit that perhaps if you pray in tongues, you are praying in spirit, does not mean that a nontongues speaker never prays in the spirit.

Besides which, when you pray in tongues, you are not praying with your understanding, does this mean we are never to pray with our understanding? Because you know, the apostle says to pray in spirit at all times. Is he really saying, pray without understanding at all times? No. He said he would pray in tongues/in spirit/ without understanding and he would also pray with his understanding.
You've blessed me so much and made all of the struggle in here worth it!
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#783
Nov 12, 2015
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#783
Deade said:
You can pray in tongues silently, I do it all the time. I live with others that might think me crazy.
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Yes, I know you can speak in tongues silently, without uttering a word. It is very nearly close to how I pray in the spirit - without sound.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#784
Jun 26, 2017
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#784
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes, we know you are convinced of this brother. :LOL:
But Paul did not say: to pray in the spirit is to speak in tongues.
He said: if I pray in tongues, I am praying in spirit.
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Actually Paul said "I will pray with the spirit". The Greek article for "the" is there. Paul is specifically talking about speaking in tongues, not about some nebulous feeling of "praying in spirit".

His statement does not say that it is impossible to pray in spirit any other way, for instance, silently and with no words uttered at all.

Has it occurred to you that you have taken away praying in the spirit from a person who is not capable of producing speech of any sort? What about a deaf and dumb mute?
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They can still speak in tongues to themselves, and to God, in their mind.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#785
Jun 26, 2017
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#785
Stunnedbygrace said:
Or what about someone who has had throat cancer and their voice box removed? Are you really willing to say they can never pray in spirit?
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You're trying to come up with any reason you can think of not to speak in tongues.

They can speak in tongues in their minds, to themselves and to God.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#786
Jun 26, 2017
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#786
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes, I know you can speak in tongues silently, without uttering a word. It is very nearly close to how I pray in the spirit - without sound.
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Where did you get your definition of "praying in the spirit"?

The Bible does encourage us to be "fervent in spirit", but whenever "praying in the spirit" is used, it refers to speaking in tongues.

Can you show me an example of where it doesn't?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#787
Nov 12, 2015
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#787
shrume said:
Actually Paul said "I will pray with the spirit". The Greek article for "the" is there. Paul is specifically talking about speaking in tongues, not about some nebulous feeling of "praying in spirit".


They can still speak in tongues to themselves, and to God, in their mind.
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oh great. Now my praying in the Spirit is "some nebulous feeling." :rolleyes::LOL: you are too much brother! :LOL:
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#788
Nov 12, 2015
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#788
shrume said:
Where did you get your definition of "praying in the spirit"?

The Bible does encourage us to be "fervent in spirit", but whenever "praying in the spirit" is used, it refers to speaking in tongues.

Can you show me an example of where it doesn't?
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Yes! "Pray in the Spirit at all times."
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#791
Jun 26, 2017
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#791
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes! "Pray in the Spirit at all times."
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Eph 6:
18) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

And we know from 1 Cor 14:14-15 that praying in the spirit is speaking in tongues.
 
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shrume

Senior Member
#794
Jun 26, 2017
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#794
Stunnedbygrace said:
you expect praying without the understanding to be easy to explain??:LOL:
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What do you mean by "praying without the understanding"?

Gotta run for awhile, back later.

You're the best, SBG!
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#796
Nov 12, 2015
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#796
shrume said:
What do you mean by "praying without the understanding"?

Gotta run for awhile, back later.

You're the best, SBG!
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have you read my posts where I tried as best I could to explain it...??
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#797
Nov 12, 2015
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#797
In fact, according to you, we could replace pray in spirit at all times to: pray in tongues at all times. Hence, at all times you would be praying without your understanding. Capiche? And you're the best too bratty brother.
Stunnedbygrace said:
not if you pray at all times in spirit and praying in spirit has to be in tongues and praying with tongues is praying without the understanding, you dont.
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Noose

Senior Member
#798
Apr 18, 2016
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#798
shrume said:
Where did you get your definition of "praying in the spirit"?

The Bible does encourage us to be "fervent in spirit", but whenever "praying in the spirit" is used, it refers to speaking in tongues.

Can you show me an example of where it doesn't?
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The bible doesn't encourage anyone to speak in tongues at any moment and praying in the spirit has nothing to do with speaking incomprehensible words, just like worshiping in truth and spirit, praying in the spirit is God communing with God within our minds- means we get understanding and nothing more.

In case you didn't know, spirit is a mind. Praying or worshiping in the spirit means praying or worshiping in the mind.

You have to understand that signs and wonders was crucial for the disciples and apostles and the early church but that promise doesn't apply today because we are in a different time/season.

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

You can not pick out speaking in tongues out of a very long list and tell us that it is the only one that is applicable to us, when did others cease?
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#799
Jan 18, 2016
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#799
Stunnedbygrace said:
I realized a long time ago, amid some confusion, that some things I was reading by some old saints and some things I heard living people say - sounded like they were talking about different things when in actuality, they were all speaking of the same thing and just using the only words they could find to describe it.

For instance, when I say I am so thirsty and He has put me on a fast in spirit, other men will try to describe the same experience but will use different words. They might say: oh man, I really need a word. Or, it's like God won't listen to me right now. Or, has God abandoned me?? Or, it's like all of my light just suddenly disappeared.

To then see these men all get into a vicious argument saying each other is wrong when they are describing the same thing is ridiculous. I wish they could try to set their mind on understanding rather than fighting. (Not that we are viciously fighting in here, but it is being avowed that I have never prayed in the spirit and it puzzles me that they can't read what I've said and make the connection and say, that sounds suspiciously accurate for what I experience when I pray in tongues, maybe I could be wrong in assuming that the only way to pray in the spirit is with tongues. Maybe others really do experience what I have but without words...)

If we could drop our many insistences, I think we would see that God does not speak to each of His children by some formula for one and all.
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It could very well be that the Spirit gives tongues to people that really need reassurance.... to shore up their faith. We don't know why the Spirit does what he does...
The idea that not all of us have the same ability, or gift, or manifestation is clearly shown in Corinthians. It's not difficult to understand.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#800
May 17, 2013
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#800
CS1 said:
the full context of the three chapters , Paul says as the Holy Spirit leads him in verse 5

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a] for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

he said I wish you all spoke but even more prophesied then here said the gift of prophecy is greater UNLESS there is an interpreation which will too edify the church.

Now if the issue is a lesser gift then seek to prophesies . This was not said to oppose what was spoken for the sake of speaking.
1cor 12 tell use what all the unity chapters are for which in clude 13, and 14


verse 1 :
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:

This letter did not oppose The gifts the letter was writtten to instruct on how to properly use the Gifts of the Holy Spirit
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1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Context of Corinthians is to describe how the church at Corinth was out of order. Paul was not there in person so he wrote to them to get their house in order.

In every case in Corinth Paul was down playing tongues. Corinthians were over playing tongues to their detriment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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