Baptism and holy spirit
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You are so wrong.
There is no injunction to pray in tongues. None.
Those who have a real relationship with the Savior approach without fear and have no need of tongues. The Father welcomes His children into His presence with grace and mercy.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There is no injunction to pray in tongues. None.
Those who have a real relationship with the Savior approach without fear and have no need of tongues. The Father welcomes His children into His presence with grace and mercy.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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First, God through both the scriptures and prophecy declares this. Not me.
Wherefore, I give you to understand that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus.
And no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Corinthians 12:3
18 Who told you that in the last time there should come mockers, walking according to their own desires in ungodlinesses.
19 These are they who separate themselves, sensual men, having not the Spirit.
20 But you, my beloved, building yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jude 1:
Wherefore, I give you to understand that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus.
And no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Corinthians 12:3
18 Who told you that in the last time there should come mockers, walking according to their own desires in ungodlinesses.
19 These are they who separate themselves, sensual men, having not the Spirit.
20 But you, my beloved, building yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jude 1:
You poor misguided fool.
I believe in speaking in tongues, and do so, and I believe God wants all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5). Your false assertion that the Bible says that if a person does not speak in tongues he does not have the Holy Spirit and is not saved is flatly false. It's people like you that make all of us who believe in the manifestations look stupid.
There is NO scripture that states that if a person does not speak in tongues he does not have the Holy Spirit and is not saved.
1 Cor 12:3 does not say that if a person does not speak in tongues he is not saved.
You alienate yourself and everyone else who believes in the manifestations. If your church teaches that only Pentecostals are saved, you need a new church.
I believe in speaking in tongues, and do so, and I believe God wants all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5). Your false assertion that the Bible says that if a person does not speak in tongues he does not have the Holy Spirit and is not saved is flatly false. It's people like you that make all of us who believe in the manifestations look stupid.
There is NO scripture that states that if a person does not speak in tongues he does not have the Holy Spirit and is not saved.
1 Cor 12:3 does not say that if a person does not speak in tongues he is not saved.
You alienate yourself and everyone else who believes in the manifestations. If your church teaches that only Pentecostals are saved, you need a new church.
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1 Cor 12:3 Is speaking about the necessity of the Holy Spirit in a mans heart but not about tongues. Tongues do not enter into the passage until verse 10 and then after the other gifts or diversities of operations.
Jude is speaking of apostates. The theme of Jude is apostates or false teachers and our responsibility to contend for the faith.
The theme of 1 Cor is Christian conduct.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jude is speaking of apostates. The theme of Jude is apostates or false teachers and our responsibility to contend for the faith.
The theme of 1 Cor is Christian conduct.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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1 Cor 12:
3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
"speaking by the spirit of God" is speaking in tongues.
Jude
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
"Praying in the Holy Ghost" is speaking in tongues (cp 1 Cor 14:15, also Eph 6:18)
Chapters 12-14 are about the proper use of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
"speaking by the spirit of God" is speaking in tongues.
Jude
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
"Praying in the Holy Ghost" is speaking in tongues (cp 1 Cor 14:15, also Eph 6:18)
Chapters 12-14 are about the proper use of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Here you are just as wrong as the other guy. Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in tongues. Praying in the Holy Spirit is allowing the Holy Spirit to guide your thoughts and emotions as you pray about something very important or meaningful. We see this as the Holy Spirit interceding for us with groanings that cannot be uttered.
Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
You make too much importance of tongues and not enough of Christ of Whom the Holy Spirit teaches.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
You make too much importance of tongues and not enough of Christ of Whom the Holy Spirit teaches.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Praying in the Holy Spirit is most certainly speaking in tongues.
1 Cor 14:
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
How is the Holy Spirit interceding with groanings that cannot be uttered guiding my thoughts and emotions?
We disagree on this topic, Roger, but please never falsely accuse me of not placing enough importance on Christ. That's nothing but a cheap shot.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior. Without him, nobody could be saved.
1 Cor 14:
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
How is the Holy Spirit interceding with groanings that cannot be uttered guiding my thoughts and emotions?
We disagree on this topic, Roger, but please never falsely accuse me of not placing enough importance on Christ. That's nothing but a cheap shot.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior. Without him, nobody could be saved.
1 Cor 14:14-15 You are confusing yourself here in this passage. I know you want it to say that praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues but that is not what is written in the passage. Paul clearly says that if he prays in an unknown tongue his spirit prays. Pauls spirit is not the Holy Spirit. When you dissect the passage it becomes clear that Paul is not advocating praying in tongues.
So I guess that you have never prayed with such intensity that you could not express what was in your heart?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
So I guess that you have never prayed with such intensity that you could not express what was in your heart?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I do not understand how you come up with some of the things you do, Roger.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Actually, I have, and do.
Gotta run for awhile.
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Actually, I have, and do.
Gotta run for awhile.
again if you have a issue with my response in context to the point of " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " that is your issue not mine.
lets look at what I did say shall we in context your post ?
you said:
"I do not have the ability to speak in tongues, If God wanted me to do it, He would.
Again, It says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth.
Not everyone has the gift of tongues, I do not know who told you that, but they are wrong.
Bit I digress, Will not bash my sister on this non salvic doctrine. "
I responded:
"The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .
there were you say: "Again, it says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth".
What i'm pointing out is chapters 13, and 14 of 1cor tell us more .
chapter 12
1. the Holy Spirit gives the gifts to whom HE desires as you have correctly said
2. chapter 13 tell us the gifts are to be operated in Love
3. Chapter 14 tell us how to use them and to desire them and pray to be used by them.
Nothing in my response was about you however, if you think that if God wants you to be used in the Gifts HE will cause you to do so, I do not see in scripture were that happend in context to 1cor 12, 13, and 14. The Holy Spirit provides the ability you do the action.
lets look at what I did say shall we in context your post ?
you said:
"I do not have the ability to speak in tongues, If God wanted me to do it, He would.
Again, It says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth.
Not everyone has the gift of tongues, I do not know who told you that, but they are wrong.
Bit I digress, Will not bash my sister on this non salvic doctrine. "
I responded:
"The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .
there were you say: "Again, it says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth".
What i'm pointing out is chapters 13, and 14 of 1cor tell us more .
chapter 12
1. the Holy Spirit gives the gifts to whom HE desires as you have correctly said
2. chapter 13 tell us the gifts are to be operated in Love
3. Chapter 14 tell us how to use them and to desire them and pray to be used by them.
Nothing in my response was about you however, if you think that if God wants you to be used in the Gifts HE will cause you to do so, I do not see in scripture were that happend in context to 1cor 12, 13, and 14. The Holy Spirit provides the ability you do the action.