Baptism and holy spirit

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Feb 21, 2012
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Pb, I think it's great that you have healed people of sicknesses and effected great miracles. That I do not agree with you on some things does not take away from my happiness that you have been given to do these things! :)
I haven't . . . doesn't mean I can't! It takes great faith (also listed in the manifestations, and if you notice it is listed with gifts of healing, miraculous powers) to do that and I ain't there yet. I really never said I manifested ALL nine . . . I hear from God word of wisdom and word of knowledge in given situations in my life, I do speak in tongues and I have spoke in tongues and interpreted in a church gathering, I can discern spirits - Am I proficient in all these? I do my best as God energizes me. It doesn't matter if I manifested anything at all - what matters is what God tells us.

I know you are poking a little fun at me!
 
Feb 21, 2012
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lol. Yes we are all people. You assume that is what his context is. I do not think it is,

We are not all just people. we are individually crafted, each with a different part. Christ is the head. the rest of us are induvidually different parts of the body, this we are all different.
Oh well . . . still doesn't change the fact that God says the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for the common good. I can't help it if no one can see that "another" is not talking about the person but the manifestation . . . Just sets up the biggest contradiction there is right there in 4 little verses.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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I haven't . . . doesn't mean I can't! It takes great faith (also listed in the manifestations, and if you notice it is listed with gifts of healing, miraculous powers) to do that and I ain't there yet. I really never said I manifested ALL nine . . . I hear from God word of wisdom and word of knowledge in given situations in my life, I do speak in tongues and I have spoke in tongues and interpreted in a church gathering, I can discern spirits - Am I proficient in all these? I do my best as God energizes me. It doesn't matter if I manifested anything at all - what matters is what God tells us.

I know you are poking a little fun at me!
Naw...not poking fun. Just trying to make a slight point. :)
Now as to some of the gifts requiring greater faith, I suspect a side conversation will start up on that...
 

Stunnedbygrace

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Nov 12, 2015
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I can't help it if no one can see that "another" is not talking about the person but the manifestation . . .
Then...it would really read thus: and to another manifestation is given the manifestation of tongues...? You do not think the word another is referring to another person? That does not make sense in the English language PB...
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Naw...not poking fun. Just trying to make a slight point. :)
Now as to some of the gifts requiring greater faith, I suspect a side conversation will start up on that...
I'm not talking about having more faith/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation - but the manifestation of faith - walking out in belief for healing and for miracles. When I got cancer, I prayed for healing and I could really trust in it for about 10 minutes sometimes less than that before doubt and fear would take over - I knew that my belief for healing would have to come by trusting in God to work with the doctors that I had and the procedures that I went through . . .
 

Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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I am a tongue speaking Protestant!!! LOL!
If you can pray in tongues you have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I hope that you are also baptised by full immersion as Jesus and the apostles command us to do.

As to where you go and fellowship that is between you and the Lord.
But a Spirit-filled disciple ought to be in a Spirit-filled church, not in another doctrine that preaches another gospel.
It is like being a square peg in a round hole, a fish out of water …
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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I'm not talking about having more faith/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation - but the manifestation of faith
It still isn't quite making sense to me. You said about healing that you weren't quite there yet because it required great faith to heal. Wouldn't it be more apt then, considering your above post, to say you can absolutely heal, you have the ability to do that, but because He has not given you the manifestation of faith (in the list of manifestations), you have not been able to heal.

This puts the onus on the Holy Spirit. He cannot expect you to manifest healing unless He first manifests faith in you. Or...it rather appears that the onus might be on you...I'm not sure...
 
Feb 21, 2012
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It still isn't quite making sense to me. You said about healing that you weren't quite there yet because it required great faith to heal. Wouldn't it be more apt then, considering your above post, to say you can absolutely heal, you have the ability to do that, but because He has not given you the manifestation of faith (in the list of manifestations), you have not been able to heal.

This puts the onus on the Holy Spirit. He cannot expect you to manifest healing unless He first manifests faith in you. Or...it rather appears that the onus might be on you...I'm not sure...
A manifestation is something that is brought forth. Someone can carry the chickenpox virus without any one knowing until that virus manifest itself in blisters.

The gift of holy spirit is a given by God to the believer. It is up to the believer to believe in faith to operate and bring that gift into manifestation. God does not possess people - He gave us a gift - we are to manifest it. One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . open their mouth and wait for God to speak in tongues through them . . . will they speak in tongues?
One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . believe that they can manifest what God has given them and start speaking using their lips, tongue, vocal box (the mechanics of speaking) and God will give them a language to speak. When God told Moses to "stretch forth his hand" during the plagues on Pharaoh - did God take his hand and stretch it forth for him? Moses had to act in faith and do what God had told him by revelation. If he just stood there and didn't act in faith - nothing would have happened. It's all in how much do we trust what God says.

As for healing - God will tell us when to pray for someone and what to pray about - I don't have a problem with praying for others for healing . . . I think my explanation had to do with MYSELF . . . I can believe for someone else to be healed, I can trust God to heal them- no problem!
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Why would Paul encourage an activity that was not fruitful in the life of a believer?

Proverbs speaks often of the importance of knowledge, understanding and wisdom.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul said: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful . . . . Here is how it is related - For he that speaks in a tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God; for no man understands; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries (secrets).

His understanding is unfruitful but he is being spiritually edified. - He that speaks in a tongue edifies himself . . .

Yea, Proverbs does speak often of the importance of knowledge, understanding and wisdom . . . and we are not to be ignorant of spiritual matters. - So get wisdom, get knowledge. ;)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
A manifestation is something that is brought forth. Someone can carry the chickenpox virus without any one knowing until that virus manifest itself in blisters.

The gift of holy spirit is a given by God to the believer. It is up to the believer to believe in faith to operate and bring that gift into manifestation. God does not possess people - He gave us a gift - we are to manifest it. One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . open their mouth and wait for God to speak in tongues through them . . . will they speak in tongues?
One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . believe that they can manifest what God has given them and start speaking using their lips, tongue, vocal box (the mechanics of speaking) and God will give them a language to speak. When God told Moses to "stretch forth his hand" during the plagues on Pharaoh - did God take his hand and stretch it forth for him? Moses had to act in faith and do what God had told him by revelation. If he just stood there and didn't act in faith - nothing would have happened. It's all in how much do we trust what God says.


As for healing - God will tell us when to pray for someone and what to pray about - I don't have a problem with praying for others for healing . . . I think my explanation had to do with MYSELF . . . I can believe for someone else to be healed, I can trust God to heal them- no problem!
I see what your saying, but the passage does nit say th mgift is manifested, it says th HS is, he is manifested when someone uses,one of his many gifts
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh well . . . still doesn't change the fact that God says the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man for the common good. I can't help it if no one can see that "another" is not talking about the person but the manifestation . . . Just sets up the biggest contradiction there is right there in 4 little verses.
Your not seeing what i am saying, i agree, the manifestatin OF THE SPIRIT is given to all, through one or more if the many gifts he empowers people,

The manifestation of the spirit is a gift, not all, he gives induvidually as he wills.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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A manifestation is something that is brought forth. Someone can carry the chickenpox virus without any one knowing until that virus manifest itself in blisters.

The gift of holy spirit is a given by God to the believer. It is up to the believer to believe in faith to operate and bring that gift into manifestation. God does not possess people - He gave us a gift - we are to manifest it. One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . open their mouth and wait for God to speak in tongues through them . . . will they speak in tongues?
One can say, I want to speak in tongues . . . believe that they can manifest what God has given them and start speaking using their lips, tongue, vocal box (the mechanics of speaking) and God will give them a language to speak. When God told Moses to "stretch forth his hand" during the plagues on Pharaoh - did God take his hand and stretch it forth for him? Moses had to act in faith and do what God had told him by revelation. If he just stood there and didn't act in faith - nothing would have happened. It's all in how much do we trust what God says.


As for healing - God will tell us when to pray for someone and what to pray about - I don't have a problem with praying for others for healing . . . I think my explanation had to do with MYSELF . . . I can believe for someone else to be healed, I can trust God to heal them- no problem!
Okay, so...when you said you weren't there yet where you had ever healed anyone because it took a lot of faith and you just weren't there yet, you meant that you were referring to healing for yourself that you didn't have enough faith for, but that God tells you when to pray for someone elses healing and when He does you DO have faith for that and no problem with that, and you pray as He tells you. But then why haven't your prayers, at His direction, healed anyone?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Really??
Please list and show us all.

I hope you are not confusing ministries with gifts?
Minstries are enabled by gift, a prophet has th gift of prophesy, a pastor has the gift if shepherding, a teacher has a gift, of speakimg and teaching, etc etc.

Maybe you should focus more on how to reach the world (others)than what gift gid may have gave you (self)
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Minstries are enabled by gift, a prophet has th gift of prophesy, a pastor has the gift if shepherding, a teacher has a gift, of speakimg and teaching, etc etc.

Maybe you should focus more on how to reach the world (others)than what gift gid may have gave you (self)
Ephesians tells us that the five-fold is for equipping, they equip people to follow after their own pattern and to grow in Christ. They have a grace that is imparted on others. I have found this grace releases both the desire and the equipment to follow Christ in the way they do.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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I see what your saying, but the passage does nit say th mgift is manifested, it says th HS is, he is manifested when someone uses,one of his many gifts
The manifestation of the spirit . . . does not say "the HOLY SPIRIT" is manifested. The manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. What did we receive that we can manifest? God, THE Holy Spirit, is the giver, the gift is holy spirit. It is the gift of holy spirit that is to be manifested - brought forth.

Word Studies on the Holy Spirit, E.W. Bullinger, 1 Cor. 12:7 "Here, again, it is what is given by the great Giver (the Holy Spirit) as indicated by the context and the article. The A.V. (Eastern Greek text) of 1611 had "s". Current editions and R.V. (Western Greek Text) have "S".

 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Scripture says to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. I have found that many people don’t desire them, not sure why, but when I read Paul said ask for prophesy, I did. And suddenly I started to see it manifest. I’ve seen people healed, saved, and set free from the power of the Spirit revealed through His gifts. Paul also says that according to the faith we’ve been given we are to operate. So there is a desire and also a sober mindedness at the same time. However, faith is a fruit. And Jesus IS the Author and Finisher of our faith. And it alone pleases Him. So, I pray I would be a good receiver and steward of His imparted faith in me.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Your not seeing what i am saying, i agree, the manifestatin OF THE SPIRIT is given to all, through one or more if the many gifts he empowers people,

The manifestation of the spirit is a gift, not all, he gives induvidually as he wills.
There is ONE gift that cannot be seen unless it is manifested, brought forth - the gift of holy spirit which we receive when we repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38). This gift of holy spirit given to each believer can be manifested in nine ways. Just as the fruit of the spirit can be manifested in nine ways.

If I had one of the gift ministries - say a preacher . . . everyone would know that I am a preacher, it would be readily noticeable no need to "manifest" it. But when one is born again and receives the gift of holy spirit - how do we know? The manifestation of the spirit is NOT a gift - It is a manifestation. A gift is something voluntarily given by one person to another without compensation. God gives us the gift of holy spirit - it is not readily perceived by the senses but when it is manifested it is something that is readily perceived by the senses. Gift and manifestation are two completely different things.

As I have said before - we all receive the gift of holy spirit - the manifestation of said gift of holy spirit is given to every man to profit withal - it is the Lord who energizes as he purposes "all" the manifestations and spiritual things talked about in this chapter. That is how things are done decently and in order in a church meeting. Every believer has the power of holy spirit, but the way that power will be used at any given time depends on the purposes of God and upon our faith and willingness to step out and use the gift we have been given. Look, someone can give me a gift - I don't have to open it to manifest it - It can stay wrapped up in the box but I will never see it, I will never use it, I will never know the potential of that gift if I don't open it and use it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The manifestation of the spirit . . . does not say "the HOLY SPIRIT" is manifested. The manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. What did we receive that we can manifest? God, THE Holy Spirit, is the giver, the gift is holy spirit. It is the gift of holy spirit that is to be manifested - brought forth.

Word Studies on the Holy Spirit, E.W. Bullinger, 1 Cor. 12:7 "Here, again, it is what is given by the great Giver (the Holy Spirit) as indicated by the context and the article. The A.V. (Eastern Greek text) of 1611 had "s". Current editions and R.V. (Western Greek Text) have "S".
The HS is manifested in each gift, as he gives to,eqch induvidually as he desires

I have commentators too

The bible knowledge commentary, john Walford, Roy Zuck

Paul had referred to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in verse 3. Now in reverse order he stressed the unity of the Godhead in relation to the different spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts (cf. “Spirit” in vv. 7–9, 11) so that individuals can serve the Lord and His body, the church, in various ways (cf. vv. 7, 27), all empowered by God and exercised under His aegis (cf. vv. 18, 24). Though there are different kinds (diaireseis) of gifts … service, and working, the same Spirit … the same Lord (Christ), and the same God are involved in all of them.
12:7–10. The gifts had a unity in source (vv. 4–6), and they also had a unity in purpose. They were given, not for personal enrichment (cf. 14:4; 1 Peter 4:10), but for the common good of the body of Christ, the building up of others (1 Cor. 10:24; 14:12). Paul listed some of the gifts here. Others, along with some of these, are given in Romans 12:6–8; 1 Corinthians 12:28–31; Ephesians 4:11; 1 Peter 4:10–11.
The list here includes nine gifts. (1) Wisdom refers to insight into doctrinal truth. Paul exercised and expressed this gift in this letter (e.g., 2:6). (2) Knowledge refers to the ability to apply doctrinal truth to life. Paul also exercised and expressed this gift in this letter (e.g., 12:1–3; 11:3). (Cf. the recurrence of the phrase “Do you not know” in 3:16; 5:6; 6:2–3, 9, 15–16, 19; 9:13, 24; also cf. 8:1–3, 10–11). (3) Faith as a spiritual gift is probably an unusual measure of trust in God beyond that exercised by most Christians (e.g., 13:2). (4) Healing is the ability to restore health (e.g., Acts 3:7; 19:12) and also to hold off death itself temporarily (Acts 9:40; 20:9–10). (5) Miraculous powers may refer to exorcising demons (Acts 19:12) or inducing physical disability (Acts 13:11) or even death (Acts 5:5, 9). (6) Prophecy is the ability, like that of the Old Testament prophets, to declare a message of God for His people (1 Cor. 14:3). (7) Ability to distinguish between spirits is the gift to differentiate the Word of God proclaimed by a true prophet from that of a satanic deceiver (cf. 2 Cor. 11:14–15; 1 John 4:1). If the Corinthians possessed this gift (cf. 1 Cor. 1:7), it was not being put to good use (cf. 12:1–3). (8) Tongues refers to the ability to speak an unlearned, living language (e.g., Acts 2:11). (9) Interpretation was the ability to translate an unlearned, known language expressed in the assembly (1 Cor. 14:27).
With the possible exception of faith, all these gifts seem to have been confirmatory and foundational gifts for the establishment of the church (cf. Heb. 2:4; Eph. 2:20) and were therefore temporary.
12:11. The gifts were not meant to be selected by individuals or personally solicited by them, but were instead given by the … Spirit … as He determined. “The Spirit” is referred to six times in verses 7–11.
12:12. This verse forms an excellent three-part summary of the rest of the chapter. (a) The human body is a unit (cf. v. 13 on the unity of the body of Christ). (b) The human body has many parts, with a necessary diversity in its members (cf. vv. 14–20). (c) The parts of the human body work together as one, with a dependent mutuality as each part fulfills an important function (cf. vv. 21–26). Likewise the body of Christ has a diversity of parts functioning together (vv. 27–30).
12:13. The One who gave the diverse gifts, the Spirit, was also the medium in which, by which, and with which (possible translations of the Gr. preposition en; cf. Matt. 3:11) that unity exists. The baptism of the Spirit is experienced by all who believe, at the moment of salvation (cf. Rom. 8:9). In that baptism, believers, regardless of nationality (whether Jews or Greeks) or station of life (slave or free), are identified with Christ (baptized … into one body) and are indwelt by the Spirit (given the one Spirit to drink; cf. John 4:14; 7:38–39).
12:14–20. Different parts are needed if a body is to exist (v. 19). So too, no believer should think of himself or his gift as inferior and so desire another member’s gift. The gifts were not haphazardly distributed (cf. v. 11) but carefully arranged according to the perfect will of God (v. 18).
12:21–26. In the diversity of the bodily parts there was a corresponding mutual dependence. A person with a seemingly greater gift should not imagine that he could function alone since a bodily member cut off from the natural body would cease to exist. More importantly, one thought to possess a lesser gift should in fact be accorded greater attention by the other members of the body (cf. 14:1–5) just as in the natural body special deference in attention to dress is paid to those parts of the body deemed less presentable (12:22–24). Possibly Paul was reaching back in thought beyond the immediate discussion of gifts when he referred to weaker members (v. 22; cf. 8:7–13) and less honorable ones (12:23; cf. 11:22) who also required special care and consideration. This too was part of God’s plan (God … combined the members), that members of the spiritual body would demonstrate a mutual concern for the well-being of others (12:25b–26; 10:24, 33) so that rivalry would cease (so that there should be no division in the body; 1:10; 11:18) and genuine unity would exist (12:26).
12:27–31a. The unifying member in the spiritual body is Christ. As the Head (Eph. 1:22; cf. 1 Cor. 11:3) He possesses the body and sovereignly expresses His will. His command is that love should prevail among the members (John 15:12). This was the force which would maintain unity within the diversity and to this subject Paul would shortly move (1 Cor. 12:31b 13:13).
For a third time (cf. 12:18, 24, 28), however, Paul stressed the fact that God, not man, assigned the gifts. As he discussed another sample of gifts (some repeated from vv. 7–10 and some new), it was the members, the people so gifted, to whom he referred. Since the gifts included in the two lists in this chapter contain novelty and redundancy (which is the case elsewhere in passages detailing gifts, e.g., Rom. 12:6–8; Eph. 4:11; 1 Peter 4:10–11—the gift of teaching being the only gift which appears in each list), probably no complete catalog existed.