Oh goody another OSAS thread!
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We either accept Christ's gift to us or we don't. We either believe in Him or we don't. We either live in His laws and commands, following Him in all we do or we don't.
Christ is either in you or he's not.
I honestly believe that if you have genuinely accepted him into your heart as your Lord and Savior, you cannot lose your salvation.
I think for anyone to think they can lose their salvation...means they should maybe reassess whether or not Christ is actually a part of their life.
God will never leave or forsake you....so if you truly do believe in him, why would he revoke your salvation?
It just does not make sense to me any other way.
Futhermore, just because you are saved does NOT mean you can live however you please....the Bible makes that perfectly clear...so you can't ask for God today to come into your heart and continue life your way the rest of your life...and if that's the case then I'd say you never really accepted Christ to begin with...
That's just what I believe.
Christ is either in you or he's not.
I honestly believe that if you have genuinely accepted him into your heart as your Lord and Savior, you cannot lose your salvation.
I think for anyone to think they can lose their salvation...means they should maybe reassess whether or not Christ is actually a part of their life.
God will never leave or forsake you....so if you truly do believe in him, why would he revoke your salvation?
It just does not make sense to me any other way.
Futhermore, just because you are saved does NOT mean you can live however you please....the Bible makes that perfectly clear...so you can't ask for God today to come into your heart and continue life your way the rest of your life...and if that's the case then I'd say you never really accepted Christ to begin with...
That's just what I believe.
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No, "justified by works" (James 2:21) does not mean that Abraham was saved by works when he obeyed God by offering his son Issac on the altar. *Once again, In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed/proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."
*Scripture must harmonize with Scripture. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was "justified by works," (accounted as righteous in this context) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
*The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show or prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. *Perfect Harmony*
The good news was preached to Abraham that in him all the nations shall be blessed, now where does it say in Genesis 12 that Abraham was "justified" simply by going out of his country, from his family and his father's house to see a land that God will show him? That's only part of the story and yes it was by or "out of" faith that Abraham went, just as it's by or "out of" faith that believers obey God, BUT it was not until Genesis 15:5, AFTER God brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” *VERSE 6 - And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. *Just as we see in Romans 4:3 - “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
That was the good news of the kingdom preached to Israel (Matthew 3:2). In this dispensation (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-12), the Gospel is the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To BELIEVE the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation and NOT IN OUR WORKS.
When we repent we "change our mind" and BELIEVE the Gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. We then turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God and become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). Praise God!
I see that you are still confused about Romans 10:10 and interpret "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" as if it's a distinct, additional requirement to become saved AFTER we believe the Gospel. *Please pay attention: Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. *NOT TWO SEPERATE STEPS TO SALVATION BUT CHRONOLOGICALLY TOGETHER.*
So what about someone who is handicapped (moot) and cannot speak? How can they confess with their mouth? Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
Once again, 1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.
So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit as a work for salvation is not unto salvation.
*Scripture must harmonize with Scripture. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was "justified by works," (accounted as righteous in this context) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
*The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show or prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. *Perfect Harmony*
The good news was preached to Abraham that in him all the nations shall be blessed, now where does it say in Genesis 12 that Abraham was "justified" simply by going out of his country, from his family and his father's house to see a land that God will show him? That's only part of the story and yes it was by or "out of" faith that Abraham went, just as it's by or "out of" faith that believers obey God, BUT it was not until Genesis 15:5, AFTER God brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” *VERSE 6 - And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. *Just as we see in Romans 4:3 - “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
That was the good news of the kingdom preached to Israel (Matthew 3:2). In this dispensation (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-12), the Gospel is the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To BELIEVE the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation and NOT IN OUR WORKS.
When we repent we "change our mind" and BELIEVE the Gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. We then turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God and become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). Praise God!
I see that you are still confused about Romans 10:10 and interpret "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" as if it's a distinct, additional requirement to become saved AFTER we believe the Gospel. *Please pay attention: Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. *NOT TWO SEPERATE STEPS TO SALVATION BUT CHRONOLOGICALLY TOGETHER.*
So what about someone who is handicapped (moot) and cannot speak? How can they confess with their mouth? Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
Once again, 1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.
So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit as a work for salvation is not unto salvation.
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It's your false interpretation that explains away what James says in James 2:14-26 and what Paul says in Romans 4:2-3 and Ephesians 2:8,9.
I did in light of the CONTEXT and in harmony with what Paul said. You read the scripture through the lens of your preconceived beliefs.
Once again, in James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
Abraham was justified "shown to be righteous" by his works (James 2:21) long after he was justified "accounted as righteous" by faith" (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years before he offered Isaac his son and faith "made perfect or complete" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
So as we can plainly see, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
I reconciled Scripture and you explained it way. *After properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, it's crystal clear that man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
I did in light of the CONTEXT and in harmony with what Paul said. You read the scripture through the lens of your preconceived beliefs.
Once again, in James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
Abraham was justified "shown to be righteous" by his works (James 2:21) long after he was justified "accounted as righteous" by faith" (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years before he offered Isaac his son and faith "made perfect or complete" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
So as we can plainly see, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
I reconciled Scripture and you explained it way. *After properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, it's crystal clear that man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
I did not make up vicious lies or represent what people say. I can see that the sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts! No need for you to make slanderous remarks.
I have dealt with the scripture and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine WHICH YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO.
Obedience to the Gospel is choosing to believe the Gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; 10:16). The Gospel is not a check list of works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
Now what do we read in Galatians 1:11-12 and Ephesians 3:1-12? This will probably get too deep for you.
We repent in the process of changing our mind and choosing to believe the Gospel. The rest is turning away from Satan and to Jesus as Lord.
The Gospel is not saved by confession AFTER one believes the Gospel. Is that what we read in Romans 1:16? What about Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6 etc..? What happened to your separate, distinct additional requirement of confession for salvation in those passages of scripture? You are still misunderstanding Romans 10:9,10 and are turning confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord into an additional requirement to become saved AFTER one believes the Gospel as if we believe today (but are still lost) then confess next week (and are finally saved next week). Everyone in the world who is moot and cannot speak would also remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
Be sure to go back and read post #583 and meditate on the truth until it sinks in and quit fighting the truth.
I have dealt with the scripture and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine WHICH YOU HAVE FAILED TO DO.
Obedience to the Gospel is choosing to believe the Gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; 10:16). The Gospel is not a check list of works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
Now what do we read in Galatians 1:11-12 and Ephesians 3:1-12? This will probably get too deep for you.
We repent in the process of changing our mind and choosing to believe the Gospel. The rest is turning away from Satan and to Jesus as Lord.
The Gospel is not saved by confession AFTER one believes the Gospel. Is that what we read in Romans 1:16? What about Romans 3:22-28; 4:4-6 etc..? What happened to your separate, distinct additional requirement of confession for salvation in those passages of scripture? You are still misunderstanding Romans 10:9,10 and are turning confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord into an additional requirement to become saved AFTER one believes the Gospel as if we believe today (but are still lost) then confess next week (and are finally saved next week). Everyone in the world who is moot and cannot speak would also remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10.
Be sure to go back and read post #583 and meditate on the truth until it sinks in and quit fighting the truth.
You certainly are wrong again. Now you accuse me of making up things? You continue to read the Bible through the lens of your preconceived beliefs. As I already shared with you in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. *NOT TWO SEPERATE STEPS TO SALVATION BUT CHRONOLOGICALLY TOGETHER.*
Let's see how your interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 (turning confession with your mouth) into a distinct, additional requirement to become saved "AFTER" one believes/places faith in Christ for salvation harmonizes with other scripture.
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. *What happened to confession? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *What happened to confession? In Ephesians 2:8-9, we read that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. *What happened to confession? *HERMENEUTICS.
This is what happens when you fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and instead isolate your pet verses (ignore the context) build doctrine on your isolated pet verses, and also ignore what the rest of scripture says. That's called 'flawed hermeneutics."
Let's see how your interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 (turning confession with your mouth) into a distinct, additional requirement to become saved "AFTER" one believes/places faith in Christ for salvation harmonizes with other scripture.
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. *What happened to confession? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *What happened to confession? In Ephesians 2:8-9, we read that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. *What happened to confession? *HERMENEUTICS.
This is what happens when you fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and instead isolate your pet verses (ignore the context) build doctrine on your isolated pet verses, and also ignore what the rest of scripture says. That's called 'flawed hermeneutics."
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. *NOT TWO SEPERATE STEPS TO SALVATION BUT CHRONOLOGICALLY TOGETHER.*
Case closed!
Case closed!
E
Amen, it is a result of true repentance, you say in your heart, i failed at being lord, it is leading me to hell, i will rely on the one true lord and God, and allow him to do what is required to change my state. The problem with many is they do nt want to give up the Lord part, they want to keep some of it, so they have not yet truely repented,
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People who try to turn confession into a work for salvation, usually end up turning salvation into a 4 step plan, such as 1. Believe 2. Repent 3. Confess 4. Be baptized (typical CoC formula) then after all 4 steps are complete the person is finally saved, which is a false plan of salvation. Such people reverse the scriptural order of repent and believe and turn believe into "mere mental" assent belief in Christ "conjoined with works" followed by turning repentance into self moral-reformation, then followed by lip service confession and baptism. I wonder if justpassinthrough will "add water baptism" to his list of "additional requirements" that one must accomplish AFTER one believes the gospel/places faith in Christ for salvation in order to become saved.
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People who try to turn confession into a work for salvation, usually end up turning salvation into a 4 step plan, such as 1. Believe 2. Repent 3. Confess 4. Be baptized (typical CoC formula) then after all 4 steps are complete the person is finally saved, which is a false plan of salvation. Such people reverse the scriptural order of repent and believe and turn believe into "mere mental" assent belief in Christ "conjoined with works" followed by turning repentance into self moral-reformation, then followed by lip service confession and baptism. I wonder if justpassinthrough will "add water baptism" to his list of "additional requirements" that one must accomplish AFTER one believes the gospel/places faith in Christ for salvation in order to become saved.
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There is no question that a person who hears the word, Gospel message, has faith when they hear is.
Only those who believe, [obey] the word are saved; born again, regenerated.
A person who hears the Gospel message must believe in their heart and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus [obey] to activate the faith they received when they heard, in order for the faith to be alive, or activated to produce the divine result of justification.
Justification is being declared righteous; right with God.
James teaches us the divine principle of faith, in which faith is activated [made alive] so as to produce the divine result that God intends.
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
The "works" James is describing is obedience: the corresponding act of obedience to God's word that produced faith when a person hears God's word. [faith comes by hearing]
Abraham obeyed God when told to sacrifice his son, and was justified by his "work" or act of obedience.
We see this sample principle when he was justified the first time.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand,saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9
"In you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed"... is a direct reference to Genesis 12, in which the Gospel was preaches, being foreshadow in the life of Abraham, as he "represented" in this foreshadowing, an ungodly Gentile whose family and fathers served other gods, [Joshua 24:2] obeyed the voice of God and turned away from them and his former life and followed the Lord.
He was given a promise, in which if he obeyed the condition, he would receive the promise... leaving for us an example of what it means to be justified by faith.
Abraham was justified for the first time in Genesis 12, meaning he was declared righteous, when he obeyed by turning from his old life to God... foreshadowing that God would justify ungodly Gentiles by faith in Jesus Christ the same way.
JLB
I never said Abraham was saved by works.
The dicussion is about faith, and how faith operates or functions to produce the intended divine result.
The principle of faith is that it requires obedience for it to become activated or alive, otherwise it is dead, as a body without a spirit is dead, and does not function.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
Again, the "works" James is describing is obedience: the effort obedience requires.
Read the bible.
JLB
These two ingrediants work together to produce the divine result.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
- if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God
If you believe, you obey.
If you believe Jesus is Lord, which demons do, but don't obey Him, but still serve Satan, then Satan is still your lord.
Your master is the one you obey.
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, Romans 6:16
- Even the demons believe—and tremble!
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:19-22
- Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
Faith is made complete [perfect] through the corresponding act or "work" of obedience.
JLB
Either "justified" in the context of James 2:14-24 means "accounted as righteous" (as in Romans 4:2-3) or "shown to be righteous" (the obvious answer). I said it means "shown to be righteous" and you called my interpretation a false interpretation, which only leaves "accounted as righteous" which would result in "saved by works" as the alternative interpretation. You can't have it both ways.
Man is saved through faith, not works. The intended divine result of faith is not salvation by works.
So you are saying that dead faith produces obedience in order to become activated or alive? That's like saying that a dead tree produces fruit in order to become activated or alive. You have it backwards. (Ephesians 2:5-10). You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse. It takes a living faith to produce works just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit.
Once again, in James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works.
Yes and as I have explained numerous times, faith is belief, trust, reliance and obedience which follows is works and we are SAVED THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
I have read the Bible numerous times.
Man is saved through faith, not works. The intended divine result of faith is not salvation by works.
So you are saying that dead faith produces obedience in order to become activated or alive? That's like saying that a dead tree produces fruit in order to become activated or alive. You have it backwards. (Ephesians 2:5-10). You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse. It takes a living faith to produce works just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit.
Once again, in James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works.
Yes and as I have explained numerous times, faith is belief, trust, reliance and obedience which follows is works and we are SAVED THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
I have read the Bible numerous times.
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. *What happened to confession? Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *What happened to confession? In Ephesians 2:8-9, we read that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. *What happened to confession? *HERMENEUTICS.
This is what happens when you fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and instead isolate your pet verses (ignore the context) build doctrine on your isolated pet verses, and also ignore what the rest of scripture says. That's called 'flawed hermeneutics."
This is what happens when you fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine and instead isolate your pet verses (ignore the context) build doctrine on your isolated pet verses, and also ignore what the rest of scripture says. That's called 'flawed hermeneutics."
Believe means trust, commit as well as obey.
Unbelief is Disobedience, as they are the same greek work.
Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV
JPT
- ***See post #583.
Yet believe and be saved precedes obedience/works which follow and obedience which follows is the demonstrative evidence that we believe.
The demons believe in their head that Jesus is the Lord, but they do not confess Him as their Lord. They serve Satan (and not Jesus), which explains why they do not obey Jesus. If one has not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, then Satan is still their lord no matter how much so called obedience that one attempts to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works.
Amen! I often see works-salvationists ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which follow faith are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works.
There is a contrast here between slaves. There are only two kinds of slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; slaves of sin unto death, or slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."
Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not obedience/works which follow) is accounted for righteousness.
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. *Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. The lack of works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
Again, in James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
*So once again, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*