Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Easy as pie, when you cut and paste you'll need to include the end tags with brackets, like this,
when you add the end tags with the quote in the middle the computer will do the rest and presto its there on your post. If you do not add the tags on the end it will not work.
Now if you edit the post you can omit as much or as little as you want and it still will work like this;
Later when you post you will not see the end tags but without them it won't work, try it out.
God bless!
when you add the end tags with the quote in the middle the computer will do the rest and presto its there on your post. If you do not add the tags on the end it will not work.
Now if you edit the post you can omit as much or as little as you want and it still will work like this;
Later when you post you will not see the end tags but without them it won't work, try it out.
God bless!
The Lord knows his own, and even though they broke God's commandments, their sins were not directed against God.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2Ti 2:19 KJV)
From (Num 16:5 KJV)
And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2Ti 2:19 KJV)
From (Num 16:5 KJV)
And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
I think the issue is that even those we disagree with on this thread concerning works is as follows.
The majority say "Works do not save" when they say that it's based on initial salvation and that only.
Then what happens we hear that works keep us saved, no works therefore no evidence of salvation. To a certain extent I do understand that BUT
The truth is it takes time for fruit to grow. Yet some say it must happen straight away.
If it doesn't then evidence of not saved.
If they had works but stop evidence of not being saved, lost salvation.
Yet people in the church just write them off without coming alongside.
People seem to forget that our Father refines us. That we have seasons.
The seed planted in a believers life needs to watered, needs tilling.
The soil needs to be treated, roots pulled up, faulty foundations replaced.
So the focus changes to works salvation.
Let's be honest who here has not fell foul of that?
Let's be honest, if we are saved by grace through faith void of works why would it change afterwards?
Truth is it doesn't because the truth is that a genuine beliver will start to bear fruit which will lead to works. All at a different rate.
We all need to be refined/pruned and taught and disciplined if need be.
If he doesn't discipline us then the Bible tells us that basically we are bastard's illegitimate.
If that's the case we were never his children in the first place.
If that's the case then we were never adopted because we never had true saving faith.
At the end of the day works salvation leads to "I must do I must do I must do, I must be I must be I must be"
And this totally misses the point of who we are.
Who are we? Children of the Father, his beloved.
Jesus said he came to set the prisoner free, heal the broken hearted, reveal the Father and his heart for us.
When he works in us, sets us free, heals us we then grow in him, we get to know him and as a result we become like him, not to be saved but because we realise we are his precious kids, the apple of his eye.
We do because we are, we do not do to be loved and saved.
Jesus walked with sinners, he sought them out and walked with them.
Even those who shrunk back, his disciples.
Let's not place a heavy burden on people.
Belivers struggle, need healing, need faulty foundations replaced.
Belivers go MIA.
Seek them out and do not write them off (not saying this about you TT)
It's a call to all of us believers.
The majority say "Works do not save" when they say that it's based on initial salvation and that only.
Then what happens we hear that works keep us saved, no works therefore no evidence of salvation. To a certain extent I do understand that BUT
The truth is it takes time for fruit to grow. Yet some say it must happen straight away.
If it doesn't then evidence of not saved.
If they had works but stop evidence of not being saved, lost salvation.
Yet people in the church just write them off without coming alongside.
People seem to forget that our Father refines us. That we have seasons.
The seed planted in a believers life needs to watered, needs tilling.
The soil needs to be treated, roots pulled up, faulty foundations replaced.
So the focus changes to works salvation.
Let's be honest who here has not fell foul of that?
Let's be honest, if we are saved by grace through faith void of works why would it change afterwards?
Truth is it doesn't because the truth is that a genuine beliver will start to bear fruit which will lead to works. All at a different rate.
We all need to be refined/pruned and taught and disciplined if need be.
If he doesn't discipline us then the Bible tells us that basically we are bastard's illegitimate.
If that's the case we were never his children in the first place.
If that's the case then we were never adopted because we never had true saving faith.
At the end of the day works salvation leads to "I must do I must do I must do, I must be I must be I must be"
And this totally misses the point of who we are.
Who are we? Children of the Father, his beloved.
Jesus said he came to set the prisoner free, heal the broken hearted, reveal the Father and his heart for us.
When he works in us, sets us free, heals us we then grow in him, we get to know him and as a result we become like him, not to be saved but because we realise we are his precious kids, the apple of his eye.
We do because we are, we do not do to be loved and saved.
Jesus walked with sinners, he sought them out and walked with them.
Even those who shrunk back, his disciples.
Let's not place a heavy burden on people.
Belivers struggle, need healing, need faulty foundations replaced.
Belivers go MIA.
Seek them out and do not write them off (not saying this about you TT)
It's a call to all of us believers.
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Nice dog Bill, I bet she gets a lot of preference around the house, like yummy left overs. Margaux's got a lot of Scottish Terrier in her I'll bet....
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I get it BillG, but its about boasting in your works, if you want to work your self to death be my guest but works are evidence that you are saved, works cannot add 1 extra second to your eternal salvation. I am not saying someone who works to keep there salvation is not saved, I am saying Jesus already paid the price so there is nothing to boast about. Jesus paid it all all to Him I owe.
Did you get my post on multiple quote postings?
God bless!
Did you get my post on multiple quote postings?
God bless!
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Good works will never save you. As you say, if you were to put your good works up against your sins, your sins are far more numerous than your good works. So good luck with that concept.
What good works are for is the good works that Jesus created for you to do in faith. Good works are for the benefit of the poor and the hungry and the prisoner, and the naked, and the needy in general. And if you have faith in Christ, you will follow him, which means you will do what he did, and that is what he did, day after day, after day. So get to work, if you have faith.
What good works are for is the good works that Jesus created for you to do in faith. Good works are for the benefit of the poor and the hungry and the prisoner, and the naked, and the needy in general. And if you have faith in Christ, you will follow him, which means you will do what he did, and that is what he did, day after day, after day. So get to work, if you have faith.
So you know what TT?
Given my experience I'm not sure it is just about boasting in works.
Yes we know come judgement day there will be some who boast in their works or claim their works to be saved.
For me and this is very sad but true and may be typical of many.
My thoughts were along the lines off, work to be saved and or loved.
My grasping thoughts were the verses in Corinthians about works being burned but me saved.
And if I was then what, what crown would I get, would I get a mansion or a garden shed.
It really isn't the way to walk. It's no wonder that so many by belivers are so ineffective and paralysed.
Love casts out fear, if we do not know love then we fear.
If we fear then cannot love, if we cannot love then people cannot see Jesus in us.
It's a vicious cycle and I'm convinced it's not a cycle Jesus wants us to ride on.
The analogy of a cycle.
When we first ride a cycle it has stabilisers on it.
At some point they are removed.
Free to cycle, free to be like Jesus.
Given my experience I'm not sure it is just about boasting in works.
Yes we know come judgement day there will be some who boast in their works or claim their works to be saved.
For me and this is very sad but true and may be typical of many.
My thoughts were along the lines off, work to be saved and or loved.
My grasping thoughts were the verses in Corinthians about works being burned but me saved.
And if I was then what, what crown would I get, would I get a mansion or a garden shed.
It really isn't the way to walk. It's no wonder that so many by belivers are so ineffective and paralysed.
Love casts out fear, if we do not know love then we fear.
If we fear then cannot love, if we cannot love then people cannot see Jesus in us.
It's a vicious cycle and I'm convinced it's not a cycle Jesus wants us to ride on.
The analogy of a cycle.
When we first ride a cycle it has stabilisers on it.
At some point they are removed.
Free to cycle, free to be like Jesus.
I will only answer your Peter question.
When Peter denied Christ, he had 2 choices.
1) continue to be alienated from Jesus, in which case he would have lost his salvation and found himself in hell.
2) humbly repent and come back to Christ, in which case he would be saved and become the great apostle that he was. he chose 2
When Peter denied Christ, he had 2 choices.
1) continue to be alienated from Jesus, in which case he would have lost his salvation and found himself in hell.
2) humbly repent and come back to Christ, in which case he would be saved and become the great apostle that he was. he chose 2
Fictional story as usual, what Christian would stop doing good works, the answer is "none"
Even a prayer for someone in need, in the quiet of their room, where nobody can see, this is still a good work for our savior. You assume some Christians will stop doing good works, your assumption is wrong, therefore you application is wrong. Christians will continue to worship and serve their Lord Jesus Christ for eternity.
Every swing of Noah's hammer on God's Ark, was a good work by Noah fulfilling God's will.
Even a prayer for someone in need, in the quiet of their room, where nobody can see, this is still a good work for our savior. You assume some Christians will stop doing good works, your assumption is wrong, therefore you application is wrong. Christians will continue to worship and serve their Lord Jesus Christ for eternity.
Every swing of Noah's hammer on God's Ark, was a good work by Noah fulfilling God's will.
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OK, thank you for that.
Just explain in your own words, not a bunch of scriptures: If he was speaking to those that were saved, why did he give them this promise and condition?
IOW if they are saved and secure eternally, why tell them that if they do not forgive, God will not forgive them?
Remember that if God does not forgive their sins, they will not be with Him in the KOG or have eternal life.
If they are 'saved' why they sermon on forgiveness?
Just explain in your own words, not a bunch of scriptures: If he was speaking to those that were saved, why did he give them this promise and condition?
IOW if they are saved and secure eternally, why tell them that if they do not forgive, God will not forgive them?
Remember that if God does not forgive their sins, they will not be with Him in the KOG or have eternal life.
If they are 'saved' why they sermon on forgiveness?