Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
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didn't say it was, just saying they were not atoning for sin, look at the context.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well you would be wrong
And he just proved it by saying noah was saved by building the ark.
And a dead faith is no faith, if noah did not have faith, he would have never started or finished the ark, dead faith does not endure, only a living faith does, and the power of god given to those who have living faih.
so of course it can not save, it never has, and it never will, but one does not go from a living faith to a dead faith, and lose salvation, thats what you do not understand
You both preach works, and cant see it.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Remember, this person claimes he does not teach works, he s exposing his true belief
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Actually, it is a typical response from some members
hey, if a paraplegic person who can only blink their eyes accepts Jesus can they be saved?
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Ralph-
Guest
He was JUSTIFIED before he built the ark. Just as Abraham was JUSTIFIED before he offered Isaac up.
People toss the words 'saved' and 'justified' around as if they are the exact same thing and can be interchanged. They can't. What works can not do is justify (make you righteous). That is the argument Paul makes in Romans. Faith is the only thing that can justify (make you righteous). From there works save you in the sense that they are you now no longer living in the disobedience that condemns. Doing right saves from the just condemnation of sin, but they can never earn your way into right standing with God.
You can't have faith and live in disobedience and think faith 'alone' is going to save you when Jesus comes back. It won't. James said so. Don't be deceived, church. Your sin still condemns you (so keep relying on Christ for cleansing), but not sinning is not what justifies you. The church is very ignorant of this truth.
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Ralph-
Guest
where did it say he burnt it? looks more like a grain offering like the tithe...
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
News flash,
Justified is a legal term, it means to be declaired innocent of the charges brought against a person, it means to be found innocent or another term aquited, it means one who is guilty is deemed innocent of all wrong doing, thus he is declared righteous (in right standing) which is what the word in the greek means, justified/righteous, the english words are used interchangably because the mean the same, just like the term unjustified would also mean unrighteous or guilty,
One who is justified is saved,
So yes, the terms, while not grammatically mean the same, but in essense, if your saved your justified, if your justifed your saved, the two go hand in handl
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Ralph-
Guest
Site the passage you are referring to that makes your point.
I showed you in the Bible that it was what they did, not how they did it that was the problem.
Really? That's not a very educated observation IMO. The norm for the godly ancients was to offer burnt offerings (Abraham, Noah, Job).
.
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Ralph-
Guest
The Biblical definition of the 'works' gospel is that works earn justification. Neither one of us is saying works justify. No one says that. You just think we are saying that because you don't make the proper distinction between being justified and salvation.
Works will never, ever make you righteous before God. Everyone knows that. But if you do not have works you have a dead faith, and James says dead faith can not save you.
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Ralph-
Guest
Abel brought "fat portions from some of the first born of his flock". Fat to be burned on the altar.
Did Jesus refer to the works of these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 as obedience to the Lord? NO, yet these many unbelievers were deceived into believing that they were being obedient to the Lord, yet they were trusting in their works for salvation. Sound familiar? No straw man argument or mischaracterization on my part. Now compare Matthew 7:21 with John 6:40.
Romans 8 gives us assurance of our salvation. Verses 38 & 39.
Romans 8 also tells us that because of the Holy Spirit we will mortify the deeds of the body. So the assertion that saved people can live like the devil and still be saved is not correct. Saved people do not live like the devil but walk as the Holy Spirit guides them. They are not perfect but they do not seek to sin either. Romans 8:9-13
The key would be verse 16. That is what separates believers from pretenders.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The principle's the same whether one does works or not - calling Jesus lord and not doing what he says. And the result's are the same whether those being disobedient are doing a lot of works, or none.