Oh goody another OSAS thread!

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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#521
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
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#521
wanderer6059 said:
thats kinda funny, but Noah didn't work for salvation. he was saved the moment God saw him, spoke to him, and he accepted the word that came to him. what he did after that was just his call.
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He labored for 100 years to be saved. The boat didn't just build itself.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#522
#522
wanderer6059 said:
and that was in their heart's, not their actions?

say it like that because idk if we are agreeing or not lol
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Let's see what the Bible says (note the underlined words):

"6Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?"-Genesis 4:6

"Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous. "-1 John 3:12

It doesn't say anything about what they were thinking or feeling. The Bible says it was about what they did. Cain did not bring the right sacrifice. Abel did. Abel obeyed the Lord, Cain did not.
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#523
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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#523
Ralph- said:
That is correct.

In Leviticus we see that grain does not atone for sin.
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except they were not offering sacrifices for sin...

and the context showed that God just didn't consider or look to Cains. its not what it was but how it was brought.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#525
#525
shrume said:
This is not a "works vs faith" situation.

Gen 4:
2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a shepard, Cain was a farmer. Cain did not have sheep to offer.

3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Notice it says Cain brought "of the fruit of the ground", not "of the fruit of his works".

The reason God rejected Cain's offering was he just gave some of what he had, while Abel gave some of the best of what he had ("firstlings" and "fat").

Cain's heart was not in it, while Abel's was.
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You just explained works my friend,

The bible calls work bloody rags, thats what cain offered, abel did not even think about it, he offered the unblemished lamb, the best, most like what God commanded, since animal sacrifice was always considered an offering to god even before the law. Abel saw god as wort
shrume said:
This is not a "works vs faith" situation.

Gen 4:
2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a shepard, Cain was a farmer. Cain did not have sheep to offer.

3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Notice it says Cain brought "of the fruit of the ground", not "of the fruit of his works".

The reason God rejected Cain's offering was he just gave some of what he had, while Abel gave some of the best of what he had ("firstlings" and "fat").

Cain's heart was not in it, while Abel's was.
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thats one way to look at it, i disagree,
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#526
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#526
wanderer6059 said:
except they were not offering sacrifices for sin...

and the context showed that God just didn't consider or look to Cains. its not what it was but how it was brought.
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The fact that Abel killed an animal indicates that it was for sin. Most likely a burnt offering for sin. Cain obviously didn't acknowledge his sin and wanted to show GOD how good he was.
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#527
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
#527
Ralph- said:
Let's see what the Bible says (note the underlined words):

"6Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?"-Genesis 4:6

"Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous. "-1 John 3:12

It doesn't say anything about what they were thinking or feeling. The Bible says it was about what they did. Cain did not bring the right sacrifice. Abel did. Abel obeyed the Lord, Cain did not.
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to do=/=action but a state of being.

yatab

Short Definition: well

long: to be; good, well, glad, or pleasing
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#528
#528
shrume said:
He was a farmer, not a shepard.


Do you have a scripture to support that?


While that might be possible, you're reading it into the text.
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What did god require for sacrifice in the OT?

It might be you reading into the text,
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#530
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
#530
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The fact that Abel killed an animal indicates that it was for sin. Most likely a burnt offering for sin. Cain obviously didn't acknowledge his sin and wanted to show GOD how good he was.
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he brought God what he had... he was a Shepard... him bringing a kid doesnt say anything about sin, and im sure if it was God would have said something in the scripture.

if anything this was more of a tithe.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#531
#531
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Tell that to Noah.
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Tell it to noah? So noah is in paradise because he built the ark?

Get real man, noah was saved the moment he trusted God, and he also had his physical life sparedbecause he built an ark.

You workers amaze me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#535
#535
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
GOD enabled, but Noah worked.
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Yep, like abraham worked, and moses, and david, and daniel, and all of gods people do,

But the works did not save them eternally, they were a result of the faith they had in god and a result of their salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#536
#536
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The ark saved him. IMO work-phobic salvationists live in an alternate reality.
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Your the one living in an alternative reality thinking noah is in heaven because he built an ark.

Get real man, you claim you do not preach works salvation, yet here you are preaching works earned noahs salvation
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#537
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
#537
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The ark saved him. IMO work-phobic salvationists live in an alternate reality.
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he was saved before he built the ark, justified by faith. IMO works mentality people can't read, or are severely lacking in simple comprehension of the written work of the bible.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#538
#538
--
Ralph- said:
That is correct.

In Leviticus we see that grain does not atone for sin.
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Wanderer6059, I'm open to correction. Show us where grain offerings were used to atone for sin.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#539
#539
eternally-gratefull said:
Your the one living in an alternative reality thinking noah is in heaven because he built an ark.

Get real man, you claim you do not preach works salvation, yet here you are preaching works earned noahs salvation
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I'm pretty sure he is not teaching works salvation. What you are incapable of understanding is dead faith can not save.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#540
#540
wanderer6059 said:
he was saved before he built the ark, justified by faith. IMO works mentality people can't read, or are severely lacking in simple comprehension of the written work of the bible.
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They can not see (or should i say refuse to see) abraham was saved before he did works, including circumcision, i guess we cant expect them to see noah was saved (physically and eternally) the moment he trusted God, and his faith was the power that got him to endure for the years building the ark, like abrahams faith was the power that allowed him to sacrifice his son.
 
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