Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[eternally-gratefull]

The only way the principle of faith works, is by obedience.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works

Not the works of the law of Moses
Not the work that earns a wage
Not good works


The work of obedience.


Abraham obeyed God when He told him to offer Issac on the altar.


Abraham demonstrated faith working by love, by His obedience and was justified by faith: By the obedience of faith.


Maybe you believe that by “disobedience” is how we are justified, which means to be declared as righteous.


That is how faith functions, by the corresponding action of obedience to what God says to us..


Faith comes to us by hearing God speak to us.

When we obey what Gos says, then faith becomes “activated” of alive, and able to produce the intended divine result.

Faith without this corresponding act of obedience is dead, and does not function, like a body without a spirit is dead, and does not function.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


Now maybe you could answer this simple question.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?

1. God?
2. Paul?
3. JPT?

JPT

no, Abraham was not justified by his work, as paul said, if he was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but what does scripture say? Abraham BELIEVED (had faith) And it was accounted to him as righteousness. This was decaded before his son was born, and long before he offered Issac up.

His faith saved him, His faith is what did the work (scripture says abraham had enough faith that God would keep his promise by raising his son up from the dead, thats why he was willing to offer his son)

You need to stop using james, which is preaching against licentiousness (hearers and not doers who have no faith at all, just mental agreement, which even demons have) . and look at the whole picture.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works

_________

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[justpassinthrough]

no, Abraham was not justified by his work,

Please post the scripture and context, that refers to your claim so we can examine the context of which works Paul is referring to.


We all no that no one is justified by the works of the law.

We all agree, that a person can not work to earn justification.

We all know that a person can not do enough good works to be declared righteous.


Justification is by faith.


But understanding what faith is, and What causes faith to be activated or alive, is crucial for rightly dividing God’s word..



Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works

Not the works of the law of Moses
Not the work that earns a wage
Not good works


The work of obedience.


Abraham obeyed God when He told him to offer Issac on the altar.




JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works

_________

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Amen bro. Why people want to make James contradict paul (or paul contradict james) is mind boggling, We need to interpret so they are in agreement, not so they are apposed to each other.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Amen bro. Why people want to make James contradict paul (or paul contradict james) is mind boggling, We need to interpret so they are in agreement, not so they are apposed to each other.

Yes, please take your own advise to reconcile what the Holy Spirit is teaching us, through both Paul as well as James.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please post the scripture and context, that refers to your claim so we can examine the context of which works Paul is referring to.


We all no that no one is justified by the works of the law.

We all agree, that a person can not work to earn justification.

We all know that a person can not do enough good works to be declared righteous.


Justification is by faith.


But understanding what faith is, and What causes faith to be activated or alive, is crucial for rightly dividing God’s word..



Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works

Not the works of the law of Moses
Not the work that earns a wage
Not good works


The work of obedience.


Abraham obeyed God when He told him to offer Issac on the altar.




JPT

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Three things to notice

1. Abraham was not found according to the flesh (physical works or works which where done in order to EARN something
2. If Abraham was found by works he has somethign to boast, Paul used this same term in Eph 2, where he said not of works, lest anyone should boast. (he is not talking about the works of the law. But works of righteousness in all these passages, including Titus 3: 5 where Paul said it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by Gods mercy, HE SAVED US (it is a done deal)
3. For those who try to earn salvation, it is not counted as grace, but it is counted as debt, The more you work, the more debt you encounter, because your sins are still not forgiven, and your still sinning (in fact deeper sins by not obeying the gospel)

David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

This is not a new idea, David even understood it, A man is truly blessed not because of all his great works (they are called bloody rags in the OT) but by a persons faith, The righteousness of God is imputed not only to Abraham in Gen 15, but all men, by FAITH, not because of any works.

Abraham Justified Before Circumcision
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

very important points,

1. It was not only for the jew (circumcised) but for the Gentile (uncircumcised) it was for all nations
2. This same imputation (righteousness) is given to all who have faith, be it jew or gentile (circumcised or not circumcised)
3. Given to all nations based on their steps of faith, The same faith abraham had BEFORE he was circumcised (and as of yet, no law was even given, so can NOT be part of the equation for or against, he is talking about works of any type which a person does to try to gain something, in this case, SALVATION is the wage workers are trying to earn.

The Promise Granted Through Faith
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

The promise is not through the law, The law can never save anyone, so works of the law is not in context, The law brings wrath, faith brings salvation. (not works of any kind, FAITH) proven by pauls next words....

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

It is of faith, Not works, Abraham was fully convinced God would keep his promise and ALL of abraham works was based on his faith in this yet unseen promise,

if must be of faith, so it can go to all seed, And not by works. which would cancel out grace, as paul said in another passage, if it is grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

and here we have the gospel This is our hope. that we believe in the miracle of the resurrection of Christ, who was delivered because of our sin, and raised because of our justification.

Hope in anything other than this (our works, or righteousness, our religion) is no hope at all. And is not of God and will never justify us from one sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, please take your own advise to reconcile what the Holy Spirit is teaching us, through both Paul as well as James.

I have, You have not.. You have them contradicting each other, one saying we are not justified by works, and one saying we are. they both can not be right as written. (and no the context of pauls letters are not law. That made up by your false teachers who have brought you to this false gospel of no hope

 

[justpassinthrough]

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Three things to notice

1. Abraham was not found according to the flesh (physical works or works which where done in order to EARN something
2. If Abraham was found by works he has somethign to boast, Paul used this same term in Eph 2, where he said not of works, lest anyone should boast. (he is not talking about the works of the law. But works of righteousness in all these passages, including Titus 3: 5 where Paul said it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by Gods mercy, HE SAVED US (it is a done deal)
3. For those who try to earn salvation, it is not counted as grace, but it is counted as debt, The more you work, the more debt you encounter, because your sins are still not forgiven, and your still sinning (in fact deeper sins by not obeying the gospel)

• Father according to the flesh, refers to Abraham being the natural father to the nation of Israel.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:1-4


Key Verse:

• Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Nobody can do enough work to earn the forgiveness of sins, to be declared righteous.

That only comes through the righteousness of faith.



My point isn't about salvation by works. No one can work to earn salvation.


My point that I am making is what faith is, and how faith is activated [made alive] to function as God intends.



I how you can see the difference.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



Example:


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22


Key: For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.”


God spoke to this woman's heart, to reveal to her, how to be healed, in which she now has faith from God speaking to her.

• a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.

When she obeyed and touched the hem of His garment, she was healed.



Here obedience activated the faith she had when God spoke to her, and produced the intended divine result.


If she had stayed where she was, and didn't obey to touch the hem of His garment, her faith would have remained dormant or dead, and unable to produce the intended result of healing.




JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

I have, You have not.. You have them contradicting each other, one saying we are not justified by works, and one saying we are. they both can not be right as written. (and no the context of pauls letters are not law. That made up by your false teachers who have brought you to this false gospel of no hope

Absoloutly false.


I have reconciled what James and Paul both taught about works.


James was teaching the "work" or "action" obedience of faith, while Paul was teaching that justification can not be earned by working.


Very Simple.


You see the word works and think all works are the same.



But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?

1. God?
2. Paul?
3. JPT?

JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

(and no the context of pauls letters are not law. That made up by your false teachers who have brought you to this false gospel of no hope

I have never heard anyone teach what I teach about faith, and how faith operates.


Not by works that earn
Not by the works of the law
Not by good works


But faith works by obedience.


Which is why Paul called it the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?

1. God?
2. Paul?
3. JPT?

JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

• Father according to the flesh, refers to Abraham being the natural father to the nation of Israel.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 4:1-4


Key Verse:

• Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Nobody can do enough work to earn the forgiveness of sins, to be declared righteous.

That only comes through the righteousness of faith.



My point isn't about salvation by works. No one can work to earn salvation.


My point that I am making is what faith is, and how faith is activated [made alive] to function as God intends.



I how you can see the difference.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



Example:


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22


Key: For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.”


God spoke to this woman's heart, to reveal to her, how to be healed, in which she now has faith from God speaking to her.

• a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.

When she obeyed and touched the hem of His garment, she was healed.



Here obedience activated the faith she had when God spoke to her, and produced the intended divine result.


If she had stayed where she was, and didn't obey to touch the hem of His garment, her faith would have remained dormant or dead, and unable to produce the intended result of healing.




JLB

Key word is FOUND according to the flesh, so I disagree with your interpretation, Paul is saying Abraham was not found righteous because of the flesh, Now interpret that as you will (works or birthright)

Abraham was saved completely at that moment, He sinned many grave sins after this, He also did some pretty great acts of faith after this (the biggest being the sacrifice of his son many many years later)

One does not lose salvation because they stop working, And they do not lose salvation if they do not grow to be spiritual adults, but remain babes in christ.

Your trying to add works, whether you think you are or not.

Now if someone in a hearer and not a doer, and has absolutely no work. period. Then as james said, their faith is dead, they never had faith, thus they never had salvation, it was never lost, you can not lose what you do not possess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Absoloutly false.

Dude you could not even refute my romans 4 passage comment, And you want to tell me I am wrong? lol.. You make me laugh.

I have reconciled what James and Paul both taught about works.

Um, Paul said no works, zero zip nada.

James said no works, Zero zip nada

Paul said we are not saved by works (to the works crowd) and those who have true living faith will have works (like abraham did)

James said those who have zero zip nada works are not saved, because if they were saved, Like abraham, and himself, they would have works.

There you go, James and paul is resolved, In just a few tiny sentances by taking context.

James was teaching the "work" or "action" obedience of faith, while Paul was teaching that justification can not be earned by working.

James was talking about people who had no faith, Paul spoke of abraham who had true faith. Huge difference.

Very Simple.


You see the word works and think all works are the same.

Works are all the same, Paul gives us the defenition

1. They can cause us to boast (we earned what we got by our own power)
2. They earn a wage (You work to earn a wage, a gift is freely given, paid for by the work of the giver)
3. It does not matter if it is works of the law, Works of the church (baptism, communion, giving to the church and to the poor, or any other (work of righteousness which we have done (titus 3:5) a work is a work is a work.

You see work you automatically assume law. Which is a fatal flaw in your thinking. WHile there are "works of the law" there is also "works of righteousness" and "Works of evil" or "Works of the devil" You have to use context to determin which work is being spoken of. and every time paul uses the word work does not mean works of the law. period

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?

1. God?
2. Paul?
3. JPT?

JPT

What is obedience of the faith, we must first establish that.

25 [g]Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.


What is the command of obedience which saves all people who obeys it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have never heard anyone teach what I teach about faith, and how faith operates.


Not by works that earn
Not by the works of the law
Not by good works


But faith works by obedience.


Which is why Paul called it the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?

1. God?
2. Paul?
3. JPT?

JPT

You teach faith? and not works?

So you teach that once a person places their faith in God because of true repentance, and because they had the same faith abraham had in gen 15, they are saved eternally? When did you start teaching this?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Key word is FOUND according to the flesh, so I disagree with your interpretation, Paul is saying Abraham was not found righteous because of the flesh, Now interpret that as you will (works or birthright)

Read the context. Paul is teaching the Jews, that righteousness is through faith, not by the works of the law, that it can be earned.

By demonstrating to the Jews, through the example of their father according to the flesh, whom the Jews all respected and honored, he could bring about the reconciliation of both Jew and Gentile, in their common understanding of the righteousness of faith apart from the law of Moses.



4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:1-3




This context of what Paul is teaching begins back in the previous chapter, 3 where Paul is contrasting the Jew and Gentile and reconciling that the righteousness of faith is equal for both, and does come through the works of the law, but the righteousness of faith is apart from the law, as he shows the father of the Jews, Abraham was declared righteous apart from the law, because God justified him even before he was circumcised.


What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?


again


Or is He the God of the Jews only?

Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? Romans 3:27-4:1



Paul says through faith we establish the law.

• Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

• Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Can we discuss this point, to bring out more clarification of the law of faith?



JLB

 

[garee]

The only way the principle of faith works, is by obedience.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Justified by the works of Christ that worked in Abraham and Rehab not coming from the imaginations of his own heart (no faith)

Yes, as Christ our faithful Creator worked in Abraham and Rehab as a labor of his love to both will and do His good pleasure they obtained a righteousness not of their own selves lest they would boast they did not receive it freely. James two makes Philippians 2 say the same thing. Not by a work separate from Christ living in them. Then they would have cause to boast

1 Corinthians 4:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Both Abraham and Rehab worked out their salvation as an imputed righteousness... not worked to gain it as if they had not received it freely with no cost on their behalf. Not by human endeavor.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Do all things without murmurings and disputings:Phil 2:12-13

Through the eyes of our new hearts we can see how the faith of Christ worked in and with Abraham and Rehab and by his labor of love as a work of His faith Christ made it perfect or complete. Christ is the author and perfecter of our new faith. If he has begun the good work he will finish it to the end of time

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.James2

 

[justpassinthrough]

Um, Paul said no works, zero zip nada.

James said no works, Zero zip nada

Why would you say such a thing? This couldn't be further from the truth.

• justified by works

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

 

[justpassinthrough]

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.James2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:21-26


Can you see the point James so plainly makes, that through the obedience of faith, we are justified.

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac

Paul says it this way -


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

• God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

You teach faith? and not works?

Exactly.

Example:


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22


Key: For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.”


God spoke to this woman's heart, to reveal to her, how to be healed, in which she now has faith from God speaking to her.

• a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.

When she obeyed and touched the hem of His garment, she was healed.



Here obedience activated the faith she had when God spoke to her, and produced the intended divine result.


If she had stayed where she was, and didn't obey to touch the hem of His garment, her faith would have remained dormant or dead, and unable to produce the intended result of healing.




JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read the context. Paul is teaching the Jews, that righteousness is through faith, not by the works of the law, that it can be earned.

By demonstrating to the Jews, through the example of their father according to the flesh, whom the Jews all respected and honored, he could bring about the reconciliation of both Jew and Gentile, in their common understanding of the righteousness of faith apart from the law of Moses.



4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:1-3




This context of what Paul is teaching begins back in the previous chapter, 3 where Paul is contrasting the Jew and Gentile and reconciling that the righteousness of faith is equal for both, and does come through the works of the law, but the righteousness of faith is apart from the law, as he shows the father of the Jews, Abraham was declared righteous apart from the law, because God justified him even before he was circumcised.


What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?


again


Or is He the God of the Jews only?

Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? Romans 3:27-4:1



Paul says through faith we establish the law.

• Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

• Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Can we discuss this point, to bring out more clarification of the law of faith?



JLB

I read the context, And your wrong.

Paul did not say, Abraham was not found by works of the law. He was found by works of (whatever works your trying to push)

He said plainly. Paul was not found by works of the flesh. The flesh is a term used to denote for ones own benefit, For earn a wage or reward. Self righteousness.

Your trying to push self righteousness, You will fail.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would you say such a thing? This couldn't be further from the truth.

• justified by works

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Why would you ignore James opening sentence, which is the context of those words.

What does it profit young man if a man CLAIM he has faith but has NO WORKS, can faith save him.

Last I looked up. the term no works, means zero works, Zero zip nada)

Yes, In a way, James is saying Abraham was justified by works, But he is not contradicting paul. Because his audience (those who has preaching against, CLAIMED they had faith, but had ZERO WORKS.

How can you say you have faith if you have ZERO WORKS?

You can't, your faith is dead (the context)

Can a dead faith save? NO! Even demons believe and tremble.

Abraham had faith and was saved, He did not have no works AFTER he was saved.

James said he had faith, and he will prove his faith by his works.

His audience was licentious people who think because they CLAIMED to have faith they are saved and can live any way they desire, James told them their faith is dead, Their trust was in self (pride) not God. if they had faith in God they would work.

He is telling others, Test your faith, if you claim to have faith, But are hearers only and not doers (ZERO ZIP NADA WORKS) your faiht is dead, you need to re-evaluate your claim, because you were wrong, you have no faith.

again, if you keep trying to use this to enforce you works theology, YOU WILL FAIL