Are there any God ordained feasts I can partake in?

[Ralph-]

To me it is simply UNBELIEVABLE that anyone can try to revive the OT feasts without making a mockery of Christ.

Yes, to 'you' it is simply unbelievable.

They are a commemoration of what God has done for his people, both before and after the cross. It's quite possible to observe them without the narrow uneducated view that they are only for trying to justify oneself before God. They are valuable illustrations of spiritual realities.

For example you can observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread by sweeping your house clean of all traces of leaven, all the while knowing it's an illustration of how the household of God (the people of God--individually and corporately) has been swept clean of the leaven of sin now that the Passover Lamb has been sacrificed (that Feast follows the Passover).

Can't grasp that mindset? Why not? You adopt that mindset every time you take communion knowing you're doing it as a commemoration of what Christ has done for you, not as some sort of work that wins anything for you from God. Apparently, Jesus himself finds value in acting out things that illustrate the reality of what God has done for us since he is the one who told us to continue the Passover (communion) tradition in an illustrative manner of what he has done on the cross for us.

When someone observes all the Mosaic Feast and Sabbath traditions for the same reason the rest of us observe Communion commanded by Jesus they are no more mocking Christ in their observances they we are in ours. Think about it.

 

[BenFTW]

Yes, to 'you' it is simply unbelievable.

They are a commemoration of what God has done for his people, both before and after the cross. It's quite possible to observe them without the narrow uneducated view that they are only for trying to justify oneself before God. They are valuable illustrations of spiritual realities.

For example you can observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread by sweeping your house clean of all traces of leaven, all the while knowing it's an illustration of how the household of God (the people of God--individually and corporately) has been swept clean of the leaven of sin now that the Passover Lamb has been sacrificed (that Feast follows the Passover).

Can't grasp that mindset? Why not? You adopt that mindset every time you take communion knowing you're doing it as a commemoration of what Christ has done for you, not as some sort of work that wins anything for you from God. Apparently, Jesus himself finds value in acting out things that illustrate the reality of what God has done for us since he is the one who told us to continue the Passover (communion) tradition in an illustrative manner of what he has done on the cross for us.

When someone observes all the Mosaic Feast and Sabbath traditions for the same reason the rest of us observe Communion commanded by Jesus they are no more mocking Christ in their observances they we are in ours. Think about it.

I find that many, most, agree people are under the liberty to celebrate the feasts if they so desire, but are not under obligation to. Yet, also, do I find that those who teach these feasts (often associated with the Hebrew Roots Movement) seem to suggest that in order to "live a life pleasing to God" we are to be obedient to the Torah and in celebrating these feasts (as opposed to so called pagan holidays of Christmas, Easter, etc).

The life pleasing to God statement, is a judgement because it is suggesting that if you do not obey Torah (be under Law) and celebrate feasts, that you are somehow not being pleasing to God. I find this erroneous, yet also am conflicted because this is a hot topic of discussion in my house. I feel burdened in my spirit, as if a war is being waged. When we look at Acts 15, when circumcision and the Law of Moses were brought up, the decision as to what is to be obeyed came only to four commands (so as to not offend the Jews). Only one was of moral excellence, and it was about fornication. Of all the Laws of Moses (including feasts), only the sin of fornication was brought up. Surely something is amiss if we are to be obedient to the Torah in its entirety and only this one transgression is brought up.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When someone observes all the Mosaic Feast and Sabbath traditions for the same reason the rest of us observe Communion commanded by Jesus they are no more mocking Christ in their observances they we are in ours. Think about it.

Yes, I've thought about it and I can tell you one thing. If there is no temple in Jerusalem, and there is no Levitical priesthood either, then observing any feast is JUST A SHAM. You can either do it God's way, or stop playing games.

The Jews -- WHO REJECT CHRIST -- continue on with their feasts and festivals. Which means that a Christian who joins them in this sham also rejects Christ. Think about that.

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary... Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Heb 9:1,9,10)

Do Christians understand "until the time of reformation"? What is the Holy Spirit revealing here? That EVERYTHING in the Old Covenant pertaining to the sanctuary was temporary, and would be valid only until the crucifixion of Christ.

"Reformation" (Gk diorthosis) means "a making straight" or "a rectification". God never intended the Old Covenant to continue after Christ shed His precious blood for our redemption. That blood and that final sacrifice made a rectification of what was temporary. Thus the whole system of the Levitical priesthood was a figure or type "for the time THEN PRESENT". That time came to an end the day Christ was crucified, and that temple veil was torn in two by God.

But the entire system was abolished when the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Which means there is only ONE FEAST for Christians -- the Memorial Feast of the Lord's Supper. Anything else makes a mockery of Christ's finished work of redemption.

 

[Desertsrose]

This has become a... major topic of discussion amongst close family and friends lately. Forsaking "pagan holidays" and being more in line with God's holy days. I've done some research and know that certain feasts are types, and there are anti-types and once fulfilled they are no longer celebrated (they are omitted). What feasts, if any, still exist and are we free to partake in (though not obligated to)?

My father has been watching Michael Rood from Rood Awakening and because of what he is learning (origins), he is desiring to celebrate God ordained feasts, holidays, and what not. Of course we have our canned response that you cannot dismiss certain holidays based on origin because it is the genetic fallacy, dismissing something based upon origin instead of current use or applicability. However, it is still intriguing if there are certain God ordained feasts or celebrations that we can enjoy.

I don't know... this has been a hot topic in my house (and close friends, family, etc) lately. Can some of you more informed believers enlighten me on this discussion?

Hi Ben,

There's nothing wrong with celebrating the feasts as a memorial as to looking back at the meaning and celebrating their fulfillment in Jesus. I've celebrated the Passover and Hannukah, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. Oh and Purim.

I didn't celebrate as a "have to", but as "I want to". I wanted to celebrate them because they do have meaning. By celebrating them I learned some things. I belonged to a Messanic church quite a few years ago. They didn't teach that we had to celebrate or you're not a Christian if you don't.

The three yet to be fulfilled are Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles. If we celebrate these, we are looking forward to their fulfillment and not as a memorial looking back at what Jesus has already done. Actually communion was instituted during Jesus celebrating Passover.

I don't see a problem with your dad wanting to celebrate unless he feels like he's not saved if he doesn't. If that's the case it might be a good time to study Galatians with him.

 

[garee]

Yes, I've thought about it and I can tell you one thing. If there is no temple in Jerusalem, and there is no Levitical priesthood either, then observing any feast is JUST A SHAM. You can either do it God's way, or stop playing games.

The Jews -- WHO REJECT CHRIST -- continue on with their feasts and festivals. Which means that a Christian who joins them in this sham also rejects Christ. Think about that.

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary... Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Heb 9:1,9,10)

Do Christians understand "until the time of reformation"? What is the Holy Spirit revealing here? That EVERYTHING in the Old Covenant pertaining to the sanctuary was temporary, and would be valid only until the crucifixion of Christ.

"Reformation" (Gk diorthosis) means "a making straight" or "a rectification". God never intended the Old Covenant to continue after Christ shed His precious blood for our redemption. That blood and that final sacrifice made a rectification of what was temporary. Thus the whole system of the Levitical priesthood was a figure or type "for the time THEN PRESENT". That time came to an end the day Christ was crucified, and that temple veil was torn in two by God.

But the entire system was abolished when the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Which means there is only ONE FEAST for Christians -- the Memorial Feast of the Lord's Supper. Anything else makes a mockery of Christ's finished work of redemption.

From my experiences, many Christians refuse discussing the "time of reformation" as if it did not occur. I think it was abolished when the veil was rent not 70 years later . The stones lost their ability to be used as shadow other than shade from the sun.

 

[mcubed]

If you as jew celebrate the from God given feasts, you should do it, as he commandet to do. For us who are coming out of gentiles this comandment is not given. Neither in OT nor in NT.

Maybe you are not familiar with Messiah saying, as He was eating Passover, "As long as you do this do it in remembrance of Me."

Communion had not been invented yet by Christians. Messiah had the expectation we would keep doing Passover, and the Non-Jew Luke was there.

1. You have a very serious misunderstanding of "they will never pass away".

2. There are no "us Jews" in the Church. Another very serious misunderstanding.

3. ALL the feasts and festivals of the Old Covenant are obsolete.

Let me give you just one example: "... ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest..." (lev 23:10).

Where is the temple of Jerusalem? Rubble

Where is the Levitical priesthood? Abolished

Which priest will you bring the sheaf to? Impossible

So where are you going to bring your firstfruits without playing so kind of foolish game?

To me it is simply UNBELIEVABLE that anyone can try to revive the OT feasts without making a mockery of Christ.

Let me understand, are you really saying I STOPPED being a Jew, by race, because I Messiah/Y-shua is my Lord and Savior?

I feel sad for you if you do not Messiah is your King and you never bring Him first fruits, example of tithe or even praise. The priesthood is fulfilled not ambolised! Fulfilled by my High Priest Messiah/ Y-shua but what do I know I am a Jew!!!!

The Temple is sitting at the Right had of G-d. Did you not know Messiah is the Temple that was raised 3 three days....

Silly, Silly PERSON!!!!

 

[wolfwint]

Maybe you are not familiar with Messiah saying, as He was eating Passover, "As long as you do this do it in remembrance of Me."

Communion had not been invented yet by Christians. Messiah had the expectation we would keep doing Passover, and the Non-Jew Luke was there.


Let me understand, are you really saying I STOPPED being a Jew, by race, because I Messiah/Y-shua is my Lord and Savior?

I feel sad for you if you do not Messiah is your King and you never bring Him first fruits, example of tithe or even praise. The priesthood is fulfilled not ambolised! Fulfilled by my High Priest Messiah/ Y-shua but what do I know I am a Jew!!!!

The Temple is sitting at the Right had of G-d. Did you not know Messiah is the Temple that was raised 3 three days....

Silly, Silly PERSON!!!!

Then please where is written after pentcost, that believer out of gentiles have to celebrate the Mose given feasts? 1. Cor. 11 would be a good opportunity for Paul to explain the last supper in an jewish context for the corinthians. But he did not. He not even mentioned the jewish feast passover. So if he not taught it, and God is the writer of what Paul wrote, why we should follow human to to what God has not taught us?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Communion had not been invented yet by Christians. Messiah had the expectation we would keep doing Passover, and the Non-Jew Luke was there.

It's pretty obvious that the lord's supper has become the new covenant passover.

 

[mcubed]

Then please where is written after pentcost, that believer out of gentiles have to celebrate the Mose given feasts? 1. Cor. 11 would be a good opportunity for Paul to explain the last supper in an jewish context for the corinthians. But he did not. He not even mentioned the jewish feast passover. So if he not taught it, and God is the writer of what Paul wrote, why we should follow human to to what God has not taught us?

I could care less what you do. The question was should people remember the feast I say yes it behoves a Christian to. It brings you to a closeness with G-d. It just does. If you do or don't that is between you and Him.... I do not know anyone going to Hell for not doing it.

I originally said we Jews do it but I think they everyone should and I gave reasons why. I would die before I ever said a Hail Mary but many Christians still do and that is blasphemous nor is Christmas or Easter even Biblical but, most, Christians do not care about that.

The point is if someone wants to celebrate them, even Non-Jews, they should and NO ONE SHOULD MAKE THEM WRONG FOR DOING SO!!! Are the feast not in Scripture and even Messiah celebrated them!?! I'll wish a Merry Christmas and Happy Easter and let G-d deal with people the pray to Mary!!!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Communion had not been invented yet by Christians. Messiah had the expectation we would keep doing Passover, and the Non-Jew Luke was there.

How in the world are you going to even understand the New Covenant when you say "we would keep doing the Passover"? So are you faithfully killing a Passover lamb and eating it every year? And do you even understand that if you were to do that, you would be mocking Christ?

It is Jesus who replaced the Passover with the Lord's Supper. No unbelieving Jew would say that the blood of Christ is represented in the cup.

Let me understand, are you really saying I STOPPED being a Jew, by race, because I Messiah/Y-shua is my Lord and Savior?

If you still think of yourself as a Jew separated from Gentile Christians, then you had better study what is said in Scripture. There in no Jew or Gentile in the Body of Christ, and there is only one race -- the human race.

The Temple is sitting at the Right had of G-d. Did you not know Messiah is the Temple that was raised 3 three days....

All the more reason why you cannot observe the Passover, or any other Jewish feast. It is only unbelieving Jews who observe the feasts while rejecting Christ.

 

[mcubed]

How in the world are you going to even understand the New Covenant when you say "we would keep doing the Passover"? So are you faithfully killing a Passover lamb and eating it every year? And do you even understand that if you were to do that, you would be mocking Christ?

It is Jesus who replaced the Passover with the Lord's Supper. No unbelieving Jew would say that the blood of Christ is represented in the cup.

If you still think of yourself as a Jew separated from Gentile Christians, then you had better study what is said in Scripture. There in no Jew or Gentile in the Body of Christ, and there is only one race -- the human race.

All the more reason why you cannot observe the Passover, or any other Jewish feast. It is only unbelieving Jews who observe the feasts while rejecting Christ.

We are one in Messiah and we both get to heaven equally by accepting Messiah. No matter what race you are reject Him you go to Hell!!!! Well at least I hear your hatred loud and clear and you are not a Non-Jew who pretends to be a Jew... What is your race can I make an issue out of it!?! If you are white but eat chitlins and collard greens are you denying being white. If you are black better not listen to rock-n-roll you might be mistaken for trying to be white.... there are too many races to "play" with and I do not feel like looking at your profile, if it says.


WHY ARE YOU AGAINST ME BEING A JEW? DO YOU NOT THINK WE CAN BE SAVED!? THIS IS VERY STRANGE INDEED!!!!!

Funny you say no non believing Jew, Y-shua's audience was a believing 11/12 (We have Judis and we know what He did), at that moment, .... Oh wait EVERY GROUP WAS REPRESENTED THERE ... JEWS, NON-JEWS, and NON-BELIEVERS... (never thought of it before).... THANK YOU YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT EVEN BETTER!!!!!!!

 

[garee]

Maybe you are not familiar with Messiah saying, as He was eating Passover, "As long as you do this do it in remembrance of Me."

Not as long as you do this . It was more of a commandment as a shadow of the wedding supper that will be performed in the new heavens and earth when the bride of Christ as residents of the heavenly City of Christ (New heavenly Jerusalem) who God purposely named Christians. Replied "Do this in remembrance" of me until his bride drinks it anew in the new heaven and earth. It has nothing to do with male or female Jew nor Gentile .It's not a Jewish religion, God typified as Abraham ,is the father of many nations or denominations(sects)

The time of reformation has come. The time being restored back to the days of Judges when there was no outward representation of God our King in heaven.

Communion had not been invented yet by Christians. Messiah had the expectation we would keep doing Passover, and the Non-Jew Luke was there.

Communion as a shadow of the true unseen glory will be unveiled when we receive our new incorruptible bodies, which again will not be male or female Jew nor Gentile. Not all Israel became born again Christians, only the ones that had the Spirit of Christ living in them
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh,(Jew or Gentile) but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Let me understand, are you really saying I STOPPED being a Jew, by race, because I Messiah/Y-shua is my Lord and Savior?

The Son of Man, Y-shua is my Lord and Savior He said of his own Jewish flesh it profits for nothing

There is a big difference (a new creation) between an outward Jew who is treated no different than a Gentile and a inward born again Jew or a Christian. Christian, the new name God named his bride the church

I

feel sad for you if you do not Messiah is your King and you never bring Him first fruits, example of tithe or even praise. The priesthood is fulfilled not ambolised! Fulfilled by my High Priest Messiah/ Y-shua but what do I know I am a Jew!!!!

Yes, the Christians because of the time of reformation take on the role as a kingdom of priest they are made up of all the kingdoms as nations of this world. God is no respecter of persons

 

[mcubed]

Not as long as you do this . It was more of a commandment as a shadow of the wedding supper that will be performed in the new heavens and earth when the bride of Christ as residents of the heavenly City of Christ (New heavenly Jerusalem) who God purposely named Christians. Replied "Do this in remembrance" of me until his bride drinks it anew in the new heaven and earth. It has nothing to do with male or female Jew nor Gentile .It's not a Jewish religion, God typified as Abraham ,is the father of many nations or denominations(sects)

The time of reformation has come. The time being restored back to the days of Judges when there was no outward representation of God our King in heaven.


Communion as a shadow of the true unseen glory will be unveiled when we receive our new incorruptible bodies, which again will not be male or female Jew nor Gentile. Not all Israel became born again Christians, only the ones that had the Spirit of Christ living in them
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh,(Jew or Gentile) but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



The Son of Man, Y-shua is my Lord and Savior He said of his own Jewish flesh it profits for nothing

There is a big difference (a new creation) between an outward Jew who is treated no different than a Gentile and a inward born again Jew or a Christian. Christian, the new name God named his bride the church

I

Yes, the Christians because of the time of reformation take on the role as a kingdom of priest they are made up of all the kingdoms as nations of this world. God is no respecter of persons

Ask Your Lord if He is a Jew....

What is wrong with you prejudices people.... Give me your address I will send you a white robe and hood for Christmas!!! Or do you want to be in the next slaughter for being a Jew too...

THIS IS RIDICULOUS I HAVE TO DEFEND BEING A RACIAL JEW TO YOU PEOPLE.... Read my other text!

 

[Blik]

The life pleasing to God statement, is a judgement because it is suggesting that if you do not obey Torah (be under Law) and celebrate feasts, that you are somehow not being pleasing to God. I find this erroneous, yet also am conflicted because this is a hot topic of discussion in my house. I feel burdened in my spirit, as if a war is being waged. When we look at Acts 15, when circumcision and the Law of Moses were brought up, the decision as to what is to be obeyed came only to four commands (so as to not offend the Jews). Only one was of moral excellence, and it was about fornication. Of all the Laws of Moses (including feasts), only the sin of fornication was brought up. Surely something is amiss if we are to be obedient to the Torah in its entirety and only this one transgression is brought up.

If I told a person who believed in stealing that stealing was not pleasing to God it would be a statement about what was pleasing to God, not about judging the person who believed in stealing. It is the same way about telling people God wants us to praise Him with feasts.

Jesus lived a life that had he feasts as an important part of it. Jesus did not talk about it, Jesus lived it for us. What Jesus said was that he did not change anything of the Father. When we do not do the physical part of circumcision we still obey what circumcision was to teach. When we eat pork we still obey the spiritual and earthly things that was to teach. The feasts were to praise God for His plan of redemption for us, they weren't to lead us to anything else, they WERE the praise.

To the Jews of Christ's day to say cancel all the feasts would be like telling the Christians of seventy years ago to cancel Christmas. Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were analyzed, scholars did not understand.

 

[BenFTW]

If I told a person who believed in stealing that stealing was not pleasing to God it would be a statement about what was pleasing to God, not about judging the person who believed in stealing. It is the same way about telling people God wants us to praise Him with feasts.

Jesus lived a life that had he feasts as an important part of it. Jesus did not talk about it, Jesus lived it for us. What Jesus said was that he did not change anything of the Father. When we do not do the physical part of circumcision we still obey what circumcision was to teach. When we eat pork we still obey the spiritual and earthly things that was to teach. The feasts were to praise God for His plan of redemption for us, they weren't to lead us to anything else, they WERE the praise.

To the Jews of Christ's day to say cancel all the feasts would be like telling the Christians of seventy years ago to cancel Christmas. Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were analyzed, scholars did not understand.

Actually, the feasts were given to Israel to celebrate different aspects of their history, and relationship with God, who gave them deliverance and providence. We see then that when Israel celebrated these feasts it was not with the Messiah in mind or in focus, but upon what God had done for them. So, while they indeed are a shadow of what would be fulfilled in Christ, they were not celebrated for that function (that they served as; as a shadow).

Its funny how Christmas and Easter are considered pagan holidays in origin and how we are not to celebrate them based upon origin, but hypocritically those in the HRM want to celebrate God's feasts contrary to their origin. Israel celebrated what God did for them previously, not what God was going to do through Christ (at least intellectually). So for us to super-impose our understanding of these feasts as shadows (which they were) and celebrate them with this understanding, we would be celebrating them contrary to the reason they were celebrated in the first place (as a remembrance of what God did for them previously, such as Passover).

How do we celebrate a feast that looks to the past (a specific event), and reconstruct it to celebrate a future event (that is now past for us), because it was a shadow of what was to come? In essence, we are rewriting the feasts in a way, though we understand it as a shadow, we also have to understand how and why Israel celebrated a particular feast (and in remembrance of what). How do we change their reasoning for a feast, and Christianize it (just like the pagan holidays, according to Hebrew Roots Movement), and then act as if Israel didn't celebrate, for example, Passover in remembrance of what happened in Egypt and covering the doorposts with blood, but instead celebrate the feast in knowing Christ to be the realization, the Passover Lamb?

Is this not ignoring origin and attempting to Christianize a feast, though it be a shadow? I don't dismiss the importance that such feasts foretold of the work of the Messiah, but they were celebrating and taking part of these feasts for very specific reasons. How do we remove these reasons, and replace them, without the hypocrisy of not considering origin?

While I am not equating God's feasts with pagan celebrations, I am trying to make a point that to consider origin means that we must understand why such a celebration took place. To not "Christianize" it, as is often the accusation. Does this not occur with the feasts? Celebrated originally for a specific reason but then changed, celebrated in remembrance of what Christ has done, thereby taking a shadow and still celebrating it, even though the fulfillment has come to pass? Doesn't Communion then take precedence, and instead of changing the original reason for the celebration of a feast, shouldn't we rather partake in Communion?

We acknowledge the shadow, and it pointing to Christ, but do we reinterpret the shadow so as to be able to observe it today, when that which it foretold of has "came in the flesh"? Why do we put ourselves back under the Law? To me this doesn't make sense.

 

[BenFTW]

I'm learning more and more on this topic, including the HRM. What I just previously wrote are just some musings to consider.

 

[Blik]

Actually, the feasts were given to Israel to celebrate different aspects of their history, and relationship with God, who gave them deliverance and providence. We see then that when Israel celebrated these feasts it was not with the Messiah in mind or in focus, but upon what God had done for them. So, while they indeed are a shadow of what would be fulfilled in Christ, they were not celebrated for that function (that they served as; as a shadow). .

Do you think that when scripture speaks of Israel God meant for us not to listen? In Zech. 8:23 we are told that the time will come when we realize that God favors the Jews and we will go to them to learn how to live so we have God's favor. According to statistics about education, wealth, and honors God favors them and it is not because of their race but because of how devoted they are to God's ways.

Scripture tells us that God established the Hebrew race for our sakes, we are to learn of God through them. There is even scripture telling us that God blinded them to Christ for our sake.

God was deep into symbolism and entire Passover is about how we were rescued from sin by Christ. That is enough new covenant that even the people who believe God took away the relationship He established with the old covenant when God gave us Christ surely accepts that. When we celebrate Passover we are celebrating Christ. That is true of Jews, also except they say He is still to come.

But I am certain that when God gave us the OT it was to all the people He created. Skin color, belonging in any nation we have made, or who our parents are does not matter to God, He is the God of creation and the scripture God gave to us is for all--every part of it.

 

[BenFTW]

Do you think that when scripture speaks of Israel God meant for us not to listen? In Zech. 8:23 we are told that the time will come when we realize that God favors the Jews and we will go to them to learn how to live so we have God's favor. According to statistics about education, wealth, and honors God favors them and it is not because of their race but because of how devoted they are to God's ways.

Scripture tells us that God established the Hebrew race for our sakes, we are to learn of God through them. There is even scripture telling us that God blinded them to Christ for our sake.

God was deep into symbolism and entire Passover is about how we were rescued from sin by Christ. That is enough new covenant that even the people who believe God took away the relationship He established with the old covenant when God gave us Christ surely accepts that. When we celebrate Passover we are celebrating Christ. That is true of Jews, also except they say He is still to come.

But I am certain that when God gave us the OT it was to all the people He created. Skin color, belonging in any nation we have made, or who our parents are does not matter to God, He is the God of creation and the scripture God gave to us is for all--every part of it.

I do not disagree that there is much to learn in the OT, nor would I tell anyone to just go to the NT ignoring all the valuable lessons in the Old (especially on faith). Yes, the Jewish people are blessed, and being obedient to certain aspects of God's Law leads to blessings in their lives (such as honoring your parents and having long life on the earth, a promise repeated in the NT). Giving, tithing, helping the poor, and widow, and so on, leads to increase (as the proverbs give testament, that they which help the poor lendeth to the Lord and He will repay them).

I agree there still resides in the OT many principles that ought to be lived by. They are a blessing. There is much to learn.

 

[BenFTW]

The difference, however, is in the implication that Gentile Christians must "observe the Torah" (with its feasts) and from this position comes a false gospel. Just the other day I watched a video as a HRM leader said, "Repentance is obedience to the Torah" meaning that a person repents of their sins and turns back to obedience to God's commands given in the Law of Moses. What!? Yes, this is what is being taught and ought to disturb the spirit of anyone who knows God and is in Christ.

I like what I read on one site, that Jesus didn't die just to remove the inconvenience of animal sacrifice in the Law. There is a new covenant, not a renewed covenant.

Hebrews 9:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[Blik]

People in the HRM are simply people studying scripture and anyone who believes the OT is valid for us has that label put on them. That label includes people who misuse the Jewish rituals, or people who just join a church.

This "movement" came after the dead sea scrolls were analyzed. That opened up ways of reading old languages and understanding the culture scripture was written in. When that culture was understood it meant that they knew what the words meant to people of that span of time scripture was written in.

God gave His ways to the people He chose to put them down, but those people used their meanings to write what God said. In our language today we have mouse, net, gay, over the rainbow and such. In their day there were words that meant different than we understand them. As an example "Law of Moses". We think that is the ten commandments, but if we know the way people is Christ's time used those words, they don't mean the law as Moses gave it on the stone tablets.

So after those findings from the deep sea caves were analyzed, after 1947, scholars and ancient history professors began letting us know of what they found.

Now, the challenge is for the churches to sort out what is religion and what is understanding God.

I spent several months gathering information on each of the councils after the year 400 and reading what the councils decided about the church. They said the pope could tell them what God wanted of them and often they did not follow scripture but a worldly pope. Today's churches follow much of what was decided by these councils.

The first churches after Christ were called The Way. Constantine established churches more like our church today. The Way died out after only 500 years. It was a church closer to Christ. They did not question God about whether He wanted those who worship Him to praise Him with the feasts. Christ celebrated them, so did they.