Not By Works

[benhur]

Hi VCO, perfect example of how benhur constantly twist our words and the Scriptures. In your example he completely misses your point by a mile. There is something decent about being honorable and truthful. But when you twist someone's words you are being less than truthful, you are a deceiver.

Thanks for those conforting words.

 

[benhur]

While your right, it does not compair. I must ask why you would not obey one of Gods commands?

Would God command you to be baptized if it were just an earthly show?

 

[TruthTalk]

Hello! We accept that premise. Works will not save you. But no works will damn you.

That is a misguided statement, what Christian on earth, would not have one work, even if that was praying in the quiet of his room. You are conflating works and salvation. It is either saved by grace alone, or grace plus works. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too, you cannot do that.
Grace or works not both.

 

[Endoscopy]

I also want to point out that I have consistently stated that I never judge a man's salvation, only the doctrines pushed....we all believe what we believe.....and we all stand emphatically upon what we believe......I hate no one on this site, but for sure I will oppose any and all doctrines I disagree with....as do all....!

Keep in mind that since the very early church there were differences of different issues and the early elders held we need to agree to disagree on peripheral issues but all must stand firm on the gospel message. That was the purpose of the doctrine messages of the Roman and Apostle's Creed. Bibles were extremely expensive and rare. The creeds explain the core beliefs and were easy to memorize. Refute what they say keeping in mind the fact that hardly anyone had access to the Bible. Rant away now about solo scriptorum. Where were they going to get one? It took long time for the work of a scribe to copy a book much less the entire Bible so they were very expensive and rare!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

That is a misguided statement, what Christian on earth, would not have one work, even if that was praying in the quiet of his room. You are conflating works and salvation. It is either saved by grace alone, or grace plus works. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too, you cannot do that.
Grace or works not both.

AMEN TT......grace or works.....end of story.....one or the other and a combo of both = false gospel with no power to save and those who teach it are double cursed by God....and those who believe it are called bewitched and foolish by Paul under inspiration.....

Therefore we conclude a man is JUSTIFIED (rendered legally innocent before God) by faith without the deeds/works of the law......end of story!

 

[Magenta]

Not only do I fully believe saved by grace through faith alone which results in one being saved, justified, sealed and sanctified eternally in Christ by faith before one micro gram of work or fruit being produced (other than the work of the Heavenly father in belief)...I also believe in eternal security based upon the following....and posted this on another thread.....

For salvation to be lost the following must occur.....

1. Jesus is a liar

a. I will never leave you nor forsake you
b. All that the Father hath given me I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day

2. The Power of God is weak, inept and must fail

a. We are KEPT by the power of GOD through faith

3. Christ is weak and fails in his work of faith

a. Jesus is the BEGINNER, FINISHER and COMPLETES the work of FAITH HE BEGAN IN US

4. THE words ETERNAL and EVERLASTING are LIES by GOD and actually MEAN TEMPORAL and CONDITIONAL

a. HE that believes on the son is HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE
b. ....AND I GIVE UNTO THEN ETERNAL LIFE

5. The SEALING of the HOLY SPIRIT is UNDONE and GOD LIED

a. SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION by the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE
6. GOD LIED AGAIN because the seed we are BORN of is CORRUPTABLE

a. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

7. John is a liar when he writes we may KNOW we have eternal life (see point 4)

a. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

8. God lied again when he inspired...

a. NOTHING shall separate you from the LOVE OF GOD

and ON and ON and ON and ON and ON......

It must be tragic to believe in a weak, inept god that cannot keep his word, his promises and one whose power is unable to keep you saved after he saved you at YOUR WORST and while in a totally LOST STATE!

​

 

[Ariel82]

You ask this question on a Christian web site?
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus who died on the cross and rose the third day. He was sin free and as such was the unblemished Lamb of God dying in our place taking the sins of those who accept His sacrifice on Himself,

It is a good question to ask any where at any time.

 

[benhur]

Jesus was not born the son of God by water....which means your bolded quote is false and not of God.....

Folks the above bolded quote is false and a flat lie......

Jesus was born a son of God by the SPIRIT of GOD and he was dealt the SPIRIT WITHOUT measure from the WOMB.....LUKE's account of his birth supports my statement.

I said: Jesus was born of the water = water baptized
You said I said: Jesus was born the son of God by water. That I did not say, so all your 'folks that is false and is a lie' statement is not the truth.

You do know that Jesus was water baptized by full immersion by a human man, just like you?

 

[TruthTalk]

My family is from Cambodia, and I grew up Buddhist.

I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior the summer after I graduated from college.

I read a book called "From Buddhism to Christianity" it made the claim that in Cambodia there were old Buddhist scrolls predicting a Messiah who would come and lead people out of this world of pure/samsara.

The first Buddha even said he was not the moon(salvation) but a finger pointing to the moon.

To me Buddhism teaches the Law and moral codes like the old covenant taught to Israelites. The Word casts out demons.

Most Buddhist like some carnal people claiming to be Christians don't seek to escape the world, but to real blessings and rewards from the world by doing good works.

If the Gospel message doesn't contain Jesus and the criss for the remission of sins, then at the heart the message is no different.

Agape love is not a concept that can be taught by mere words but must be loved and freely given to those who don't deserve grace and forgiveness.

To love your enemies.

To give not to gain or out of fear of losing anything, but because God first loved you.

It goes beyond spoken words to words written upon our hearts.

Thank you Ariel82, my wife was Buddhist all her adult life until after we first met . We met and then married later in Thailand, Febuary 2002, a traditional Thai wedding. Her Mom made a profession of belief in Jesu, one month before she passed at 80yrs old, God is Great!

I am a Vietnam Veteran, US Army, 4th inf, Div. 4/42 battalion, I served in Vietnam 1969-1979 in central highlands of Vietnam, I went to Cambodia in June of 1969 on a 6 day extraction mission to rescue one company of 101st Airborne Rangers, (a bout 50 troops), from the enemy. We won they lost.

I will read your testimony to my wife this evening, she will like....

God bless!

 

[TruthTalk]

Well excuse me my Vietnam service "date" was from 1969-1970, and not 1979 --
TruthTalk does not lie....

 

[Ariel82]

Correction..,,accepted Jesus summer after high school before fall semester in college.....perfection still eludes me, (sigh)

 

[AngelFrog]

: Not By Works

Originally Posted by VCO

I also said "Climbing into a Baptistery is PART OF OUR WALK WITH CHRIST, preferably one of the first STEPS. Something WE DO AFTER WE ARE SAVED."


​

We are saved the moment we believe. A Baptistery is good, but living water is better. You don't need ceremony either. Just for anyone who may be reading this and wondering about Baptism.
I know people who live near the ocean. They make a ritual of it their own self. Because we are in relationship with holy God , not a religion. So they maybe say fast the day before, then they make their way to the ocean say on a full moon. When the light of the world, Christ is also in the sky as his creation of light in the darkness. They go swimming. They maybe pray first.

It is an outward sign of an inward covenant and rebirth as a new creature. Washing away the old, rising from the state of death, dead in our sins, as Jesus himself arose from the tomb.

Just an idea to share that friends have done when they've found our Lord. I was baptized in a lake when I was 12. It was great.

Though it is possible to meet those who I call 'legalists'. Those who think there is a strict structure to do things, and maybe they're following a denominational guideline. But Jesus abolished the old law and the grace of God took its place. Amen!

God Bless.

​

 

[dcontroversal]

I said: Jesus was born of the water = water baptized
You said I said: Jesus was born the son of God by water. That I did not say, so all your 'folks that is false and is a lie' statement is not the truth.

You do know that Jesus was water baptized by full immersion by a human man, just like you?

Does not matter....both are wrong....Jesus was born the son of God by the spirit.....we all know you make immersion part of salvation and being a son of God.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Well excuse me my Vietnam service "date" was from 1969-1970, and not 1979 --
TruthTalk does not lie....

I knew what you meant......and that Army and Marines both had a little different time in country......

 

[garee]

Sadly I think more and more people are sick of the denominatial stuff, and going to non denoms, where the focus is on body life and the word and discipleship. Not how to present sunday morning service and denominational infighting

No such thing as non-denominational or no sect. I would offer first of all we walk by faith.... the unseen eternal, and not by sight as that seen, the temporal and not as if the kingdom of God does come by observation, and the smallest sect is where two or three gathers together under the authority of His word.....He is there. God is the one witness who was there working in the affairs of men he does not accept the witness of Men. His witness as one who was there working in the heart of man, to both do and will His good pleasure is greater than the hearts of man. He knows all things even the intent and desires of it. ​

​

 

[tourist]

Well excuse me my Vietnam service "date" was from 1969-1970, and not 1979 --
TruthTalk does not lie....

God bless you for your service to our country.

 

[benhur]

False and a total contradiction......not what James teaches either......no matter how you slice and dice the above is a works based salvation.......and totally denies the truth that those who have been saved by faith have done the work of the Heavenly Father......

What good works did the thief on the cross do....NOT ONE!

Nor was he saved before the cross
Nor was he immersed
Nor did he quote the "Roman Road"
Nor was he a member of a church or had religious affiliation

He was a murderer and a thief being put to death for his crimes

a. He acknowledged his guilt
b. He acknowledged the innocence of Christ
c. He acknowledged the Lordship of Christ and his coming kingdom

He had SAVING faith without ONE DEED, WORK or IMMERSION

Your view is false, leads people astray, binds the hands of men under a false religious creed and is not of God.

THEREFORE, we conclude that a man is justified WITHOUT the deeds/works of the law. <---THIS verse alone contradicts the bolded fallacy in your above quote.

How do you know that the thief on the cross was not saved before the cross, as hundreds of people were baptized by Jesus's disciples while Jesus looked on? He could have been 1 of them that believed.

How do you know that the thief was never immersed, as hundreds of people were baptized by Jesus's disciples while Jesus looked on? He could have been 1 of them that believed.

I don't know what the "Roman Road" is.

How do you know that the thief was not a member of a church or had religious affiliation? There were hundreds of people that were baptized by Jesus's disciples as Jesus looked on. He could have been a believer, been baptized and was a member of the fledgling Christian church.

The bible talks about the thief, but in the 4 gospels never mentions that he was a murderer. Matthew said he was a thief, Mark say he was a thief, Luke said he was a malefactor, and John said he was an 'other'. So did you say he was a murderer to make him look more deviant than he really was or did someone in the NT say he was a murderer?

The thief did acknowledge his guilt.
The thief did acknowledge the innocence of Christ.
The theif did acknowledge that Jesus was the Lord. Is it possible he had prior knowledge of the Lord and his disciples, and believed and was baptized?

The bible is silent in regards to his faith, deeds, works, or immersion. You must also be silent.

Therefore it would be presumptuous on your part to come to any conclusions because of what you think the thief's life experience was.

 

[benhur]

benhur is a typical "Scripture Twister", they are very crafty at deceiving people, especially young Christian which is his target group.

Thank you for your kind Christian words.

 

[dcontroversal]

How do you know that the thief on the cross was not saved before the cross, as hundreds of people were baptized by Jesus's disciples while Jesus looked on? He could have been 1 of them that believed.

How do you know that the thief was never immersed, as hundreds of people were baptized by Jesus's disciples while Jesus looked on? He could have been 1 of them that believed.

I don't know what the "Roman Road" is.

How do you know that the thief was not a member of a church or had religious affiliation? There were hundreds of people that were baptized by Jesus's disciples as Jesus looked on. He could have been a believer, been baptized and was a member of the fledgling Christian church.

The bible talks about the thief, but in the 4 gospels never mentions that he was a murderer. Matthew said he was a thief, Mark say he was a thief, Luke said he was a malefactor, and John said he was an 'other'. So did you say he was a murderer to make him look more deviant than he really was or did someone in the NT say he was a murderer?

The thief did acknowledge his guilt.
The thief did acknowledge the innocence of Christ.
The theif did acknowledge that Jesus was the Lord. Is it possible he had prior knowledge of the Lord and his disciples, and believed and was baptized?

The bible is silent in regards to his faith, deeds, works, or immersion. You must also be silent.

Therefore it would be presumptuous on your part to come to any conclusions because of what you think the thief's life experience was.

Study the word and maybe you can figure out how I can say what I said....fairly simple a the end of the day.........

 

[benhur]

And jesus will say depart, because you replaced 5e baptism of god with the baptism of man.

Good luck trying to earn your dalvation then deny it, you will be in the same line as he jews who tried to add the work of circumcision

I would not think of replacing the baptism of the HS. I have experienced being born of the spirit. I was also born of the water just like Jesus told us to be.