Baptism and holy spirit

[shrume]

If they never speak in tongues, then how can they build up their most holy faith?​

Lots of ways. Study the Bible, pray, fellowship with like-minded believers, give, and more.

Please do not misunderstand me. I do believe in operating the manifestations, and I do believe that God would like all Christians to speak in tongues. But the fact is that most don't. I submit it's due to ignorance of what speaking in tongues is.

Also, do not be ignorant of the kingdom of darkness. Demons love to copy God. Think about it. They can do signs and wonders too (antichrist will do the same thing and they're not of God) . And, they can definitely speak in a counterfeit tongue.......google search it. If you're bold enough, watch a video of it on YouTube.

​

If a person is possessed by a demon and forced to speak a language against their will that they do not know, that is not speaking in tongues. It's possession.

Christians speaking in tongues by the freedom of their will can't be counterfeited.

 

[shrume]

Urgh, you do not understand the types of prayers She groaned in her spirit.

The Bible does not say that.

She wept bitterly.

Yes.

You need to ask God to give you revelations of the scripture.

Sheesh.

It kills me that so many people seem to think that whenever someone does not agree with them it's because God has not given them the correct revelation of the scriptures.

...right.

 

[Noose]

Again, i want to ask a simple question:

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who are these people and what convinces you that you aren't part of them?

Truly truly i tell you, many of you have failed to recognize the times/season we are in.
God worked with signs and wonders then and there's a reason He did that but not now, and there's a good reason He doesn't. The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs - so it is very clear that people speaking incomprehensible words are not of this kingdom. This also goes to miracle workers/faith healers/ those that raise the dead.
This is antichrist's time whose coming is accompanied by fake signs and wonders- so clever, even the elect are duped.

We were told that the beast from the sea appoints another beast of the land who has two horns like that of lamb who dupes people with signs and wonders.
These (two horns like that of a lamb) without doubt shows that these fake signs are done right in the church.

Time to think.

 

[JB2018]

Lots of ways. Study the Bible, pray, fellowship with like-minded believers, give, and more.

Please do not misunderstand me. I do believe in operating the manifestations, and I do believe that God would like all Christians to speak in tongues. But the fact is that most don't. I submit it's due to ignorance of what speaking in tongues is.


If a person is possessed by a demon and forced to speak a language against their will that they do not know, that is not speaking in tongues. It's possession.

Christians speaking in tongues by the freedom of their will can't be counterfeited.

Not all Christians have the gift of speaking in tongues. Those are ones who speak in tongues constantly. Yeah, study that gift in your free time.. And, Oh my Goodness. You're not reading what I said. Demons use a counterfeit tongues. Those people are possessed and demons will use a fake tongue through them. Please, do your research. If you're not aware of how the enemy does things then he'll forever fool you...

 

[garee]

1 Cor 14:4) He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.​

I would offer The first (edifieth himself)... is not what we are to desire or seek after .... Its more like doubting Thomas who had to walk by sight and touch the Son of man . Jesus did not say well done but warned him about be faithless (no faith) Be not faithless but believe in the eternal not seen

Jude

20) But ye, beloved, ]building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Yes we build up our selves in the faith of Christ which alone comes from hearing God not seen , praying in the Holy Spirit, not in respect to our own self as in self edification. A form of pride.

​

 

[shrume]

Not all Christians have the gift of speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is not a gift. It is a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit. And the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man (Christian) (1 Cor 12:7), and God would like all Christians to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5).

Those are ones who speak in tongues constantly.

I believe that all Christians should speak in tongues as much as they can. Ephesians admonishes us to always be praying in the spirit (Eph 6:18). Paul spoke in tongues more that the entire Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:18).

Yeah, study that gift in your free time.. And, Oh my Goodness. You're not reading what I said. Demons use a counterfeit tongues. Those people are possessed and demons will use a fake tongue through them. Please, do your research. If you're not aware of how the enemy does things then he'll forever fool you...

I read and understood what you said.

 

[garee]

I do not know what a "sign gift" is. I do know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is. I absolutely do believe in the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit, and that God wants us to use them.

You say you know what the manifestation of speaking in tongues is. Is a sign that some believe God? And is called a sign gift or charismatics pertaining to sign gifts?​

[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]​

 

[shrume]

Again, i want to ask a simple question:

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who are these people and what convinces you that you aren't part of them?

Those are people who claim to be doing things for God, but really aren't.

Also, when Jesus was speaking to those people, Pentecost had not yet come. Since Pentecost, when people believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they become born of Holy Spirit, children of God, and nothing can separate them from the love of God in Christ.

Truly truly i tell you, many of you have failed to recognize the times/season we are in.
God worked with signs and wonders then and there's a reason He did that but not now, and there's a good reason He doesn't. The kingdom of God doesn't come with observable signs - so it is very clear that people speaking incomprehensible words are not of this kingdom.

Those are your words, not the Bible's.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

This also goes to miracle workers/faith healers/ those that raise the dead.

That's a mighty wide brush you're painting with, my friend.

This is antichrist's time whose coming is accompanied by fake signs and wonders- so clever, even the elect are duped.

We were told that the beast from the sea appoints another beast of the land who has two horns like that of lamb who dupes people with signs and wonders.
These (two horns like that of a lamb) without doubt shows that these fake signs are done right in the church.

Time to think.

While many anti-christs are currently in the world, we are not in the trib yet.

 

[shrume]

I would offer The first (edifieth himself)... is not what we are to desire or seek after .... Its more like doubting Thomas who had to walk by sight and touch the Son of man . Jesus did not say well done but warned him about be faithless (no faith) Be not faithless but believe in the eternal not seen


​

Yes we build up our selves in the faith of Christ which alone comes from hearing God not seen , praying in the Holy Spirit, not in respect to our own self as in self edification. A form of pride.

​

20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Building yourselves up is the same as edifying yourself. Praying in the Holy Ghost is praying in the spirit: speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:14-15).

 

[Lewiz]

Can you give an example where praying in the spirit is not speaking in tongues?


This does not prove that praying in the spirit is not speaking in tongues.

Praying in the Spirit can be in tongues, but it should be interpreted in our hearts so we can have the understanding of what we're saying.(1 Corinthians 14:10-19)

Praying in the Spirit can be being led by the Spirit prophetically as well. That is when the HS gives you the words in English instead of tongues. A Spirit-filled believer can be used to worship prophetically(day of Pentecost), in singing, in preaching, & in teaching. This is how the all the church should prophesy, properly fulfilling Joel's prophecy. This is also why we see throughout the NT the phrase be "led by the Spirit". When not in dreams & visions, it will be vocally.

 

[Lewiz]

Some of us seek to speak in tongues because God wants us to (1 Cor 14:5).

I can agree with that if you're seeking the better gifts first.

1 Corinthians 12:31 (ESV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 12:31 (NASB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 12:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 12:31 (NLT2)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So you should earnestly desire the most helpful gifts. But now let me show you a way of life that is best of all.
1 Corinthians 12:31 (NRSV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But strive for the greater gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

 

[Lewiz]

People receive the gift of the holy spirit the instant they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only ones who had to "wait for the promise" were the twelve, before the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:4). That's because the gift of the Holy Spirit that we have today was not available before the day of Pentecost.

John 7:
39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

It was actually 120 in the upper room. And they all received it.

 

[Lewiz]

Speaking in tongues is never demonic.

I have seen it, and dancing in the spirit, too. It is an imitation. It imitates the Holy Spirit. Usually it's someone possessed.

 

[Lewiz]

I have seen it, and dancing in the spirit, too. It is an imitation. It imitates the Holy Spirit. Usually it's someone possessed.

It is also faked by the ignorant.

 

[Lewiz]

Urgh, you do not understand the types of prayers She groaned in her spirit. She wept bitterly. You need to ask God to give you revelations of the scripture.

This scripture isn't to be used for this subject. There's no proof of Hannah being Spirit-led when she prayed this.

 

[shrume]

It was actually 120 in the upper room. And they all received it.

The twelve were the first ones to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it happened in the Temple.

The upper room is where the apostles abode. It's where they lived, slept, brushed their teeth, etc.

The gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Temple, where thousands of people were gathered.

 

[Noose]

Those are people who claim to be doing things for God, but really aren't.

Exactly my point, speaking in tongues/miracle working/healing e.t.c and claims that they are from God whereas they aren't.

Also, when Jesus was speaking to those people, Pentecost had not yet come. Since Pentecost, when people believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they become born of Holy Spirit, children of God, and nothing can separate them from the love of God in Christ.

Jesus was speaking about judgement day and the context of what He said was about false prophets. What do you know about false prophets? did they come before Pentecost?

Those are your words, not the Bible's.

Yes they are, but i know what i'm talking about.

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

You have quoted this single verse for quite some time now but why don't you quote it in its context?

1 Cor 14:6Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

And what Paul was talking about is not the meaningless blubber we hear today, Paul was talking on the basis of:

Rom 8:25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words.

While many anti-christs are currently in the world, we are not in the trib yet.

Indeed, many antichrists and this is what they do:

Matt 24:4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.... 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

 

[JB2018]

This scripture isn't to be used for this subject. There's no proof of Hannah being Spirit-led when she prayed this.

its called a revelation.

 

[JB2018]

I have seen it, and dancing in the spirit, too. It is an imitation. It imitates the Holy Spirit. Usually it's someone possessed.

What do you mean by dancing?

 

[shrume]

Praying in the Spirit can be in tongues

Praying in the spirit is always speaking in tongues.

but it should be interpreted in our hearts so we can have the understanding of what we're saying.(1 Corinthians 14:10-19)

Those verses do not say that we should interpret tongues in our hearts. The Bible states that when a person speaks in tongues, he does not understand what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2).

When a person speaks in tongues out loud, he must also interpret, so the church can be edified. It says nothing about interpreting your own tongue when speaking in tongues to yourself.

Praying in the Spirit can be being led by the Spirit prophetically as well. That is when the HS gives you the words in English instead of tongues.

Tongues is tongues, prophesy is prophesy. Prophesy is never referred to as praying in the spirit. They are different manifestations.

A Spirit-filled believer can be used to worship prophetically(day of Pentecost), in singing, in preaching, & in teaching.

A spirit-filled believer can operate the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Three of those manifestations are tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophesy.

This is how the all the church should prophesy, properly fulfilling Joel's prophecy. This is also why we see throughout the NT the phrase be "led by the Spirit". When not in dreams & visions, it will be vocally.

"Led by the Spirit" means a lot more than operating the manifestations.

Gotta run for now. God bless.