Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

You never gave me the sections of scripture condemning statements of doctrine. You just jeer and ridicule them without scripture backing you up. The Bible not your opinion. All book, chapter, verses please.

Scripture not anyone's opinion is what you keep saying. Where is the scripture? I will keep asking this. It is your own statement remember!!

The burden of proof is on you....show me where the bible states to go outside the bible as the rule of faith and practice and place a creed written by men over it.

 

[Endoscopy]

I don't believe we are able to accurately judge someone by their deeds, for we are unable to see the true intent of the heart. God can though. The heart is wicked above all things who can know it? I could do many good deeds as far as human standards apply, but if my deeds are not wrought in God through the Spirit, and out of love, they mean nothing. Professing Christ in true faith is a more fruitful deed than helping many people in your own righteous motivation. Our good works and sacrifices stem from the divine love revealed to us. Anything done lacking the love given to us to do it is worthless. Though our intention may be good, without the God given love as motivation, and our God given faith, it is not considered good works. Faith without works is dead does not mean you must physically help anyone whenever possible, it means that if you have faith your works will show through it. James is not saying if you have faith then you must have works, He is saying simply that it is impossible to have one without the other. Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works. Faith produces worthy works is what he is stating. He is not judging those who claim Christ and do nothing, He is saying that works is the proof of faith, you can not have one without the other. Like I said, I could constantly do good works, deeds, but without faith they are dead works.

Jesus said by their fruits you will know them. Examples:
Does the pastor of a church often preach the gospel message often. Secular ministers have taken over the big 7 protestant denominations.
Does the person commit crimes?
Do they ridicule concept of God?
Do they ever talk about Jesus?
Etc.

They are there if you look for them. Especially if you discuss religion with them.

 

[Endoscopy]

The burden of proof is on you....show me where the bible states to go outside the bible as the rule of faith and practice and place a creed written by men over it.

Absolutely wrong. The early elders created the Roman and Apostle's Creed. Therefore it is up to you to prove they were in error. Google the history of the Roman and Apostle's Creed. Then tell why the elders were in error!!

Roman Creed 200s
Apostles Creed 390

Both created by elder to fight heresies.

 

[Endoscopy]

5 minute rule again
It can be used to fight against non Christian religions claiming to be Christian because it is a short statement about what a Christian MUST believe!!
LDS for example.

 

[Ariel82]

It was done by Jesus comparing works to fruit. Good fruit from good trees and bad fruit from bad trees. Which do you generate is the answer of how you will be perceived. It defines whether you are saved or not

Man looks at the outward fruit. God looks at the inward heart.

God pours pure water into our hearts but often when we speak it gets tainted with salt.

I believe God teaches and cleanses us every day so that we can be pure vessels to share His words and love with others.

Yet it still goes to...do you work out of fear of an angry God who will cast you away if you don't meet his standards?


Or do you work because of the love you feel in your heart from God who accepted you even when you didn't deserve forgiveness?

Do you work to earn God's approval?

or because you know you already have it?

Do you know that nothing you can do will make God love you more or less?

Do you understand what agape love truly is?

 

[dcontroversal]

Absolutely wrong. The early elders created the Roman and Apostle's Creed. Therefore it is up to you to prove they were in error. Google the history of the Roman and Apostle's Creed. Then tell why the elders were in error!!

Roman Creed 200s
Apostles Creed 390

Both created by elder to fight heresies.

wrong again.....who cares what some creed said written in 200 or 390.....serious....your religion is really shining through....prove the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice....the truth is...you cannot, because that view is satanic to the core....to put and or promote uninspired men and some creed written 200 to 400 years after the bible over the inspired word of God reeks of pure ignorance...

 

[Ariel82]

I do not need a creed by men....I have the bible by GOD.....wake up.......

Wait are you talking about the Apostles creed or the "must have works for salvation" creed?

Personally I like the Apostle creed and find it very useful to combat heresies.

As far as I know I thought you believe it too..

***

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;

And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;*
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic** church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

***Catholic means universal..not denomination**

 

[joefizz]

I like Creed the music group but I wouldn't trust every word they sing.

 

[Ariel82]

I like Creed the music group but I wouldn't trust every word they sing.

Lol ...we need a drum roll for that.

 

[Yahshua]

Man looks at the outward fruit. God looks at the inward heart.

God pours pure water into our hearts but often when we speak it gets tainted with salt.

I believe God teaches and cleanses us every day so that we can be pure vessels to share His words and love with others.

Yet it still goes to...do you work out of fear of an angry God who will cast you away if you don't meet his standards?


Or do you work because of the love you feel in your heart from God who accepted you even when you didn't deserve forgiveness?

Do you work to earn God's approval?

or because you know you already have it?

Do you know that nothing you can do will make God love you more or less?

Do you understand what agape love truly is?

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.

- Paul

 

[dcontroversal]

Wait are you talking about the Apostles creed or the "must have works for salvation" creed?

Personally I like the Apostle creed and find it very useful to combat heresies.

As far as I know I thought you believe it too..

***

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;

And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;*
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic** church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

***Catholic means universal..not denomination**

It is not the creed, but when one elevates it above the bible as the rule of faith and practice which he does.....and I do not believe in the universal church....on the earth churches<---PLURAL and each it's own individual body of believers with equal power, right, authority and scope before God....ONE body of believers in HEAVEN

 

[joefizz]

Lol ...we need a drum roll for that.

[video=youtube;D8bCiV0dgGM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8bCiV0dgGM[/video]

 

[50C1AL0N3]

50C I am fully aware of JAMES and what he teaches....and I am fully aware of Romans and what Paul states as well....

James--->before men our faith is seen and justified by works
Paul-->before GOD our faith justifies without any work attached

Salvation is a one off eternal event at the moment of faith without one work attached other than the work of the Heavenly Father....to believe on him whom he sent.

ANY WORKS all works are the by product of the saving faith one already possesses in Christ...a product of growth, maturity, and produced by CHRIST in us and through us a a living sacrifice....they do not top off salvation, embellish salvation, finish off salvation, keep us saved and without a doubt....believers, based upon the word, the transformation that comes by the word and to what level they are changed may produce 1 piece to a multitude....some good, some bad and regardless...they may be stunted in growth based upon any number of things and may produce, may quit producing, may go through periods of production and a lack thereof......

at the end of the day regardless of the above....IT IS FAITH AND FAITH ALONE that ETERNALLY SAVES A MAN and NOT of WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

Absolutely agree. It is God that justifies, nothing or no one else. But, we are originally saved by God's extended grace. Through his grace he calls us by the imputing of the Holy Spirit, which then endowes us with the faith that justifies our salvation. From my understanding anyhow. It is 100% the will and work of God. Thank the Good Lord that my eternal destination isn't bestowed on my filthy, sin ridden self. Amen to that.

 

[Endoscopy]

Man looks at the outward fruit. God looks at the inward heart.

God pours pure water into our hearts but often when we speak it gets tainted with salt.

I believe God teaches and cleanses us every day so that we can be pure vessels to share His words and love with others.

Yet it still goes to...do you work out of fear of an angry God who will cast you away if you don't meet his standards?


Or do you work because of the love you feel in your heart from God who accepted you even when you didn't deserve forgiveness?

Do you work to earn God's approval?

or because you know you already have it?

Do you know that nothing you can do will make God love you more or less?

Do you understand what agape love truly is?

Then why did Jesus say that by their fruits you will know them.

 

[Endoscopy]

It is not the creed, but when one elevates it above the bible as the rule of faith and practice which he does.....and I do not believe in the universal church....on the earth churches<---PLURAL and each it's own individual body of believers with equal power, right, authority and scope before God....ONE body of believers in HEAVEN

You are the one making the false and foolish assertions. I and others DO NOT put it above the Bible. Only you think that. It is a statement of doctrine you obviously are unable to find Biblical error in. Thus you are ranting opinion instead of scripture. Try scripture instead.

 

[VCO]

Jesus said by their fruits you will know them. Examples:
Does the pastor of a church often preach the gospel message often. Secular ministers have taken over the big 7 protestant denominations.
Does the person commit crimes?
Do they ridicule concept of God?
Do they ever talk about Jesus?
Etc.

They are there if you look for them. Especially if you discuss religion with them.

So WHY do you suppose that I choose to attend a non-denominational, conservative, evangelical type, Bible Teaching Church with one hour sermons that exposit verse by verse through a book, before after weeks or months, we go on to another book?

The Spiritual Fruits that typify a Genuine born again Christian, is a GOD-given Lifestyle of these Characteristics:


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace {with GOD}, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.


Which is the OPPOSITE of these Lifestyle Characteristics:


Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery {The word is actually "pharmakeia", in other words DRUGS.*}, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


* Which you wanted to get high, back in Bible times, you went to a Sorcerer, who sold "Magic Potions".

NOTE: The Lifestyle Characteristics of any one person takes a while, but YOU WILL KNOW THEM by their Fruits.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are the one making the false and foolish assertions. I and others DO NOT put it above the Bible. Only you think that. It is a statement of doctrine you obviously are unable to find Biblical error in. Thus you are ranting opinion instead of scripture. Try scripture instead.

Do not make mee go back and cut and pastw where you said the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice and the numerous references where you push it over the bible

 

[50C1AL0N3]

Nothing can be placed over the power of the truth and last. What exactly is the bottom line that the intensity stems from? It is good to be zealous of the Lord, but it can sometimes lack control when wisdom and humility are left out. Sorry if it seems I'm being a busybody in your discussion, but I naturally desire to form an opinion or belief on these mystery matter. ...C'mon peeps, what are we quarreling over?

 

[Jim0426]

Brother did you say that the Lord...failed us? The problem is with us,we fail to "Yield" our everyday choices to Christ. So He may transform us, by His Spirit from glory to glory. We MUST surrender our lives to God, the one's who do this have ALWAYS been God's people. They have the Living God living in them, prompting them what's best for them. Jesus is Coming Soon and He's coming for His people, a people without spot or wrinkle. A mere "profession of faith" will NOT result in eternity, many pastors/people believe/teach this, a " once saved always saved " teaching. But this is not what the Word of God teaches. Jesus warned us in Matthew 24 saying "let NO ONE DECEIVE you by any means. I pray that we read for ourselves what the God of the universe has to say to us, individually and to not leave our eternity in the hands of anyone other than our Loving Saviour and Creator Jesus to the glory of God the Father, may Be richly bless you on your walk with Him
Jim

 

[Ariel82]

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.

- Paul

or because you know you already have it (God's approval)?

Past tense "approved"

God's acceptance into His family isn't based upon your righteous works but because of faith in Jesus work upon the cross.

Do you work FOR approval OR BECAUSE you have been approved and look towards the promise in faith?

You can't show God's agape love to others if you don't feel and understand it yourself.