Not By Works

[Lafftur]

Hi everyone.

I know there is a prayer forum but I want to post a request here as I know a lot of you on here.

I have just got back from the vets after having our oldest family dog put to sleep.

My kids are devastated and two of them are in middle of exams. Please pray for them.
They do not recall life without Toffee.

Please pray for me as well. I made the choice to put her down.
I had no choice, over the last month's we have been back and forth to the vets. She had liver and spleen problems.
This last week she had gone down hill, we were at the vets last night and they have us painkillers and meds. But today that's not even worked.

It was so painful to see her in pain and I wasn't prepared to put her through an op, she was 13.

But I feel like a murderer.
I'm truly gutted as well.

So I ask for prayer for us all.

I'm say here typing and my Toffee dog would have been sitting next me head on my lap.

Hi Bill G, I'm sorry about Toffee.

Even though, there aren't scriptures that explain what happens to pets, the way I see it is..........

The Earth is a pet store and while we're here we get to pick out the pets we get to have in heaven and God lets us play with them for a little while. Then, He takes them to heaven and we get to pick another pet. This cycle continues until we also finally get to go to heaven.

Finally, in heaven we get our pets back and death is no more!! So, I tell my kids to just enjoy your visit in the pet store - it's just a visit - we really get to keep them forever in heaven - our true home.

I know it seems like a silly story to tell, but it might actually be true and sure does comfort me and my kiddos! I hope it would comfort you, too!

 

[dcontroversal]

Try this on for size. Two Biblical concepts.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Faith without works (deeds) is dead.

Here is James on the topic. Dcon will have a hissy fit about James trying to claim he is saying something else. I stand on he means what he literally says

James 2 NIV

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Have you apologized yet for losing your cool, falsely accusing and cussing on a Christian website? And for the record...I have no problem with James, just your Catholic interpretation of James and the Catholic creed that you push over the word of God.

 

[TruthTalk]

Try this on for size. Two Biblical concepts.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Faith without works (deeds) is dead.

Here is James on the topic. Dcon will have a hissy fit about James trying to claim he is saying something else. I stand on he means what he literally says

James 2 NIV

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

The person James is referring to was never saved to begin with, his Faith was never True. A tree without fruit is not dead, neither is a True Christian's Faith ever dead. If you cannot see the difference I cannot help you. James2:14-18 is not talking about a True Christian.

God bless

 

[dcontroversal]

The person James is referring to was never saved to begin with, his Faith was never True. A tree without fruit is not dead, neither is a True Christian's Faith ever dead. If you cannot see the difference I cannot help you. James2:14-18 is not talking about a True Christian.

God bless

His creed and religion in all honesty cannot allow him to grasp that truth.........I mean....even creation proves this point....an apple tree for most of the year is fruitless and he lives in a state that is full of fruit trees that are fruitless for a period of time each year....and yet very much alive......and exactly how many apples must a tree bear to be an apple tree....heck...it is an apple tree from the very micro second it sprouts.....and my not produce fore years and may only produce 1 apple or an abundance or have years of production and years of drought or frost where it does not produce but is very much alive....why is this concept so hard to understand.......

 

[Endoscopy]

Have you apologized yet for losing your cool, falsely accusing and cussing on a Christian website? And for the record...I have no problem with James, just your Catholic interpretation of James and the Catholic creed that you push over the word of God.

Go fly a kite.
I am very tired of your ego pushing your view as the absolute TRUTH. You reject what the early elders did and why. You don't seem to understand what a statement of doctrine is and why it was created and rant against it saying it is something it isn't. You never found fault with the content but just railed at for existing.
Go fly a kite.

 

[dcontroversal]

Go fly a kite.
I am very tired of your ego pushing your view as the absolute TRUTH. You reject what the early elders did and why. You don't seem to understand what a statement of doctrine is and why it was created and rant against it saying it is something it isn't. You never found fault with the content but just railed at for existing.
Go fly a kite.

HAHAH ok.....all can go see you push a creed and a religion over the bible .....cannot even apologize for losing your cool and your tongue.....ego has nothing to do with my adamant stand on the fact that it is faith alone that saves a man.....take it up with God and tell him the creed takes precedence over his word when you stand before him.....see how that flies....

 

[Endoscopy]

I ignore nothing....saved BY FAITH and FAITH alone is what the bible teaches.....and ALL who have believed have done the work of the Heavenly Father....and what your religious denomination teaches....could care less.....!

Salvation is...

a. A gift of grace
b. Freely and eternally given through faith
c. Not earned, maintained, kept, topped off or embellished with works of any kind
d. Not based upon some faux law keeping drivel pushed by lawyers and Pharisees
e. Not based upon religious persuasion or affiliation
f. Not based upon sacramental observation
g. Not based upon IMMERSION which is the picture and public testimony of what has taken place by faith
h. It is eternally given and maintained by the power of God
I. It is begun by Christ, finished by Christ and Completed by Christ
j. It is of INCORRUPTABLE SEED
k. It is based upon the promises of Christ and his eternal word
l. It cannot be forfeit and or lost because it is Eternal and everlasting
m. ALL who have exercised saving faith have done the work of the HEAVENLY FATHER

and you owe everyone an apology for losing your cool and cussing (real good representation of your religion hey!)

Then according to you works is not needed contrary to James stating faith without deeds (works) is dead. Also ignoring Jesus saying by their fruits (works) you will know them.

All scripture on a topic MUST be considered on any topic. I suggest you invest in one of the systematic theology books. They contain a list of all verses on the very inclusive topics they cover. That way you will have a better understanding of what the Bible says on a given topic.

I have Berkhofs Systematic Theology on kindle.

 

[dcontroversal]

Then according to you works is not needed contrary to James stating faith without deeds (works) is dead. Also ignoring Jesus saying by their fruits (works) you will know them.

All scripture on a topic MUST be considered on any topic. I suggest you invest in one of the systematic theology books. They contain a list of all verses on the very inclusive topics they cover. That way you will have a better understanding of what the Bible says on a given topic.

I have Berkhofs Systematic Theology on kindle.

Read the whole thread and every reply I have made and then come back and accuse me of the above drivel....faith ALONE is what saves a man....end of story!

 

[Endoscopy]

HAHAH ok.....all can go see you push a creed and a religion over the bible .....cannot even apologize for losing your cool and your tongue.....ego has nothing to do with my adamant stand on the fact that it is faith alone that saves a man.....take it up with God and tell him the creed takes precedence over his word when you stand before him.....see how that flies....

What denomination do you adhere to? You go to church regularly don't you? All denominations have doctrine statements. They are online. I asked this of you before. Find the error before ranting about the existence of a statement doctrine. Where is the error in the Apostles Creed. You obviously didn't find any or you would have shouted it to the board.

 

[Endoscopy]

Read the whole thread and every reply I have made and then come back and accuse me of the above drivel....faith ALONE is what saves a man....end of story!

Then explain why faith without works is dead? James 2.
In it he states he shows his faith by his works. Works is the only evidence of faith. Works shows who is and isn't a Christian.

No works no faith. Works doesn't save but without works there is no faith.

You keep avoiding this connection. Why?

 

[dcontroversal]

What denomination do you adhere to? You go to church regularly don't you? All denominations have doctrine statements. They are online. I asked this of you before. Find the error before ranting about the existence of a statement doctrine. Where is the error in the Apostles Creed. You obviously didn't find any or you would have shouted it to the board.

How is it that you cannot figure out the simple truth that it is the fact that you elevate the CREED above the bible as the rule of faith and practice as to what defines a believer.....the day you said to me that the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice is the day you told me that your beliefs are not based upon scripture, but rather what men may say about scripture and exactly why you are totally missing the entire point of this thread....exactly why you misinterpret James...exactly why you fail to understand that believers may have 1 work, many works, at times no works, good work, bad works and that their salvation is not in question, but rather their reward or lack thereof.......it is not that hard to figure out!

 

[dcontroversal]

Then explain why faith without works is dead? James 2.
In it he states he shows his faith by his works. Works is the only evidence of faith. Works shows who is and isn't a Christian.

No works no faith. Works doesn't save but without works there is no faith.

You keep avoiding this connection. Why?

I am not avoiding anything whatsoever at all....but rather proper perspective.....and we have had this dance.....James is speaking of the invisible saving faith that man has being seen before men by their works....IT IS NOT SAYING that a MAN MUST HAVE WORKS to be saved....PAUL covers this as well and states that it is the invisible faith that man has that JUSTIFIES before GOD WITHOUT WORKS........

SAVED MEN produce EVERY flavor of work under the sun, some 1, some a multitude, some GOOD, some BAD and regardless....IT IS FAITH ALONE that justifies and saves a man before GOD without ONE work ATTACHED........

 

[Endoscopy]

His creed and religion in all honesty cannot allow him to grasp that truth.........I mean....even creation proves this point....an apple tree for most of the year is fruitless and he lives in a state that is full of fruit trees that are fruitless for a period of time each year....and yet very much alive......and exactly how many apples must a tree bear to be an apple tree....heck...it is an apple tree from the very micro second it sprouts.....and my not produce fore years and may only produce 1 apple or an abundance or have years of production and years of drought or frost where it does not produce but is very much alive....why is this concept so hard to understand.......

Incorrect analogy. People are not trees. A Christian will do works almost every day. Their actions and words demonstrate their beliefs. Those are their works. Only those who are bed ridden are unable to go out to do it. But they demonstrate their faith with those who come in contact with them and possibly over the internet.

Try again.

 

[dcontroversal]

Incorrect analogy. People are not trees. A Christian will do works almost every day. Their actions and words demonstrate their beliefs. Those are their works. Only those who are bed ridden are unable to go out to do it. But they demonstrate their faith with those who come in contact with them and possibly over the internet.

Try again.

HAHAHAHHA muct be the creed in you again....Jesus constantly compares men to wheat, tares, trees...wow man do you even study the bible...OH wait....no the creed gives you all you need....wow man!

 

[Endoscopy]

I am not avoiding anything whatsoever at all....but rather proper perspective.....and we have had this dance.....James is speaking of the invisible saving faith that man has being seen before men by their works....IT IS NOT SAYING that a MAN MUST HAVE WORKS to be saved....PAUL covers this as well and states that it is the invisible faith that man has that JUSTIFIES before GOD WITHOUT WORKS........

SAVED MEN produce EVERY flavor of work under the sun, some 1, some a multitude, some GOOD, some BAD and regardless....IT IS FAITH ALONE that justifies and saves a man before GOD without ONE work ATTACHED........

I totally reject your view of James 2. Told you this before. You reject the concept James states saying faith without deeds (works) is dead. That is very plain especially in context.

Here are 2 sections of scripture. First James on faith and works and Ephesians on salvation. They BOTH work together since both are scripture.

James 2 NIV
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.


Ephesians 2 NIV
Made Alive in Christ
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[dcontroversal]

I totally reject your view of James 2. Told you this before. You reject the concept James states saying faith without deeds (works) is dead. That is very plain especially in context.

Here are 2 sections of scripture. First James on faith and works and Ephesians on salvation. They BOTH work together.

James 2 NIV


Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.


Ephesians 2 NIV
Made Alive in Christ
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So what and I totally reject your Catholic/Presbyterian creed view of James that you peddle over the bible and will continue to stand against it.....so......there you have it.....

 

[Endoscopy]

So what and I totally reject your Catholic/Presbyterian creed view of James that you peddle over the bible and will continue to stand against it.....so......there you have it.....

There you go with the lie about the relationship between Presbyterian and Catholic faiths. I suggest you Google Presbyterian denominations and tell me which of these you are talking about Then there is the closely related Reformed denominations. You rant before understanding the subject. Do you even understand Reformed theology?? You are sickening in your ignorance.

Go read the Canons of Dort and the Heidelberg Catechism. Then discuss any errors you find.

 

[dcontroversal]

There you go with the lie about the relationship between Presbyterian and Catholic faiths. I suggest you Google Presbyterian denominations and tell me which of these you are talking about Then there is the closely related Reformed denominations. You rant before understanding the subject. Do you even understand Reformed theology?? You are sickening in your ignorance.

yep.....like saying the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice......keep believing the creed pal.......

 

[Endoscopy]

yep.....like saying the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice......keep believing the creed pal.......

Prove the error in a statement of doctrine before ranting about it. Go find all verses in the Bible condemning statements of doctrine. That way you can create your statement of doctrine against creedal statements. Do you know there are creedal statements in the New Testament I guess then we must reject it.

Go to this web site and read about the history and use of creeds dating back to the very begining of the Christian era and before..

The Importance (and Early Use) of Creeds | Cold Case Christianity

 

[Endoscopy]

yep.....like saying the bible is not the only rule of faith and practice......keep believing the creed pal.......

Please explain why a statement of doctrine resulting from researching scripture for all pertinent sections of scripture related to the issue is contrary to the Bible!!! Book chapter and verses please. The words of the Bible not your opinion. We are not to add to or take away from what scripture states.

Asked this before and got no response. You will need a systematic theology book to comply completely. Have fun trying without one. You will have to read the Bible from cover to cover taking notes about verses.