GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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previously discussed.
Numbers 24 & their ignorance regarding the person of Jesus Christ.
"doctrines" ≠ "the Law"
in what context?
why?
what other things did he list right along side this statement, and what qualities do they share?
why would he say "the Law" if he meant to say "the doctrines and commandments of men" ?
Perfect.
Stick you fingers in your ears and yell "slander, slander, slander. "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA."
It doesn't change the Biblical truth about the Pharisees and the "Laws of Men" they taught for doctrines.
did you state early on that you believed posthuman's question to be unanswerable?
if you believed that the question contained a faulty premise, did you so state up front?
(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
if I recall correctly, you claimed that you had answered the question, thus implying that the question is answerable, and further implying that the question did not contain a faulty premise.
He said "As touching the Law, a Pharisee".
For me it's a no-brainer. I think everyone should know that the Jews religious leaders, the Pharisees, corrupted God's Word and had done so for centuries.
When the Word which became Flesh sent them prophets to get them on the "lawful path" they killed them. When God sent Jesus to get them back on the "lawful" path, they killed Him as well, and Paul was one of the worse ones before his conversion, at least according to him..
Why are you so dead set against believing these truths about the Pharisees?
I really don't get it.
more slander...
answer the question, please:
why did Paul write "as touching the Law, a Pharisee" ?
why did he use exactly those words?
did the Holy Ghost screw up? did He accidentally inspire the wrong words?
what does Philippians 3:4 say?
do you believe it?
are they the wrong words?
so what is Paul doing here, confessing his sins? expressing his regrets?
does he consider having been circumcised according to the Law a sin?
being an Israelite?
being a Benjamite?
being not just any Hebrew, but "Hebrew of the Hebrews" ?
are these evil things?
in this context what is he saying?
this passage ain't easy. but it's doable. you really don't have to revise it.
post is showing you again and again how the Pharisees were using the Torah as the base for their doctrine. you keep rejecting it.
in John's gospel, Jesus healed a blind man on the Sabbath. when the Pharisees found out, they railed on Jesus because he had broke the Sabbath.
who established the Sabbath for Israel ? God the Father or the Pharisees? why would they care if they were not concerned with the Torah?
now, who took the Torah and added many commands to it? the Pharisees.
this is why Christ told them " you sit in Moses's seat ". " you have the Law. yet none of you keep it".
they had PERVERTED the Mosaic Law into something that God never intended. thus the commandments of men.
good gravy man, can you not understand this?
slander
yes, call it what it is.
Proverbs 10: 18. He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
so Paul is equating corrupting God's Law with being circumcised according to God's Law?
"no-brainer" indeed, lol
why did Paul say this in the context that he said it, how is it congruous to all the other things he lists here as congruous list items, and why did God inspire the word "Law" here if God didn't mean for the word "Law" to be here?
I tried to correct the premise. which would have shed new light on the question, and would have started a different conversation based on biblical truth, instead of a false premise. In this way I thought to share, what I believe to be, Biblical truth regarding the "LAW" of the Pharisees. I may have been wasting my time, but we never know who is reading along so I chose to try and explain why I disagree with the Mainstream Christian teaching that the Pharisees were trying to "Earn" Salvation by following God's Laws, and not their own as Jesus said, which is the foundation of the question in the first place. IMO.
Studyman,
I don't think anyone here is sticking their fingers in their ears.
Sometimes there are just honest disagreements.
A great way to hash it out is through calm, rational discussion, free from personal attacks.
the premise is really simple and it is not flawed.
the premise is that when the Bible says "the Law" it means "the Law" and that Philippians 3:4 literally means what Philippians 3:4 literally says.
i'm pretty sure that some pretty false doctrine has gotten a hold of you, and that Philippians 3:1-11 blows it up. so i'm like, use the hornet spray on the hornet nest. yeah, they buzz around alot and they're not at all pleased about it. in their tiny hornet voices am sure they're cursing me. but i gotta protect my family, and these wasps can't keep their home on my porch. ain't skeered; it's a 15' spray and i'm plenty safe, 'for you have died, and your life is hid in Christ'
if I recall correctly, you claimed,
several times,
that you had answered the question,
(not a revised form of the question)
thus implying that the question is answerable, and further implying that the question did not contain a faulty premise.
more slander...
answer the question, please:
No, God didn't screw up. He chose those exact words so we would know what Law he followed. Of course, one must first let the Christ teach us as to what Law the Pharisees taught. He said they taught "The Commandments (Laws) of men, not God.
The entire Bible agrees. I have no reason to doubt Jesus, or Paul, when he specifies what Law he adhered to "Blameless.
I do believe it and have posted many, many times how I come to my conclusion, which you act as if Didn't, refusing to even comment on the Word's of Christ, or Paul, which shed light on what "LAW" the Pharisees followed.
Jesus said they didn't follow God's Laws. Why don't you believe Him?
Paul's history, his religious practices, the religion of the Pharisees that he adhered to is all over the Bible. I don't know why you can't accept them.
The Pharisees were very evil. Paul was more evil than most in the religious traditions of his fathers. They murdered innocent people for simply believing the truth. "As touching the Law, a Pharisee".
The meaning of the scripture is completely changed depending on what you preach the "Law" of the Pharisee was.
In my understanding, your version would imply that before Paul's conversion he was an obedient servant of God like Zechariahs. Walking in all the Commandments of God blameless. Then after his conversion, he rejected God's Laws and followed a different God.
But to believe this I must reject everything Paul, Jesus, and the Prophets, and Stephen said or him and the Pharisees.
If I believe Jesus, then I understand that Paul, before his conversion, followed the "Law" of the Pharisees, killed innocent people, rejected the "Letter of the Law" by placing burdens on the backs of people, and teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men, not God.
You have not showed me anything from scripture as to how I am mistaken in this belief.
for reference here is the question I've been referring to:
**************
Philippians 3:1-11
is this a list of things that damn the flesh or a list of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) ?
*************
it looks like a perfectly valid question to me. I can't see any faulty premise.
**************
Philippians 3:1-11
is this a list of things that damn the flesh or a list of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) ?
*************
it looks like a perfectly valid question to me. I can't see any faulty premise.
=gb9;3585197]
The Catholic Church also base their doctrines on the Torah. I would say the "serpent" also based it's deception of Eve on the Word's of God. Not sure what your point here is.
He broke their Sabbath, not God's. There is nothing in the Scriptures that forbids a man from helping a Brother in need on His Sabbath. This was a "commandments of man", a "Law of the Pharisees", not from God.
Why did the serpent use God's Word to deceive Eve? Was it because it cared about the Word's of God?
They didn't only "ADD" to it, they reject much of it as well. To the point that they corrupted it. This is true G9.
Well now G9, let's not omit scriptures here. "3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
It is true they said they followed God's Laws, but Jesus clearly points out they didn't. Zechariahs and the Wise men did, and they knew Jesus when He came. But the Pharisees, including Paul, did not. I don't think these truths ended in Philippians 3.
I do understand G9. I asked you a little while ago to share with me the error of my understanding. I know my belief collides with modern religious doctrines, but how does my belief go against the scriptures?
The Catholic Church also base their doctrines on the Torah. I would say the "serpent" also based it's deception of Eve on the Word's of God. Not sure what your point here is.
He broke their Sabbath, not God's. There is nothing in the Scriptures that forbids a man from helping a Brother in need on His Sabbath. This was a "commandments of man", a "Law of the Pharisees", not from God.
Why did the serpent use God's Word to deceive Eve? Was it because it cared about the Word's of God?
They didn't only "ADD" to it, they reject much of it as well. To the point that they corrupted it. This is true G9.
Well now G9, let's not omit scriptures here. "3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
It is true they said they followed God's Laws, but Jesus clearly points out they didn't. Zechariahs and the Wise men did, and they knew Jesus when He came. But the Pharisees, including Paul, did not. I don't think these truths ended in Philippians 3.
I do understand G9. I asked you a little while ago to share with me the error of my understanding. I know my belief collides with modern religious doctrines, but how does my belief go against the scriptures?
the serpent and Eve is a good example. the serpent told Eve " did not God say not to eat of this tree ", which he did. Eve responded that God told them not to touch it. which he did not say. probably a good idea, but God did not say it.
so Eve " added " a Command that God did not say. this is what the Pharisees did. took the Torah, and added their own laws on top of it, and called them equal to Torah.
remember, this happed over a long ( most scholars say 400 or so years , not that you would care about history ), period of time. the Pharisees did not just come riding into town and take over in a week.
=posthuman;3585203]
I can only go by what the Scriptures say.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Concision here means "Circumcision" which is referring to the Church he belonged to before his conversion.
Paul has also answered your question regarding "circumcision" in earlier letters.
Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
This is after his conversion, yes? How is he the Circumcision now. By being a "Law Breaker"?
He specifically said; "As touching the Law, a Pharisee". What does the entire Bible tell us about the "Law" of the Pharisee. I have asked this question over and over and you refuse to answer. Why??
I can only go by what the Scriptures say.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Concision here means "Circumcision" which is referring to the Church he belonged to before his conversion.
Paul has also answered your question regarding "circumcision" in earlier letters.
Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
This is after his conversion, yes? How is he the Circumcision now. By being a "Law Breaker"?
He specifically said; "As touching the Law, a Pharisee". What does the entire Bible tell us about the "Law" of the Pharisee. I have asked this question over and over and you refuse to answer. Why??
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