Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
I believe John 3:16 with all my heart. But I also believe that someone who truly believes will be the leader of those that do good works for the love of God and mankind. Belief and good works are inseparable. One follows the other in all cases, without losing focus on the cross.
ahhhh

yes

good works out of love for their Father


not to earn, keep or maintain

children made new by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.... saved already apart from works (including the cerimony of water baptism)

UNTO good works
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
The problem is that several gospel preaching denominations use sprinkling and pouring. Presbyterian PCA and Reformed Church in America for example. They have doctrinal statements backing this up. Therefore it is an issue that we are to agree to disagree.
Then we agree to disagree, and you are still my brother in Christ.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
ahhhh

yes

good works out of love for their Father


not to earn, keep or maintain

children made new by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.... saved already apart from works (including the cerimony of water baptism)

UNTO good works
Good, we are getting closer.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
ahhhh

yes

good works out of love for their Father


not to earn, keep or maintain

children made new by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.... saved already apart from works (including the cerimony of water baptism)

UNTO good works
not to earn keep or maintain salvation*
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I just happen to believe that born of water = baptism by full immersion in water.

I also believe that born of the Spirit = a full immersion of the HS in us.

I believe we need both to be saved, not one or the other.

You do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. You believe that the one baptism that is necessary is the baptism of the HS that brings us into the one body of Christ.

I have been baptized of the HS, fully immersed by his Spirit. So according to you, I am saved. If I think baptism of water is important too, what is that to you, since I have already been saved by the immersion of the HS? Why lecture me on procedure or doctrine? I have done just like what you have done. I have been baptized by one Spirit into one body.

Have you not been baptized by full immersion in water also?

Born of water is defined in the previous verse, AND remember it was a letter and the verses were not added until [FONT=Bitter, Georgia, Times New Roman, sans-serif]in 1551, Robert Estienne (a.k.a. Stephanus) added verse divisions to his fourth edition of the Greek New Testament.[/FONT] Therefore the the SUBJECT IN BOTH OF THE VERSES IS A COMPARISON OF NATURAL BIRTH TO SPIRITUAL BIRTH.

John 3:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There you go again, ROBBING GOD OF THE GLORY FOR HIS FREE GIFT AGAIN. It is willfully SINNING to want part of the GLORY to go TO YOU, while CLIMBING into the Baptistery. Until you can come to an END OF SELF, you will not realize what you are DOING.


Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done,
but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
walls of text, telling us how to work for salvation. yawn.
Yep yet lecturing us on that we aren't working yet he himself "slacks off" so much typing all these ridiculously long wall texts.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
You wont see me boast of anything. Again, i boast in christ.

Twice paul said not f works lest anyone should boast, the word boast and work put together should scare you, the fact it does not should scare anyone listening to you
Let's not get too serious about not boasting,we all boast about ourselves eventually but the difference in being in Christ is that we boast of Jesus "more".
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Let's not get too serious about not boasting,we all boast about ourselves eventually but the difference in being in Christ is that we boast of Jesus "more".
Take for example my signatures lol,but I can type a whole huge page concerning Jesus!
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Take for example my signatures lol,but I can type a whole huge page concerning Jesus!
Let's see what did Jesus do?
He chose and called many disciples and followers.
He rescued and helped his disciples when they could not hold strong to their faith.
He rebuked and retorted satan when he decided to become a hungred and allow satan to "try" to tempt him.
He resurrected and healed people physically and even one man,Lazarus whom was according to perception "dead for 4 days".
He cast out devils even a whole hoard called legion out of one man.
He fed multitudes of people out of caring with food as little as bread and fish that he blessed.
He rebuked and corrected multitudes and even those who thought themselves to be doing "correctly" and having power and authority but only according to man.
He foretold what certain disciples would do against him.
He died for the sins of man on the cross though he did not commit them.
He defeated the devil in his own domain.
He got the keys of hell from satan.
He resurrected "entirely" in 3 days.
He ascended to heaven so that the comforter, the Holy spirit, would be able come unto to his disciples and us as well for the purpose of comforting them and us as we endure until his return and to teach us Jesus's words and give us understanding when reading God's word.
He gave us a true way to salvation,that noone can discredit in "good conscience".
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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Do you have a discussion with your Sunday School class that if after a while, you find that the good works that you were saved unto, is not being done, or is such a burden that you feel uncomfortable, so that maybe you were never really saved in the first place. Is that part of the discussion.

Is the idea that we were created in Christ Jesus to do good works, but everytime a good works situation came about you found an excuse to go to the movies or go out with other friends, so that you missed the opportunity to do good works is a sign that you may have never been saved in the first place.

I really hate to break a bubble of enthusiasm, but I see in the Christian church a going away from good works, primarily because people in Sunday School are taught that good works is not necessary, so it's OK to not even come to church, since that is a good work and became unnecessary when the law of Moses was fulfilled and the day of grace took its place.

You want to help these people so much to make it easy and cozy to come to Christ that you are not telling them the other side of the coin, and therefore I believe it will be to their detriment until they hear the full story of eternal life.
Hypothetical stories are sometimes useful but they are not verifiable because it is a fictitious story, so the answer to your question is no we did not have the discussion you suggested. You do however have a very fruitful imagination yes.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
1. Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
2. Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
3. Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
4. Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)
Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)
It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of
obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working
TOGETHER.(#4)
2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As
you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.
THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT
AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the
Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)
John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”
THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND
REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S
WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND
BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE
SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS
BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.
1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets,
third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help
others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I
preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call
people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.
Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my
presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR
SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as
slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN,
WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will
praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE
GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be
evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS
OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and
in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the
FULLNESS of Christ.
Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality,
he will give eternal life.
Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a
harvest if we do not give up.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD
WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be
generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm
foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and,
once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY
HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I
do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There
is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”
Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been
faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR
MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’
WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your
own selves.
Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the
law shall be justified.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His
commandments are not grievous.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the
measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.
THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS
DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).
Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whom I have compassion.”
1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the
day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.
Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF
JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted,
and by your words you will be condemned.”
John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness
and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness,
because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in
regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands
condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing
up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be
revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by
persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for
those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and
anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile.
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your
brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one
may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ
was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time,
NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.
1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with
us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is
hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.
John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes
from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for
himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is
nothing false about him.
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit
without limit.
John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you
do not belong to God.”
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Born of water is defined in the previous verse, AND remember it was a letter and the verses were not added until in 1551, Robert Estienne (a.k.a. Stephanus) added verse divisions to his fourth edition of the Greek New Testament. Therefore the the SUBJECT IN BOTH OF THE VERSES IS A COMPARISON OF NATURAL BIRTH TO SPIRITUAL BIRTH.

John 3:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There you go again, ROBBING GOD OF THE GLORY FOR HIS FREE GIFT AGAIN. It is willfully SINNING to want part of the GLORY to go TO YOU, while CLIMBING into the Baptistery. Until you can come to an END OF SELF, you will not realize what you are DOING.


Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done,
but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
I was reading some of the early church fathers and was surprised to find a lot of the early church did see this particular Scripture as water baptism. Not that they are correct, but it surprised me. Also because of false converts they created “penances” so that only genuine believers would follow them. Because of widespread persecution a lot of people who confessed to follow Jesus ended up folding under severe persecution, that’s one of the reasons church went in the direction it did. They wanted to ensure people genuinely believed so they added works to it. As an example Tertullian writes of one lady who bit her tongue off in torture so she wouldn’t endanger any other believers lest she lose the ability to withstand torture and deny Jesus. Reading some of their letters was quite eye opening.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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The author of The Gospel of Luke and The Book of Acts remains anonymous. Dr. Luke is believed to be the person who penned Acts and Luke, Apostle Paul's companion on his 1st missionary Journey to Rome for a retrial is, Dr. Luke, (see below statement).

Many biblical Scholar's believe that Dr. Luke wished to remain anonymous on Paul's Journey because he wanted to give Jesus and the Holy Spirit all Praise and take the focus away from himself.

His work, as Paul's companion, was to record Paul's Missionary Journey in the book of Acts. My theory is Dr. Luke wanted to remain humble and stay away from the lime light and boasting of his work, my opinion only.

Dr. Luke is a sterling example of, saved by grace through faith and Not By Works. (Ephesians 2:8).

Quote:
"Biblical scholar's tell us that Dr Luke does not use his proper name in this text, but we can be sure from the narration of this passage that he was on-board ship with Paul because
he refers to himself by using, first person, plural pronouns; - "it was decided that we should sail for Italy." "we put out to sea accompanied by Aristarchus of Thessalonica." "The centurion found an Alexandrian ship and he put us aboard it."Acts27:1,2,6. Paul knew it was God's will that the Gospel should go to Rome."

God bless!
 
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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
A WORTHY SERVANT

“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"

Matthew 10:37-39 “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who
DOES NOT take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.​ Whoever finds his life will lose
it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

DO YOU LOVE JESUS?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we WALK in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK in love.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should WALK in them.

1 John 2:2-6 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling
you have received.

Philippians 1:27-28 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the
gospel of Christ​. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I
will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel
without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they
will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

Colossians 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and
may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge
of God,

Thessalonians 2:12 encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God,
who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Thessalonians 1:5-6,8,11 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result
you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is
just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you HE WILL PUNISH those who do
not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. With this in mind,
we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you WORTHY OF HIS CALLING, and
that by HIS POWER he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted
by your faith.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can
encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Revelation 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will
walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY.

ARE YOU “WORTHY” OF SALVATION BY CLAIMING TO HAVE A FAITH “ALONE”? ONE
THAT IS VOID OF WORKS OR WHICH IS A “DEAD FAITH” ACCDG. TO JAMES.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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The notion that people who do not, "boast of their works" is because they believe works are not necessary so they just float along doing nothing. What an absurd way of reasoning, to say after we are saved its all done.

Just read a few books like A Chance to Die; The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael: Written by; Elizabeth Elliot an amazing true life legacy. She saved an untold number of young girls from a life of forced prostitution.

True Christian's have many many works and the account of their works are written down everywhere in the public domain, but they do not boast of their works.

God bless!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I was reading some of the early church fathers and was surprised to find a lot of the early church did see this particular Scripture as water baptism. Not that they are correct, but it surprised me. Also because of false converts they created “penances” so that only genuine believers would follow them. Because of widespread persecution a lot of people who confessed to follow Jesus ended up folding under severe persecution, that’s one of the reasons church went in the direction it did. They wanted to ensure people genuinely believed so they added works to it. As an example Tertullian writes of one lady who bit her tongue off in torture so she wouldn’t endanger any other believers lest she lose the ability to withstand torture and deny Jesus. Reading some of their letters was quite eye opening.

Yeah, I know personally, I was raised Lutheran. AFTER HE SAVED ME FROM MYSELF. I grew Hungrier and Hungrier for GOOD Bible Teaching, and therefore, I eventually HAD TO find a Bible Teaching Church. The More I think about it, I am convinced that wanting to GRAB some of the Glory from GOD, for our SALVATION; just has to be part of the SIN NATURE. I think that is because then they do not need to think about how utterly sinful we have been; and start to focus on HOW GOOD I THINK I HAVE BEEN, ignoring how bad I have been. THEN pride sets in, and like it says, "Pride goes before Destruction."


Proverbs 16:18-20 (NJB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Better be humble with the poor than share the booty with the proud.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Whoever listens closely to the word finds happiness; whoever trusts Yahweh is blessed.


I often wonder why they NEVER THINK that these verses apply to them:


Romans 7:14-25 (GWT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I know that God's standards are spiritual, but I have a corrupt nature, sold as a slave to sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now, when I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it. Sin that lives in me is doing it.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I've discovered this truth: Evil is present with me even when I want to do what God's standards say is good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] I take pleasure in God's standards in my inner being.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] However, I see a different standard {at work} throughout my body. It is at war with the standards my mind sets and tries to take me captive to sin's standards which still exist throughout my body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] What a miserable person I am! Who will rescue me from my dying body?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God that our Lord Jesus Christ rescues me! So I am obedient to God's standards with my mind, but I am obedient to sin's standards with my corrupt nature.


Do they EVER have a broken and contrite HEART?


Psalm 51:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Yeah, I know personally, I was raised Lutheran. AFTER HE SAVED ME FROM MYSELF. I grew Hungrier and Hungrier for GOOD Bible Teaching, and therefore, I eventually HAD TO find a Bible Teaching Church. The More I think about it, I am convinced that wanting to GRAB some of the Glory from GOD, for our SALVATION; just has to be part of the SIN NATURE. I think that is because then they do not need to think about how utterly sinful we have been; and start to focus on HOW GOOD I THINK I HAVE BEEN, ignoring how bad I have been. THEN pride sets in, and like it says, "Pride goes before Destruction."


Proverbs 16:18-20 (NJB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Better be humble with the poor than share the booty with the proud.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Whoever listens closely to the word finds happiness; whoever trusts Yahweh is blessed.


I often wonder why they NEVER THINK that these verses apply to them:


Romans 7:14-25 (GWT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I know that God's standards are spiritual, but I have a corrupt nature, sold as a slave to sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now, when I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it. Sin that lives in me is doing it.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I've discovered this truth: Evil is present with me even when I want to do what God's standards say is good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] I take pleasure in God's standards in my inner being.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] However, I see a different standard {at work} throughout my body. It is at war with the standards my mind sets and tries to take me captive to sin's standards which still exist throughout my body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] What a miserable person I am! Who will rescue me from my dying body?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God that our Lord Jesus Christ rescues me! So I am obedient to God's standards with my mind, but I am obedient to sin's standards with my corrupt nature.


Do they EVER have a broken and contrite HEART?


Psalm 51:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Excellent post VCO, and yes pride does come before a fall.
 

Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. But you say, “How have we wearied him?” By saying, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delights in them.” Or by asking, “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
 

Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.