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Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?
- Thread starter Budman
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eternally-gratefull
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i will wait, make sure he says clearly, I am hypergrace!
And can you also anwer why you excuse your own sin?
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Ralph-
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I will you show you that what I said he said is exactly what he said. That is what I will show you.
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Ralph-
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eternally-gratefull
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eternally-gratefull
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Ralph-
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Ralph-
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No.
You lose salvation when you return to unbelief and God turns you over to that decision.
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eternally-gratefull
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No you don’t, the discussion is that hypergrace people believe it, you used him as an example, your bound to prove he follows hypergrace, or you have done a big no no, by using false pretense to prove your point.
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eternally-gratefull
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then your excusing your sin just as much as you claim all grace believers do, the only difference is as i see it, you go begging god telling him your sorry (repent) where as we go to God as a loving father (not a spirit of fear) and confess our sins to him,
yet you say we Hypergrace or grace believers who all teach this) we excuse our sins.
So like i said, you excuse your own sin using your own guidelines of what it means to excuse sin
That's the issue., I'm not mixing the 2 up. They are one in the same. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ and we live by grace through faith in Christ. Even if we have stupid thinking later because we have not yet "put off" our old manner of life., that doesn't change the fact a transaction with Jesus took place and we got born again. As JGIG posted, Jesus "radified" this new covenant. Sealed it up. (how do you spell radify)
I've read the posts here and see the disagreement and have "liked" posts on both sides. Both sides have good things to say. I seriously don't get why you guys are in such a tizzy with each other. If some here don't believe in eternal security and if some do is it really something to argue about?
I now know and enjoy the gift of being secure and it was something I had to grow into. (Trust) I'm not really sure how anyone can feel secure in their own ability to always think well and do well or think they have a sincerity that is honored by God. Seriously., the ONLY One God honors is Jesus and those who believe and Have faith in Him.
Often times a human being can be waaay over in left field totally missing the mark while all the while INSISTING they are totally ON the mark. Sometimes we can be sooo sincere it can take a looong time to get into right thinking and away from our stinking thinking. Other times people are so sincere in their own ideas and thoughts and teachings some can and have died for what they believe and it's 100% wrong.
For myself I know there is NO WAY I could save myself and then KEEP myself saved. It took Jesus to make me born again. When we accepted Jesus as Savior, we went from death unto life. He did that transformation and the Holy Spirit came in to our heart and we have this new life in Christ. The Holy Spirit becomes the Comforter., Guide., Teacher., Living Water.
We who have Jesus are given a new life IN Him... we have passed from death over to life.... Transaction taken place.
Without Jesus., life IS a "PRECARIOUS" situation ...dangerously lacking in stability or security...subject to change., based on unproved or uncertain premises... Archaic..Dependent on the will or favor of another ...YIKE YIKES YIKES YIKES YIKES.
That is what we are without Jesus. But the GOOD NEWS IS we always have Jesus now because we ARE one of His. Our souls are not left in a "precarious" situation any more.
Married people who don't relate to each other miss out on the blessings of what marriage was meant to be. Children who run from parents miss out on the blessings of having parents and parents miss out on the blessings children are supposed to be.
But both those relationships are flawed by human weaknesses that are subject to change. Those relationships are "PRECARIOUS" But our relationship with God is not subject to change. Even if we "feel" the relationship has changed ... it's because of Jesus that it hasn't and can't.
When I finally grasped that about Jesus being our righteousness., my relationship with God took on new meaning and faith began to grow into some maturity. Looking away from self and to Jesus always brings security because He is the sure foundation everything else is built on.
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UnderGrace
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UnderGrace
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I do think eternal assurance is the heart of the gospel so yes something to stand firm on.
"ratify"....hehe...glad to be of service.
OH WOW no wonder I couldn't find it in the dictionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you UnderGrace.
I do think eternal assurance is the heart of the gospel so yes something to stand firm on.
I agree with you UnderGrace and security in Christ is what I've also learned to stand firm on and was totally weak and unproductive without that wonderful amazing security.
But trust is something we learn as we go. I see many things that Christians say who do not believe in eternal security to be RIGHT on but in other areas they are off. But so are those who believe in eternal security. Those believers also get off on tangents too. We each have our human weaknesses. We can all get petty and silly and argue about things that only the Holy Spirit can reveal. I heard a preacher once discuss this issue.
He said it's like arguing with a young child about how he should have a grown beard by now and condemning him for not having a long beard yet. That's how we are with other Christians.
"WHERE'S YOUR BEARD!!!!??? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!!??? ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?? WHERE'S YOUR BEARD?!!
A person can argue all they want from day to night but it will not form inside the other a grown up mature beard.
And in all seriousness., I don't see how anyone can live joyfully and peacefully when they are in a "precarious" situation.
Don't you just love words!!! Since losing my spell check., I've had to use the dictionary more.
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Ralph-
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Me to. I learned that security in Christ comes through your faith and trust in him. The person who is trusting in Christ for justification is absolutely secure in Christ.
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Ralph-
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That's right. You don't lose being born again. You lose closeness to God. There is a difference between being saved and enjoying God in your salvation, just like there's a difference between people who are married, and people who are married and enjoy their spouse in their marriage.
I agree, until it crosses the line into Hypergrace.
I don't know anyone who does or who even makes that argument.
Then you agree with what I've been saying. By believing and having faith in Jesus we rest in the security of Jesus' perfect and effectual ministry that makes us secure forever. That's why we have to keep believing and having faith--that's how you access the security of salvation in Christ.
I've only known of one or two people in the church in all my years of being saved who thought they keep themselves saved. This is not what is being argued by people who do not believe in once saved always saved, but that is how it is being heard. Even when you explain it to them.
Too bad most Christians choose to live in death after being born again. They are saved but they do not live for God so they are not able to enjoy the manifestation of his blessings. The blessings of God in your saved life are conditioned on your faithful obedience. Salvation itself is not conditioned on obedience. The blessings of God within salvation are.
That's how it is with God.
The Prodigal Son is a favorite passage of scripture in the once saved always saved crowd. From that story we see that you can not enjoy the blessings of your relationship with the Father if you are disobedient to him in sinful living.
That's right. You'll live in death if you do not live for Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit. The joy of salvation is dependent upon you walking in the Spirit. Salvation itself is not (unless the reason you are doing that is a return to unbelief). The joy,peace, and blessedness within salvation is. How can you have joy and peace if you don't walk in them? You can't, of course.
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Ralph-
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I said I don't excuse my sin.
Hypergrace doctrine justifies habitual sin in the name of grace. It says there is nothing grace can not cover, even going back to unbelief. Read the quote I posted.
John, on the other hand, says the person who is living in the habit and practice of sin is not saved. Hypergrace vehemently disagrees with that, even though John's words are the plain words of scripture.
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Ralph-
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That's exactly what I've been saying.
You can't have the joy and peace of God if you are living outside of God in faithless disobedience.
Ralph i was using those verses as examples of you doing the same stuff, how about this.
That context, Him turning His face doesn't apply to the new covenant believer because He sees us through the righteous blood of Christ... Read your bible...