R
Loss of salvation.
- Thread starter BillG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Weak faith.
Weak faith that gives in easy when trials and tribulations come (i.e. second type of soil in the Parable of the Sower).
No what the verse is saying...."And if by grace, then is it no more of works..." You have one or the other, By Grace of God or By the Works of Man, Your choice of course.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Right, he will not lose any that belong to him because of impurity, incompetence, or sloth like the old covenant priesthood. But He will give them up if they deny/disown him.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Your thinking is limited.
Does a free pass to the movies for life stop being for life just because you don't possess it anymore?
R
Ralph-
Guest
Jesus himself said the 2nd type of soil believed.
If the seed had no root it would not spring up at all. That is the first type of soil.
Jesus explains how the seed in the 2nd type of soil had no firm, or deep root. And because of that it withered quickly under the heat of trials and temptations.
I could agree if you said little faith. Weak faith! No such thing. Where does faith come from—God. He doesn't hand out weak faith.
You are spot on when you said salvation is apart from works. But God will bring us separate rewards for our works.
Matt. 25:28, 29 "Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath."
Matt. 25:21 "His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
Mark 9:41 "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."
Last edited:
R
Ralph-
Guest
He will undoubtedly try. But do all come back? Apparently not since we are told what will happen if they don't.
I don't think Paul knew the Galatians would definitely come back based on the extent to which he explained to them in detail what the outcome of their decision to deny Christ would be.
R
Ralph-
Guest
You only have to be good to remain saved insofar as your goodness is the expression of your continuing trust in Christ.
You forfeit salvation because of unbelief, not because of a failure in works in and of themselves.
We must remember, the seed is God's word—not necessarily salvation. The word can take hold or not.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Well, of course I sound like one to you. For some reason, now when you say 'believing' in the church it is instantly heard as 'works'. And so everything I say gets filtered through one's predetermined doctrine that says if you have to do anything, including believing, to be saved and stay saved that is you working to try to be saved. But Paul never said believing is a work of the works gospel that can not save. In fact, he said believing is the very thing you HAVE to do to be justified/saved.
You can lose it now because salvation is conditioned on believing (trusting), not 'nothing at all' as so many Christians are being taught now. But surely, what justification/salvation is not conditioned on is works of the law.
"So, unlike the old covenant, it's okay to worship false gods in this New Covenant because you'll still be saved because God no longer leaves and forsakes his people for doing that like he did in the old covenant? That means I can confess Allah and denounce Christ and receive the mark of the beast instead of my head being chopped off because I'll still be saved nonetheless?" Why should a saved man do such junk?Please repent of your sarcasm. A saved man living in sin can never be truly happy.
I'm not being facetious.
If it's true that I can not lose my salvation even if I deny Christ and worship false gods (like when the mark of the beast arrives) then I'm Hypergrace 'once saved always saved'.
But if I'm not Hypergrace 'once saved always saved' but rather traditional 'once saved always saved' then I believe that you can't deny Christ to begin with, or else you are not saved in the first place. Can you see that? So you can see it is still not allowed to deny Christ and worship idols in this New Covenant either.
Actually, it makes your point impossible. Look at it carefully.
Last edited by a moderator:
R
Ralph-
Guest
I think I've been careful to keep the 'seed' the 'word of God' in what I'm saying.We must remember, the seed is God's word—not necessarily salvation. The word can take hold or not.
The point is, salvation is where the word is retained and held fast-1 Corinthians 15:2.
R
Ralph-
Guest
When I say 'weak faith', I mean 'weak believing'.
Faith is a noun. It's the ability to know something you can't see is true. It's a conviction.
Believing (trusting) is a verb. It's what you do in response to the ability to know something is true (faith, see above) that God has given you. He gave you the power of faith so you can then place your trust in Christ and be justified and saved.
There are works of sacrifice and service that the believer has, and there are works of obedience.You are spot on when you said salvation is apart from works. But God will bring us separate rewards for our works.
Matt. 25:28, 29 "Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath."
Matt. 25:21 "His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
Mark 9:41 "For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."
Obedience is better than sacrifice.
This is best illustrated in how people in the church will be diligent to serve in the church in various works of service and sacrifice, but in their personal lives they have little to no obedience to the commands of God on how to live and how to treat people. 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is about works of service performed in the building and field of God's people, his temple. Not about a person's individual acts of obedience and how they live their personal lives.
Well then, what about this?
Gal. 5:18-26 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.