Not By Works
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I just completed a post in response to you and as I clicked post the site died. Here I go again. LOL
The issue is much bigger than that.
Gary North wrote a book Crossed Fingers that documented the secular take over in 1932 the denomination of Presbyterian USA. All 7 of the big protestant denominations have also been taken over. There are sub denominations under each that still teach the gospel. Presbyterian PCA and Missouri Synod Lutheran for example. I talked to a man after an evening invitational service with refreshments afterward. He went to a Lutheran church and heard the gospel for the first time that evening. Hierarchy is a minor matter beside this. A little less than half of the population of the US go to church. This means that only a splinter of them are hearing the gospel message. This is the huge issue. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear the gospel message.
The issue is much bigger than that.
Gary North wrote a book Crossed Fingers that documented the secular take over in 1932 the denomination of Presbyterian USA. All 7 of the big protestant denominations have also been taken over. There are sub denominations under each that still teach the gospel. Presbyterian PCA and Missouri Synod Lutheran for example. I talked to a man after an evening invitational service with refreshments afterward. He went to a Lutheran church and heard the gospel for the first time that evening. Hierarchy is a minor matter beside this. A little less than half of the population of the US go to church. This means that only a splinter of them are hearing the gospel message. This is the huge issue. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear the gospel message.
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Your precious KJV is not without errors, which is common among PARAPHASED Bibles, and far less when the TRANSLATION TEAM takes the time to go back to the Original Language Manuscripts. Reread #62896
That is the problem when you use the KJV, it is not infallible as others may think. BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL 1611 Translators, admitted in their PREFACE, "Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . ." That is the definition of a paraphrase, and NOT A TRANSLATION THAT WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE MANUSCRIPTS TO ACTUALLY TRANSLATE WHAT IT SAID, as OTHERS TRANSLATIONS DID.
Preface to the King James Version 1611, Part 1 of 10
The is yet another excerpt from the 1611 Origninal PREFACE of the KJV;
“But the difference that appeareth between our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that we are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves be without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they be fit men to throw stones at us: “
And NOW you are throwing stones at the Newer Versions.
I have Eleven other Versions of the Bible that CORRECTLY interpreted that verse as WILL KEEP or Will Obey.
Even the NKJV, admits that WILL KEEP is a possible other translation. And you trust a PARAPHRASE, from older English Bibles with KNOWN ERRORS, more than you do where the TRANSLATION TEAMS, took the time to actually Translate from the original languages manuscripts?
That is the problem when you use the KJV, it is not infallible as others may think. BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL 1611 Translators, admitted in their PREFACE, "Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . ." That is the definition of a paraphrase, and NOT A TRANSLATION THAT WENT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE MANUSCRIPTS TO ACTUALLY TRANSLATE WHAT IT SAID, as OTHERS TRANSLATIONS DID.
Preface to the King James Version 1611, Part 1 of 10
The is yet another excerpt from the 1611 Origninal PREFACE of the KJV;
“But the difference that appeareth between our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that we are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves be without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they be fit men to throw stones at us: “
And NOW you are throwing stones at the Newer Versions.
I have Eleven other Versions of the Bible that CORRECTLY interpreted that verse as WILL KEEP or Will Obey.
Even the NKJV, admits that WILL KEEP is a possible other translation. And you trust a PARAPHRASE, from older English Bibles with KNOWN ERRORS, more than you do where the TRANSLATION TEAMS, took the time to actually Translate from the original languages manuscripts?
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I hope you are not telling me that God is not great enough to give us an English bible that does not have errors?
Sounds like our paraphrasing KJV is erroneous and maybe that is why we have such a difference in opinion about what it takes to be saved? Do you think that an erroneous bible could be a problem?
Which bible do you think does not have errors, so I can get the true word of God?
Sounds like our paraphrasing KJV is erroneous and maybe that is why we have such a difference in opinion about what it takes to be saved? Do you think that an erroneous bible could be a problem?
Which bible do you think does not have errors, so I can get the true word of God?
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God is the cause of us doing his will. We can't do it without him.
Yes Christians will not do his will and God is not causing to not do his will.
That's the choice we make when we did not.
By the way
What is the law of Christ.
That question you have asked many times.
You asked me, I responded.
You answered with a non answer.
Yes Christians will not do his will and God is not causing to not do his will.
That's the choice we make when we did not.
By the way
What is the law of Christ.
That question you have asked many times.
You asked me, I responded.
You answered with a non answer.
What is the Hebrew Roots movement? -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/Hebrew-roots.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/Hebrew-roots.html
if you see that there is sin in the world do you assume that God is not great enough to give us a world that does not have errors?
consider A[SUP]1[/SUP] = {a[SUB]1[/SUB], a[SUB]2[/SUB], . . . a[SUB]n[/SUB]} such that A[SUP]1[/SUP] ⊂ Ω
where Ω = {all possible translations of the word of God into a human language}
suppose for some k ∈ 1 .. n, a[SUB]k[/SUB] contains error.
does this mean for every translation t[SUB]i[/SUB] ∈ Ω, t[SUB]i[/SUB] also contains error?
even if that were so, would it mean 'God is not great enough' in any sense?
what kind of logic is that? how do you call God 'not great enough' because He doesn't provide you with what you want or expect from Him in your imagination of what 'a perfect universe' would be if you were God instead? ?
that's weird of you IMO.
i keep hearing different forms of this argument, essentially variations on 'if KJV is not 100% perfect then God is evil' and i'm still not buying it. i think it's weird how people can think it's sound.
The problem with the KJV is it was translated in 1611. Languages change over time. Kill in 1611 meant murder. The commandment You shall not murder in KJV is Thou shalt not kill. This meaning is different in the language of today than the 1611 meaning. Modern translations use the word murder. Just one example of the problem with the KJV. Here are sites discussing the issues of the KJV.
KJV Issues
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
King James Version issues
Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute
Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
KJV Issues
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
King James Version issues
Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute
Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
All translations have errors because fallible groups on translators did the work. Only the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Judean Greek are infallible. The reason for the Greek to be Judean Greek is because the Jews always bring Hebrew words and concepts into a language they use. A modern one is Yiddish. It is Judean German.
This is because there are fewer churches all the time preaching the gospel. Here is a wake up message.
https://www.unsealed.org/2017/06/the-divine-message-of-august-eclipse.html
https://www.unsealed.org/2017/06/the-divine-message-of-august-eclipse.html
This is because there are fewer churches all the time preaching the gospel. Here is a wake up message.
https://www.unsealed.org/2017/06/the-divine-message-of-august-eclipse.html
Gee I notice links are working again. Great.
https://www.unsealed.org/2017/06/the-divine-message-of-august-eclipse.html
Gee I notice links are working again. Great.
The Greek Septuagint had multiple errors in it, most of the OLDER English Translations we Septuagint based, so they copied the errors over, and YES one of the goals of the KJV Translation Team WAS to correct those known errors in those 5 older English Translations, AND OBVIOUSLY they missed some. They were not the GOD INSPIRED TRANSLATORS that you and many others, supposed that they were. THEY OPENLY ADMITTED, they Could make errors, and wanted others to come along letter, and if need be CORRECT they errors.
YOU put the KJV, way to high on a pedestal, than the Original Translation Team intended it to be.
By the Way, in that verse, if YE LOVE, is in the Present Tense, NOT LIKE OUR PRESENT TENSE; as it implies a LOVE that WILL NEVER END PERIOD, an ongoing LOVE FOR CHRIST. Therefore "IF YE LOVE ME, you WILL keep my commands", which would make it implied. The WORD KEEP does not have a LITERAL TRANSLATION, because it is in the Aorist Tense, and ENGLISH does not have Aorist Tense VERBS.
YOU put the KJV, way to high on a pedestal, than the Original Translation Team intended it to be.
By the Way, in that verse, if YE LOVE, is in the Present Tense, NOT LIKE OUR PRESENT TENSE; as it implies a LOVE that WILL NEVER END PERIOD, an ongoing LOVE FOR CHRIST. Therefore "IF YE LOVE ME, you WILL keep my commands", which would make it implied. The WORD KEEP does not have a LITERAL TRANSLATION, because it is in the Aorist Tense, and ENGLISH does not have Aorist Tense VERBS.
OR, you have defined everyone who calls himself a Christian, to be one.
That is NOT the truth, because CHRIST emphasized the phony Christians this way:
Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ {NOTICE ALL THE DEEDS THEY DID, Supposedly IN HIS NAME. NO it is NOT how many deeds you do that equals SALVATION, but rather the INNER, PERSONAL, LOVE RELATIONSHIP with THE LORD, meaning MASTER; that counts.}
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
That conclusion, even PAUL would disagree with you on that one:
Galatians 2:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
I have decided to LET you out of the BOX (Ignore List) for a trial period. SO PLAY NICE.
Most evangelicals word in their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, a portion that EMPHASIZES the ONLY INERRANT BIBLE that we can be sure of:
[h=3]1. The Scriptures[/h]We believe in the plenary and verbal inspiration and authority of all sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments as the divinely inspired Word of God and submit to them as the only infallible authority in all matters of faith and practice, the original documents of which are inerrant as to fact and infallible as to truth.
[h=3]1. The Scriptures[/h]We believe in the plenary and verbal inspiration and authority of all sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments as the divinely inspired Word of God and submit to them as the only infallible authority in all matters of faith and practice, the original documents of which are inerrant as to fact and infallible as to truth.
i don't know, it's mysterious to me
He created Jonah, and knows exactly what to do to to bring Jonah to point where He Jonah should point, and to do it in a perfect way. if He changes my desire, if He opens my eyes and i act on what i see, then has He caused me? what does 'forced' mean? against my will? but He renews, and that changes will.
prophecy can't exist without predestination.
i was saying in another thread, where ((i think)) someone is arguing that Saul wasn't saved until water baptism, how God says explicitly that he is "chosen" -- at what point then is Paul/Saul actually 'saved'? when he was chosen? before the foundation of the world!
is there any sense in putting a definite 'time' down as a maker, at all?
the whole free-will/predestination thing: isn't there a logical fallacy of 'excluded middle' in that argument?
i like what you're posting, but it makes me think, and it makes me think, maybe that's not quite right; maybe i shouldn't hit 'like' button haha. yet sometimes i 'like' all kinds of posts sometimes even when i see people thinking and asking good questions even if i don't agree with what i think they are thinking
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