Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

ROFL
Your ignorance is showing about church government. The Catholic church government is a dictatorship. The Presbyterian Church government is a republic. Each church elects representative elders. The church then sends 2 elders and the teaching elder to the next local level up. That body selects representatives to go to the next level up to the ragional body. Then those body's send representatives up to the national level. Depending on the specific denomination these bodies have names like classis and synod. You could have easily learned this by getting a copy on line of the Book of Church Order from the different denominations. The Reformed Church denominations work the same way. I was a deacon and elder in the RCA and Presbyterian PCA denominations. So your ignorant rambling idiocy is just blind hatred for those you disagree with. You end up spouting lies in very obvious ignorance.

This right here proves your theology is a joke...in the Lord's churches the operating, governmental system is a Theocracy not a ROMAN REPUBLIC....and I have studied church history....4 semester hours and your roots can be tied right back to Catholicism regardless of your skewed view of history!

 

[dcontroversal]

With your flawed pretorist theology I reject anything you quote since it is flawed by the non Biblical view you hold. I don't bother reading it because of this!

This is hilarious coming from one who not a week or so past rejected the bible as the rule of faith and prectice while placing emphasis upon some religious creed as the standard by which one judges a man's Christianity.....wow

 

[dcontroversal]

We are not under the law of Moses, but we are under the law of Christ (see Galations 6:1-3)

Can you tell me anything about the law of Christ?

Yeah....it has set me free from the condemnation of the law.....by GRACE THROUGH FAITH WITH NO RELIGIOUS HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!

 

[dcontroversal]

Nobody believes that salvation is gained by works.
Nobody believes that salvation is kept by works.
Nobody believes salvation is earned by works.
Nobody believes salvation can be lost.

But this I will tell you, if you do not do good works, you were never saved in the first place, so good works establishes the fact that you have faith in Jesus Christ. So true faith leads to true and loving good works. Simple. As James says, good works perfects your faith, or what I said, good works establishes that you have true faith.

If you don't have good works and provide fruit fit for the KOG, then it establishes that you were not saved back in the day, when you had a spiritual experience and you thought your were baptized of the HG. Aperson doesn't lose their salvation, they just never had it to start with.

Not only is this a total contradiction of theology, but also false, because many here espouse and push the "nobody" things you say they do not believe....do you even read what you post?

Nobody x 4 and then if you don't have you never were.......wow

 

[benhur]

AND SALVATION IS NOT A REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT.


Romans 5:15-17 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.


Romans 4:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
{That clearly points out that NEVER is SALVATION something you work for.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

How many gifts are represented in these verses?

 

[benhur]

Not only is this a total contradiction of theology, but also false, because many here espouse and push the "nobody" things you say they do not believe....do you even read what you post?

Nobody x 4 and then if you don't have you never were.......wow

I do not espouse salvation by works.
I do not espouse salvation kept good works
I do not espouse salvation earned by works.
I do not espouse salvation lost.

So here it is:
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation is not just good works.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation is established by good works, it does not keep salvation.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation cannot be earned by good works only.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation cannot be lost. Good works just establishes that you have salvation in the first place. You can't lose something that you never had in the first place.

I may say things a little differently per response, but the above is what my theology is all about. Good works is only one aspect to being saved, but it is important, because it establishes if you are saved or not. It really is a good guide for that purpose.

 

[Seohce]

1 Timothy 1:3-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Isaiah 5:20-24 WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have REJECTED the law of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED the word of the Holy One of Israel.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A “LIAR", and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

John 14:23-24 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE. WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHING. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Matthew 19:17-26 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

 

[Seohce]

1 Timothy 1:3-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Isaiah 5:20-24 WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL EVIL GOOD AND GOOD EVIL, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have REJECTED the law of the Lord Almighty and SPURNED the word of the Holy One of Israel.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A “LIAR", and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

John 14:23-24 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE. WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHING. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Matthew 19:17-26 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

 

[VCO]

John/Yahanan 8:12, “Therefore יהושע spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but possess the light of life.”


John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."


John/Yahanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."


Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, {You were SAVED the moment you first BELIEVED.}
you will keep My commands. {After genuine SALVATION, you will be able to LOVE HIM in the form of Obedience, a normal lifestyle change from HAVING BEEN SAVED.}

 

[Seohce]

Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.

Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”

“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)

PAUL’S QUESTION IS:

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

HE ALSO SAID,

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.

Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.

Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.

1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Matthew 10:38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.



John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

 

[Shamah]

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, {You were SAVED the moment you first BELIEVED.}
you will keep My commands. {After genuine SALVATION, you will be able to LOVE HIM in the form of Obedience, a normal lifestyle change from HAVING BEEN SAVED.}

maybe His Law is written in ones heart?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not espouse salvation by works.
I do not espouse salvation kept good works
I do not espouse salvation earned by works.
I do not espouse salvation lost.

So here it is:
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation is not just good works.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation is established by good works, it does not keep salvation.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation cannot be earned by good works only.
Salvation is a combination of belief, trust, faith accompanied by good works. Salvation cannot be lost. Good works just establishes that you have salvation in the first place. You can't lose something that you never had in the first place.

I may say things a little differently per response, but the above is what my theology is all about. Good works is only one aspect to being saved, but it is important, because it establishes if you are saved or not. It really is a good guide for that purpose.

There ya have it folks....a works based salvation.....it is a combination of nothing but faith into the finished work of Christ and the above use and application of COMBINATION AND WORKS places your gospel in the false grouping with no power to save a flea, much less a man......

 

[Magenta]

So funny

Wasn't Ralph the one that she prophesied would come to this forum...I would need to go way back in this thread but I am sure it is there.

Yes, her and Alan. And now after making hundreds and hundreds of posts in this thread since joining last August, Ralph is calling NBW a "haunt for demons" and a "cesspool of demonic activity" and claiming that nothing godly or useful was happening here recently, which co-incidentally seems to align with their departure from this thread.

Oh, I don't know. I wouldn't reject doing that altogether in every situation. (But surely the 'Not By Works' thread is a cesspool of demonic activity that as of a few months ago had nothing godly or useful happening in it. That is a haunt for demons.)

​

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, her and Alan. And now after making hundreds and hundreds of posts in this thread since joining last August, Ralph is calling NBW a "haunt for demons" and a "cesspool of demonic activity" and claiming that nothing godly or useful was happening here until recently, which co-incidentally seems to align with their departure from this thread.

No worries.....ALL who embellish salvation into a faith plus works to gain, keep or top off have a very bad day coming in the future...the "Plenteous in Number" expect to enter based upon their claim of faith and THE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS in the name of JESUS.....THEIR ROOT, SYSTEM OF BELIEF AND GOSPEL are false....they will not be allowed to enter...he can make all the mouthy statements he wants to make....we will see what gospel has power to save.....I will go with the following....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.

and

It pleased God by the foolishess of preaching to save them that believe!

 

[Magenta]

No worries.....ALL who embellish salvation into a faith plus works to gain, keep or top off have a very bad day coming in the future...the "Plenteous in Number" expect to enter based upon their claim of faith and THE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS in the name of JESUS.....THEIR ROOT, SYSTEM OF BELIEF AND GOSPEL are false....they will not be allowed to enter...he can make all the mouthy statements he wants to make....we will see what gospel has power to save.....I will go with the following....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.

and

It pleased God by the foolishess of preaching to save them that believe!

It seems Fralph believes they were the only good going on here

How funny is that? Both peculiar and laughable, I'd say

 

[dcontroversal]

It seems Fralph believes they were the only good going on here

How funny is that? Both peculiar and laughable, I'd say

Exactly, while failing to see that it was their dogma indeed that was a doctrine of demons....!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

There ya have it folks....a works based salvation.....it is a combination of nothing but faith into the finished work of Christ and the above use and application of COMBINATION AND WORKS places your gospel in the false grouping with no power to save a flea, much less a man......

Hi there DC, is there a verse in the Bible stating we have to keep the law for our salvation? No, not even in the OT so why did Israel do it then? They were in a relationship with God. We do not keep the Torah because we want our salvation earned but because we are obedient to the word of God.

God bless brother

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Exactly, while failing to see that it was their dogma indeed that was a doctrine of demons....!

The Bible teaches us we are hot or cold, so if we believe in cheap grace it is also a doctrine of demons....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi there DC, is there a verse in the Bible stating we have to keep the law for our salvation? No, not even in the OT so why did Israel do it then? They were in a relationship with God. We do not keep the Torah because we want our salvation earned but because we are obedient to the word of God.

God bless brother

The law had a purpose.....to condemn all as guilty (Romans 3) God's plan began with establishing the guilt of man before he could give the cure for our fallen sinful condition. Israel never kept the law....none have except Jesus and exactly why his righteousness without the deeds of the law is imputed by faith as an act of grace and as a gift. Even today the law condemns ALL as guilty and no one keeps it....to break one of the least makes one guilty of the whole.....as to Israel...there were punishments afforded under the law for breaking it and even though outwardly one can obey laws to avoid punishment, inwardly they can and are still wicked and sinful.....there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not.....no one good, no not one!

 

[dcontroversal]

The Bible teaches us we are hot or cold, so if we believe in cheap grace it is also a doctrine of demons....!

You just misapplied that bro....read it again...Jesus wished they were HOT OR COLD...cold cannot mean false....and there is no such thing as cheap grace....using coined phraseology by those who actually cheapen grace by embellishing with works or law keeping is tragically sad!

The idea behind us being hot or cold is refreshing....Like a cup of hot coffee or iced tea.....luke warm both are nasty!