Loss of salvation.

[BillG]

This probably won't be a long thread BUT

I would like ask those who believe that we can lose salvation the following.

At what point does one lose their salvation?
What would cause this to happen?
Would you know who has lost it?

 

[Didymous]

This probably won't be a long thread BUT

I would like ask those who believe that we can lose salvation the following.

At what point does one lose their salvation?
What would cause this to happen?
Would you know who has lost it?

What I always wanted to know is this: Where is the pile of dead bodies, since when we're saved we become a new creature in Christ?

 

[Didymous]

And also this: Since God made the law to show us that no man could keep it-save the man Christ Jesus-and since God, as a man, could keep the law perfectly, why are we so foolish as to think He couldn't keep those that are His? Shame on us all as we try to make Him more like us-instead of realizing we need to strive to be more like Him!

 

[UnderGrace]

At the foot of the cross.

What I always wanted to know is this: Where is the pile of dead bodies, since when we're saved we become a new creature in Christ?

 

[UnderGrace]

Easy Peasy...

1) Never
2) Nothing
3) No One to Know

[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8: 38

This probably won't be a long thread BUT

I would like ask those who believe that we can lose salvation the following.

1) At what point does one lose their salvation?
2) What would cause this to happen?
3) Would you know who has lost it?

 

[Cee]

Great questions Bill, my curiosity comes from another direction, if we are truly new creations in Christ, how do we become old creations that already died with Christ? And do we switch back and forth from saved to lost to saved as we confess our sins?

 

[BillG]

Great questions Bill, my curiosity comes from another direction, if we are truly new creations in Christ, how do we become old creations that already died with Christ? And do we switch back and forth from saved to lost to saved as we confess our sins?

Interesting questions indeed.
Which I myself ponder.

But there are people that once lost always lost.

No such thing as the Hoky Coky.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And also this: Since God made the law to show us that no man could keep it-save the man Christ Jesus-and since God, as a man, could keep the law perfectly, why are we so foolish as to think He couldn't keep those that are His? Shame on us all as we try to make Him more like us-instead of realizing we need to strive to be more like Him!

It wasn't a cake walk by any means. Jesus feared death greatly, but not physical death.

[Jesus] in the days of his flesh offered up both prayers and supplications, with loud crying and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard as a result of his reverence. Hebrews 5:7​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Great questions Bill, my curiosity comes from another direction, if we are truly new creations in Christ, how do we become old creations that already died with Christ? And do we switch back and forth from saved to lost to saved as we confess our sins?

Careful. Your first question is getting into gnosticism, i.e., salvation by one's spiritual nature rather than by obedience to the faith.

Regarding your second question, no.

 

[Didymous]

Interesting questions indeed.
Which I myself ponder.

But there are people that once lost always lost.

No such thing as the Hoky Coky.

Holy coky? What in the world is that?

 

[Shamah]

Salvation CAN NOT be lost, however NONE have recieved it yet:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the distress of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 32:31-33, “And Mosheh returned to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! and now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to Mosheh, whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[BillG]

Careful. Your first question is getting into gnosticism, i.e., salvation by one's spiritual nature rather than by obedience to the faith.

Regarding your second question, no.

With regards to your first point I can't Cee getting into or promoting Gnosticism.

 

[BillG]

Holy coky? What in the world is that?

Fallen foul of auto correct.

It's the Hoky Coky dance.

Basically in out in out shake it all about.

It is a song over here

 

[PennEd]

Careful. Your first question is getting into gnosticism, i.e., salvation by one's spiritual nature rather than by obedience to the faith.

Regarding your second question, no.

Salvation by obedience to faith? Are we born again NOW or not? And Isn't it Jesus that saves and makes us born again children of God?

 

[BillG]

Salvation CAN NOT be lost, however NONE have recieved it yet:

Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the distress of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”



1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”



Exodus 32:31-33, “And Mosheh returned to יהוה and said, “Oh, these people have sinned a great sin, and have made for themselves a mighty one of gold! and now, if You would forgive their sin, but if not, please blot me out of Your book which You have written. and יהוה said to Mosheh, whoever has sinned against Me, I blot him out of My book.”


Psalm 69:27-28, "Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!"


Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."


Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”


Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”


Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”


Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

So in affect you are saying we cannot lose salvation because we do not have it until judgement day.

So no assurance of salvation whilst here on earth?

John 6:35-40


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[NoNameMcgee]

◄ John 10:27 ►
New International Version
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

New Living Translation
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

English Standard Version
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Berean Study Bible
My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.

Berean Literal Bible
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

New American Standard Bible
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

King James Bible
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Christian Standard Bible
My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me.

Contemporary English Version
My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me,


_____________

◄ John 10:28 ►
New International Version
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

New Living Translation
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,

English Standard Version
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Berean Study Bible
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

Berean Literal Bible
And I give them eternal life, and never shall they perish to the age, and never will anyone seize them out of My hand.

New American Standard Bible
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

King James Bible
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Christian Standard Bible
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand.

Contemporary English Version
and I give them eternal life, so that they will never be lost. No one can snatch them out of my hand.

_____________

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

_____________



hebrews 10


35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
_____________


john 6


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

___________


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us

 

[BillG]

John 6:47
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[Zmouth]

At what point does one lose their salvation? Lack of faith: Hope seen is not hope

What would cause this to happen? Loss of hope: Faith is the substance of things hoped for

Would you know who has lost it? What do the scriptures say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So in affect you are saying we cannot lose salvation because we do not have it until judgement day.

So no assurance of salvation whilst here on earth?

John 6:35-40


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

[FONT=&quot]1 John 5:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.[/FONT]

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Holy coky? What in the world is that?

Translation into Yankspeak = Hokey Pokey.

Shake it all about.