Not By Works

[BillG]

"God loves us as much as He loves Jesus." To me that say's it all.

When I was 12yrs old I came out from my bedroom to find my Mom bleeding so I stood between my dad and my Mom and said if you lay a hand on here again I'm gonna kill you. He walked away.

Yes I too was rejected by my Church family after going through a divorce. I was a member in good standing for 15yrs. and no one wanted to associate themselves with a divorcee, a pity.

Keep telling your story from the roof tops and God will bless many lives...

I had a similar experience with my step dad and my mum. Will not go into it.

TT, there are people like you and me in the church and outside of it.

Over the last couple of pages you have opened up as shared your experiences.
And your still here.

Praise God.
He has bought you through so much.

Keep telling the story of what God has done for you.
Thank you for listening to mine.

Continue to be like Jesus my friend.
I'm sure you will be.

 

[dcontroversal]

For those who want to know the 613 laws scattered in the Torah. Here they are. They are divided into do's and don'ts. After that they are divided into group groups that pertain to people and places.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

For some reason links can't be clicked on but copy and pasted into the browser. Why has this problem not been resolved???

I like the verses that state the law condems, makes all guilty and point to Christ as the cure........the condemnation of the law has been nailed to the crosss and the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith without the deeds/works of thr law.....I am not under one of those laws...why? I am under grace!

 

[dcontroversal]

The Hebrew Roots movement puts their Hebrew Roots "in front" of their Christianity just the opposite of what God wants from us. We are all, "children of God through faith,"

Either the Law or the Promise, not both: Romans3:28,29

28) There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29) If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God bless!

I hear ya bro........and they are faux.....neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ anf I have no problem saying or using Jesus or Moses

 

[Endoscopy]

Brother....you know full well they must be deceptive in their approach...through and through they attempt to place the men of the bible under the same legalistic rigmarole that the Pharisees used in their day......Romans 3 and 4 are clear....so is the logically deduced conclusion of Paul...Abraham was justified by faith without the deeds/works of the LAW LONG BEFORE HE WAS "WHACKED" or offered Isaac........

Going back to early Genesis they knew about sin. Cain slew Able over Cain's sacrifice not being accepted. The reason for sacrifices was to cleanse the person's sins of the past year. Knowing about sin means they knew the law since sin is transgression of the law!

I Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS). I used that in electronics and software. It works here as well.

 

[TruthTalk]

I had a similar experience with my step dad and my mum. Will not go into it.

TT, there are people like you and me in the church and outside of it.

Over the last couple of pages you have opened up as shared your experiences.
And your still here.

Praise God.
He has bought you through so much.

Keep telling the story of what God has done for you.
Thank you for listening to mine.

Continue to be like Jesus my friend.
I'm sure you will be.

Amen! "No turning back"

 

[Endoscopy]

Amen! "No turning back"

Not me! I keep turning back to the Bible!!
ROFL

 

[BillG]

Amen! "No turning back"

Amen.

One thing we need to remember.

God works good in all things in our lives to conform us to the image of Jesus.

As he does that then he uses us to walk with others who have been through what we have.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi TT

I never knew my dad. Only two nasty memories.
One I still have the consequences of. He went to hit my mum, she ducked and his fist hit my face.
The next being the police breaking down the door and besting him to a pulp.

My mum threw me out when I was 14. Her upbringing was Muslim. Fell pregnant out of wedlock.
She was on the abortion table with me but did not go through with it.
So she spent her life blaming me

So I became a Christian, not long after she threw me out.
I was fostered by a Christian family.
Spent the next 4 years being sexually abused by my foster dad.
At some point the police turn up.
I confided with someone as to what was going on.
When the police turned up my foster mum told me that my foster dad had been imprisoned for sexual child abuse.

So basically if I say yes he is abusing me I have 3 choices.

Go back to the mother who threw me out, go into a home or say no and put up with it.
My foster mum and dad had a young child.

I said no. It was the best of the worst.

Now this makes me very sad but it is true.

I have shared this on this thread a long way back.

Someone basically responded along the lines off "You have suffered nothing compared with X,y,z"

Yes they were right but no love or compassion.

Now imagine I come to you and tell you this whilst I'm struggling with it.

I'm convinced you, DC, Eternally and many others as I was sat in tears and pain oozing would put your arms around me and in doing so would be calling on the name of Jesus for healing and freedom.

So what set me free?

Eventually I had to come before God and seek the truth.
The truth of whom I am in Jesus.
It took a loving beautiful wife who suffered many years of my pain with love, a guy in church who did not know me seek me out.
A guy who cried on my behalf and as a result told me "Its ok to cry to God and be honest with him"
When I did I swore a lot.

Then I started to be set free.
God loves me as much as he loves Jesus. I loved God but it was a perverse love a wrong love.

It was a process. I had to forgive, the Holy Spirit helped me in this, even though for all those years before I would not forgive.

I'm here now, set free, free to love because I'm loved but also to love those who do not love me.

That is why I'm so passionate about not writing people off.
I actually led a ministry in church but stopped it. Sought help but was refused because I was not giving out.

So I stopped going to church for about 15 years.
Not one person sought me out during that time.
I was written off.

Brothers and Sisters in Jesus.

I implore you, never ever mitigate what someone is going through. Never ever write them off.
If someone has gone MIA, seek them out.
Be doctors, be nurses.
Let God use you to bring healing.

I know many of you have heard my testimony.

If it bores you I ask you to think again

You could be the person that God used to help me and restore me.
I am now walking with people in my church ministry and outside of the church to bring the love and grace that Jesus did.

Jesus is the ultimate doctor. Heal the broken hearted, the blind, the land.

Let that be the focus.
Let us be like Jesus.

I love you so much my brother BillG...I first learned from you that God loves me as much as He loves His Son our LORD and Savior...God Bless you my brother , how blessed are the people who come to your church , to have a loving Godly brother as yourself , the Light of our LORD shines out from you...In Jesus name I say this Amen...All the glory to Him , thank You God for our brother BillG...xox...

 

[BillG]

Not me! I keep turning back to the Bible!!
ROFL

Yeh I get that.

Keep having to go back to the verse where Jesus said God loves me as much as he loves him.

Although I don't get ROFL.

To me it's teenage speak.

I fell of that.

My teenage daughter text me to tell me that she passed her grade 6 piano exam.

I text by back with WTF.

Apparently it doesn't mean "Well that's fantastic"

No more text speak for me.

 

[BillG]

I love you so much my brother BillG...I first learned from you that God loves me as much as He loves His Son our LORD and Savior...God Bless you my brother , how blessed are the people who come to your church , to have a loving Godly brother as yourself , the Light of our LORD shines out from you...In Jesus name I say this Amen...All the glory to Him , thank You God for our brother BillG...xox...

Rose,

You probably don't realise this and even when I tell you this you may not get it.

But you truly are an inspiration.

You are seeking Jesus, being transformed to his image and I know he is working in you and using you.
I like others on here have had the privilege of walking with you and being part of the process of your walk.

God has given you the wings of an eagle. Go fly. Do not shrink back.

You have been through so much, trust God to use you.
I'm convinced he will be do.

Love you my sister.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

both you guys have been a blessing to me too



bill
rose

i love you both

 

[TruthTalk]

Not me! I keep turning back to the Bible!!
ROFL

Amen! "No turning back"

For someone who brags about how smart and logical you are, up to now I have seen neither attribute
in you. Maybe I should have said, no, "looking back", just for you.

The cost of following Jesus: Luke9:62
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and, "looks back" is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

 

[graceNpeace]

Do you think Abraham was less of a prophet than Moses. Do you think that Abraham knew less than Moses about the economy of God? I don't think so.

You are allowed an opinion - of course...
Problem is your opinion is devoid of any supporting proof for your assertion...

 

[VCO]

Not me! I keep turning back to the Bible!!
ROFL

He was referring to NO TURNING BACK, from CHRIST in control of our lives.

 

[VCO]

Are you not forgetting that God created a Priesthood which had ceremonial, sacrificial "works" for the cleansing of sins? And one could not be righteous without the removal of these sins?

And the Biblical fact that Abraham had God's Laws, but did not have the Priesthood God gave through Moses 430 years later.

Abraham didn't take his best goat to the Levite Priest every year as was commanded by God through Moses. He didn't "Pay" for his sin to be removed, he trusted in the Word which became Flesh to remove his sin.

But it would be sin to omit what God said about Abraham.

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

He had God's Commandments, but he didn't have the Priesthood given to the Levites who were not yet born.

So Abraham was justified "Apart" from the justification laws given to the Levites for the people. This truth seems to be ignored by many who come in Christ's name.

You have forgotten or just plain never knew it, BUT ABRAHAM WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY GOD, long before ABRAHAM EVER DID ANY RIGHTEOUS DEEDS. LITERALLY THE MOMENT HE BELIEVED, just like those of us that are BORN AGAIN.

Romans 5:10 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.


Isaiah 43:10-12 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I declared and saved and proclaimed, when there was no strange god among you; and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and I am God.

Genesis 22:1-2 (NCV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After these things God tested Abraham’s faith {from the first moment that ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD}. God said to him, “Abraham!“ And he answered, “Here I am.“ {NOT THE TESTING OF ABRAHAM'S FAITH LATER IN LIFE.}
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Then God said, “Take your only son, Isaac, the son you love, and go to the land of Moriah. Kill him there and offer him as a whole burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.“

 

[TruthTalk]

He was referring to NO TURNING BACK, from CHRIST in control of our lives.

The bible is unlike any other book in the world. It can only be understood and discerned through the illumination and guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is "human wisdom" found in books of higher education and there are a lot of very smart people whom you could say are walking encyclopedias.

And then there is Godly "wisdom from above", by which we can understand spiritual truth. If you try to interpret the bible with human wisdom you will fail and end up with false conclusions. I believe some people here on this thread are trying to peddle their false conclusions by using their human intellect.

God will give you His wisdom generously if you would ask.

and yes VCO I was referring to our walk with the Lord.

James5:1
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God,
who gives generously to all without finding fault,
and it will be given to him.

 

[VCO]

The conversation I was having was not about being righteous or not is was about if there was any Law before Moses. I showed Abraham had some form of Torah/Law/Instruction and Noah had clean food/animal Laws;

You are speaking against a point that was not even a part of the conversation.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[stillness]

Salvation is not possible by works: if it was possible the Law of Moses could be fulfilled by man.
What is overlooked and cause of debate is that we shall all receive according to our works.
"Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work."

 

[stillness]

Salvation is not possible by works: if it was possible the Law of Moses could be fulfilled by man.
What is overlooked and cause of debate is that we shall all receive according to our works.
"Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work."

"If we suffer with Him, we shall rule with Him," "Having fellowship in the sufferings of Christ..." The Holy Spirit enables us to forgive our enemies, victims of abuse forgiving the abuser is necessary growing in Love and only possible by the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus Said "I can do nothing of myself except what I see the father doing." Jesus did not believe in doing the work himself and we are called to follow Him. "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has dent." "A new commandment I give to you, that you Love one another: as I have Loved you, that you Love one another."There is no saint who has not had fellowship in the sufferings of Christ, "All that live godly shall suffer persecution." We are slow of heart to believe and see our dependency on the Holy Spirit to lead us in the Truth. Jesus could not help such as the Pharisees get saved because "Love does not insist on it's own way." His enemies are the ones who insist on their own way, "God will not share His Glory with another." Salvation is in Christ, "This is why we labour ("work of God," "Labourers together with God") and suffer reproach because we believe in the Living God who is the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." I believe this means that some who did not have opportunity to believe but lived according to their conscience will be among the nations of the saved, but may not be among the bride (Romains 2:14), such as Buddhists who believe on a higher plane they become one with Christians; like many Christians who went on living for themselves according to their conscience, will remain among the nations of the saved as well...

 

[dcontroversal]

IF WE CAN FIND ONE PERSON IN THE BIBLE, WHO WAS MADE RIGHTEOUS, THAT IS CLEARLY DEFINED; then we will KNOW how GOD imparts RIGHTEOUSNESS to Everyone else.


Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.


Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

Therefore, we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law!