GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[PS]

The belief that Christian worship must be conducted on a Gregorian Saturday (to the exclusion of a Gregorian Sunday) is something anti-Trinitarian groups are known for pushing.

Now you come to mention it, I can well imagine that to be the case.

 

[Dan_473]

Do the research.

well, the first question would be how to read the bible

literally true?

because i think it's hard to reconcile Abraham being Canaanite with done scriptures, taken literally

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 64:1-10, “64:1, "Hear my voice, O Elohim, in my meditation; Guard my life from the threats of the enemy."64:2, "Hide me from the secret plans of the evil-doers, From the tumult of the workers of wickedness,"64:3, "Who sharpen their tongue like a sword, And aim their arrows, a bitter word,"64:4, "To shoot in ambush at someone blameless, They shoot at him suddenly and do not fear."64:5, "They arm themselves with an evil word; They talk of hiding snares; They have said, “Who sees them?”"64:6, "They search out unrighteousness, “We have perfected a well searched out plan.” For the inward part of man, and heart, are deep."64:7, "But the Mighty One does shoot at them with an arrow; Their wounds shall be sudden."64:8, "And they cause one to stumble, Their own tongue is against them; All who see them flee away."64:9, "And all men fear, And declare the work of the Mighty One. And they shall wisely consider What He has done."64:10, "The righteous rejoice in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And shall take refuge in Him, And all the upright in heart praise Him.”[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 83:1-18, "83:1, "O Elohim, do not remain silent! Do not be speechless, And do not be still, O Ěl!"83:2, "For look, Your enemies make an uproar, And those hating You have lifted up their head."83:3, "They craftily plot against Your people, And conspire against Your treasured ones."83:4, "They have said, “Come, And let us wipe them out as a nation, And let the name of Yisra’ĕl be remembered no more.”"83:5, "For they have conspired together with one heart; They have made a covenant against You –"83:6, "The tents of Eḏom and the Yishma‛ĕlites, Mo’aḇ and the Haḡarites,"83:7, "Geḇal, and Ammon, and Amalĕq, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tsor,"83:8, "Ashshur also has joined with them, They have helped the children of Lot. Selah."83:9, "Do to them as to Miḏyan, As to Sisera, As to Yaḇin at the wadi Qishon,"83:10, "Who perished at Ěndor, Who became as dung for the ground."83:11, "Make their nobles like Orĕḇ and like Ze’ĕḇ, And all their princes like Zeḇaḥ and Tsalmunna,"83:12, "Who have said, “Let us take possession of the pastures of Elohim For ourselves.”"83:13, "O my Elohim, make them as whirling dust, As stubble before the wind!"83:14, "As a fire consumes a forest, And as a flame sets mountains on fire,"83:15, "So pursue them with Your whirlwind, And frighten them with Your storm."83:16, "Fill their faces with shame, And let them seek Your Name, O יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. 83:17, "Let them be ashamed and alarmed forever; And let them become abashed and perish,"83:18, "And let them know that You, Whose Name is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], You alone are the Most High over all the earth."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 44:21-23, "44:21, "Would Elohim not search this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart."44:22, "But for Your sake we are killed all day long; Reckoned as sheep for the slaughter."44:23, "Awake! Why do You sleep, O יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? Arise! Do not reject us forever."[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 74:18-23, "74:18, "Remember this: the enemy has reproached יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And a foolish people has despised Your Name."74:19, "Do not give the being of Your turtledove to the wild beast! Do not forget the life of Your afflicted ones forever."74:20, "Look to the covenant, For the dark places of the earth are filled With haunts of violence."74:21, "Let not the crushed one return ashamed! Let the poor and needy praise Your Name."74:22, "Arise, O Elohim, plead Your own cause, Remember how the foolish man reproaches You daily."74:23, "Do not forget the voice of Your enemies, The uproar of those rising up against You increases continually."[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

The belief that Christian worship must be conducted on a Gregorian Saturday (to the exclusion of a Gregorian Sunday) is something anti-Trinitarian groups are known for pushing.

Now you come to mention it, I can well imagine that to be the case.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”


Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."


Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

[PS]

well, the first question would be how to read the bible

literally true?

because i think it's hard to reconcile Abraham being Canaanite with done scriptures, taken literally

Abraham (Abram) wasn't a Canaanite. He was the progenitor of the Israelites who are descended from him through Isaac and Jacob. They were already living in the Promised Land, long before Moses invaded.

 

[Dan_473]

Seems like you ignore Biblical history. The lineage of the Israelites is documented in Genesis. They are Canaanite only by moving to that region. Thus you have to say the Bible is wrong to say they were Canaanites. This concept on a Christian web site What next? Jesus just a man? Super liberal reading of scripture.

it would be move away from a literal reading of the scriptures as literal history

to, say, considering the scriptures to be a record of people's experiences of God

 

[Dan_473]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 83:1-18, "83:1, "O Elohim, do not remain silent! Do not be speechless, And do not be still, O Ěl!"83:2, "For look, Your enemies make an uproar, And those hating You have lifted up their head."83:3, "They craftily plot against Your people, And conspire against Your treasured ones."83:4, "They have said, “Come, And let us wipe them out as a nation, And let the name of Yisra’ĕl be remembered no more.”"83:5, "For they have conspired together with one heart; They have made a covenant against You –"83:6, "The tents of Eḏom and the Yishma‛ĕlites, Mo’aḇ and the Haḡarites,"83:7, "Geḇal, and Ammon, and Amalĕq, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tsor,"83:8, "Ashshur also has joined with them, They have helped the children of Lot. Selah."83:9, "Do to them as to Miḏyan, As to Sisera, As to Yaḇin at the wadi Qishon,"83:10, "Who perished at Ěndor, Who became as dung for the ground."83:11, "Make their nobles like Orĕḇ and like Ze’ĕḇ, And all their princes like Zeḇaḥ and Tsalmunna,"83:12, "Who have said, “Let us take possession of the pastures of Elohim For ourselves.”"83:13, "O my Elohim, make them as whirling dust, As stubble before the wind!"83:14, "As a fire consumes a forest, And as a flame sets mountains on fire,"83:15, "So pursue them with Your whirlwind, And frighten them with Your storm."83:16, "Fill their faces with shame, And let them seek Your Name, O יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. 83:17, "Let them be ashamed and alarmed forever; And let them become abashed and perish,"83:18, "And let them know that You, Whose Name is [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], You alone are the Most High over all the earth."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 44:21-23, "44:21, "Would Elohim not search this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart."44:22, "But for Your sake we are killed all day long; Reckoned as sheep for the slaughter."44:23, "Awake! Why do You sleep, O יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? Arise! Do not reject us forever."[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 74:18-23, "74:18, "Remember this: the enemy has reproached יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And a foolish people has despised Your Name."74:19, "Do not give the being of Your turtledove to the wild beast! Do not forget the life of Your afflicted ones forever."74:20, "Look to the covenant, For the dark places of the earth are filled With haunts of violence."74:21, "Let not the crushed one return ashamed! Let the poor and needy praise Your Name."74:22, "Arise, O Elohim, plead Your own cause, Remember how the foolish man reproaches You daily."74:23, "Do not forget the voice of Your enemies, The uproar of those rising up against You increases continually."[/FONT][/FONT]

Lord, remember what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
They said, “Tear it down!
Tear it down to its foundations!”

8 People of Babylon, you will be destroyed.
The people who pay you back for what you did to us will be happy.
9 They will grab your babies
and throw them against the rocks.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ps+137&version=NCV

 

[Dan_473]

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”


Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."


Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

On these special days when you fast, you argue and fight
and hit each other with your fists.
You cannot do these things as you do now
and believe your prayers are heard in heaven.
5 This kind of special day is not what I want.
This is not the way I want people to be sorry for what they have done.
I don’t want people just to bow their heads like a plant
and wear rough cloth and lie in ashes to show their sadness.
This is what you do on your special days when you fast,
but do you think this is what the Lord wants?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah58&version=NCV

 

[Pythons]

Shamah,

Hebrews 10,25
NOT forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES [Christians] together, as the manner of SOME is; but extorting one another.....


Christians couldn't follow the above instructions by assembling themselves WITH practicing Jews...
...They could only comply with the instruction by assembling THEMSELVES together.
...Which is exactly what the Bible says they ( the Christians ) did.

Christians "assembled" themselves together on the 1st day of the week.


Acts 4, 31

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness"

​

Acts 20, 7​

"And upon the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, WHEN the disciples came together to break bread...."

[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]​

1 Cor 16, 2
Paul came and met with "assembled Christians" on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.


Again, folks who insist on a Gregorian Saturday as being required for worship to the exclusion of Sunday ARE ANTI-TRINITARIANS who also reject the doctrine of Hell & maintain that The Father was a flesh and bone hominid God.

 

[Dan_473]

Abraham (Abram) wasn't a Canaanite. He was the progenitor of the Israelites who are descended from him through Isaac and Jacob. They were already living in the Promised Land, long before Moses invaded.

are you saying the Israelites were already living in the Promised Land before Moses invaded?

 

[Shamah]

Shamah,

Hebrews 10,25
NOT forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES [Christians] together, as the manner of SOME is; but extorting one another.....


Christians couldn't follow the above instructions by assembling themselves WITH practicing Jews...
...They could only comply with the instruction by assembling THEMSELVES together.
...Which is exactly what the Bible says they ( the Christians ) did.

Christians "assembled" themselves together on the 1st day of the week.


Acts 4, 31

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness"

​

Acts 20, 7​

"And upon the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, WHEN the disciples came together to break bread...."

[SUB][/SUB]​

1 Cor 16, 2
Paul came and met with "assembled Christians" on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.


Again, folks who insist on a Gregorian Saturday as being required for worship to the exclusion of Sunday ARE ANTI-TRINITARIANS who also reject the doctrine of Hell & maintain that The Father was a flesh and bone hominid God.

Hebrew 10:25, acts 4:32 does not specify a day.

I think you need to check the greel on acts 20:7, and they broke bread EVERY DAY:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 2:46[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity--[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 20:7, “On the first day (#G1520 heis) of the week (#G4521 sabbaton), when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]first day” is word #G1520 - heis: one, Original Word: εἷς, μία, ἕν, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: heis, Phonetic Spelling: (hice), Short Definition: one, Definition: one.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]week” is word #G4521 sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week), Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: sabbaton, Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on), Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week, Definition: the Sabbath, a week.

1 Cir 16:2 is about collection:

2 Upon one of the weeks let every one of you lay by him in store, as יהוה hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."
[/FONT]

2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."

also you would be ignoring when they met on Sabbath:


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 13:14, “But passing through from Perge, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the congregation on the Sabbath day and sat down.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 13:27, “for those dwelling in Yerushalayim, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have filled them in having judged Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 13:44, “And on the next Sabbath almost all the city came together to hear the Word of YHWH."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:21, “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 16:13, “And on the Sabbath day we went outside the city by a river, where there used to be prayer. And having sat down we were speaking to the women who met there.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 17:2, “And according to his practice, Sha’ul went in unto them, and for three Sabbaths was reasoning with them from the Scriptures.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 18:4, “And he was reasoning in the congregation every Sabbath, and won over both Yehuḏim and Greeks.”

ALo to be clerar we should worship YHWH every day including the 1st day, however only one day has been set apart by the Creator, if you can show me a verse that another day has been set apart then I will listen to it.
[/FONT]

 

[Blik]

From the council of Jerusalem Acts 15


“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings.24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

This is all that is required of Gentile Christians to be saved, verse 29, there is no mention of keeping the Sabbath. This letter was written because of people trying to make Gentile Christians keep parts of the Law, when Christians are not required to do so. So as you said, I will listen to God and not man because it seemed good to the Holy Spirit to give these guidelines.

You speak of being saved but not of living for Christ. That is give me religion,not at all what God wants for us who He created and loves. You are not saved by obeying the law, your salvation is a gift from the Lord.

You are told through the law how to live with blessings from God. Be thankful for those blessings. They include joy. abundance, contentment. such things. But salvation is not something we earn by law keeping and it never, ever was. Moses did not promise salvation for keeping the law. Blessings but NOT salvation.

 

[Blik]

I did. It comes across as an attack. Just tone it down a bit.

Colossians 2 NIV

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Do you think you are obeying the rules of God and not men by disobeying all God says about the Sabbath? That doesn't make sense to me.
















;

 

[Shamah]

Colossians 2 is commonly used as a witness against Yah’s Sabbaths, however, Yah’s Sabbaths are 100% bout the Messiah and have origins from Yah, not the world or paganism…

Colossians 2:20, “If, then, you died with Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to it’s ordinances.”

Are the Sabbath (7[SUP]th[/SUP] day) and the Feast days ordinances of the world or are they from YHWH?

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

Leviticus 23:4, “These are the appointed times of יהוה, set-apart gatherings which you are to proclaim at their appointed times.”

Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

Psalms 74:4, “Your adversaries have roared In the midst of Your appointments; They have set up their own signs as signs.”

Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When YHWH your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods (elohim), saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship YHWH your Father in their way, for every abomination to YHWH, which He hates, they have done to their gods . They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.”

Colossians 2:16-23 is without a doubt a much debated and misunderstood passage, lets review it in context of the time frame, people who it was written about, the person who wrote it, the culture, the Law of the Most High and law of that time enforced by the religious leaders.

Colossians 2:16-23, "16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19 and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God. 20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 2 thou may not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honor, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

16 “Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,”

For Doing or not doing? Or Both? If we look at this verse in the context of the time and culture it was written in we may have an idea. The Pharisees and Sadducees were of the ruling class religiously, socially and economically. After captive Israyl left Babylon the calendar was altered and so were the Feast Days of YHWH, so if an individual did not keep a Feast Day or Sabbath according to what the Pharisees said they could be killed. 23 vols of man made “law” were made, now called the Babylonian Talmud, this is not the Law of the Most High and is purely man made religion.

The prophet Zecharyah was killed over this very matter and Yahshua Himself mentioned the murder;

Matthew 23:34-35, “Because of this, see, I send you prophets, and wise men, and scholars of Scripture, Some of them you shall kill and impale, and some of them you shall flog in your congregations and persecute from city to city, so that on you should come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Heḇel to the blood of Zeḵaryah, son of Bereḵyah, whom you murdered between the Dwelling Place and the altar."

2 Chronicles 24:20-21, "Then the Spirit of the Most High came upon Zeḵaryah son of Yehoyaḏa the priest, who stood above the people, and said to them, “Thus said the Most High, ‘Why are you transgressing the commands of יהוה, and do not prosper? Because you have forsaken יהוה, He has forsaken you. And they conspired against him, and at the command of the sovereign they stoned him with stones in the courtyard of the House of יהוה."

The prophet Zecharyah (father of John the baptist) had a disagreement with the Pharisees about what day to keep the Day of Atonement, they commanded him to not honor it on the day YHWH said to but to rather honor the day they supplied, “the tradition of the elders”. Zecharyah chose to obey YHWH, and his body was killed because of it, and as we just read Yahshua scolded them on this matter.

And the Pharisess accused Yahshua and His disciples because they did not wash their hands before they ate:

Matthew 15:1-2, “Then there came to יהושע scribes and Pharisees from Yerushalayim, saying, Why do Your taught ones transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

Finally they accused Yahshua of breaking the Sabbath. He did not break the Sabbath according to YHWH, if He did He could not have been the sinless/spotless Passover Lamb, but He did break the Pharisees man made Sabbath “laws”

Matthew 12:1-8, "12:1, "At that time יהושע went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And His taught ones were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain, to eat."12:2, "And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your taught ones are doing what is not right to do on the Sabbath!”"12:3, "But He said to them, “Have you not read what Dawiḏ did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:"12:4, "how he went into the House of יהוה and ate the showbread which was not right for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?"12:5, "“Or did you not read in the Torah that on the Sabbath the priests in the Set-apart Place profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?"12:6, "“But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the Set-apart Place."12:7, "“And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering,’ Hos 6:6 you would not have condemned the blameless."12:8, "“For the Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”a Footnote: aSee also Gen 2:2-3."
They were blameless because they were doing the work and will of YHWH, that is the purpose of the Sabbath, the pharisees made it about sitting in your house twiddling your thumbs...

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

Isayah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Matthew 12:9-14, "12:9, "And having left there, He went into their congregation."12:10, "And see, there was a man having a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it right to heal on the Sabbath?” – so as to accuse Him."12:11, "And He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, shall not take hold of it and lift it out?"12:12, "“How much more worth is a man than a sheep! So it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath.”"12:13, "Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored, as healthy as the other."12:14, "But the Pharisees went out and took counsel against Him, so as to destroy Him."

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

Mark 3:1-6, "3:1, "And He went into the congregation again, and a man who had a withered hand was there."3:2, "And they were watching Him, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so as to accuse Him."3:3, "And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Get up to the middle.”"3:4, "And He said to them, “Is it right to do good on the Sabbath, or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent."3:5, "And having looked around on them with displeasure, being grieved at the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored as healthy as the other."3:6, "And the Pharisees went out and immediately plotted with the Herodians against Him, how to destroy Him."

Now back to Colossians 2:

Colossians 2:16-17, “Let no one therefore judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths; which are a shadow of what is to come – but the Body of the Messiah.”

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

These are not things past but “Coming things”, and this translation is true the konie Greek. What coming things? The prophecies of YHWH or the “shadow”, is the 7 Feast Days and the weekly Sabbath are prophetic shadow pictures, the first 3 of the Messiah’s work as a Lamb, the last 4 of His return as a Lion, and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath represents the true rest that is yet to come;

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”

There are 2 "it is done" statements, not everything has been fulfilled and thus perfected;

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

Again are these Feast days “according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah?” or are they 100% founded in Scripture created by YHWH and 100% about the works of the Messiah?

 

[Pythons]

Hebrew 10:25, acts 4:32 does not specify a day.

I think you need to check the greel on acts 20:7, and they broke bread EVERY DAY:

Acts 2:46

"The Church" didn't assemble themselves together every day as many were slaves...
...Of course they continued "evangelizing" in the Synagogue until they were ejected.
...Exactly as Jesus said they would in the future be.

What Hebrews 10:25 is talking about is "Christians" assembling THEMSELVES together...
...This couldn't be done in a "Synagogue" it was done in home Churches.
...Groups of Christians who assembled themselves together APART from religious Jews.

One day was set aside for the Children of Israel under the law of Moses...
...A "ceremonial law" among MANY other "ceremonial laws".
...Ceremonial laws require instruction - Moral Laws DON'T.

 

[Shamah]

"The Church" didn't assemble themselves together every day as many were slaves...
...Of course they continued "evangelizing" in the Synagogue until they were ejected.
...Exactly as Jesus said they would in the future be.

What Hebrews 10:25 is talking about is "Christians" assembling THEMSELVES together...
...This couldn't be done in a "Synagogue" it was done in home Churches.
...Groups of Christians who assembled themselves together APART from religious Jews.

One day was set aside for the Children of Israel under the law of Moses...
...A "ceremonial law" among MANY other "ceremonial laws".
...Ceremonial laws require instruction - Moral Laws DON'T.

Why do you always cut out the part pf my post that proves my point?

every believe has never assembled at one single time, but Scripture does indded say they met every day:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 2:46[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,

you used Hebrews 10:25 as specifying Sunday, it is not about any particular day for or against...

I guess we can say any Law we dont like is "ceremonial"

Seems Yahshua and YHWH do not see the Sabbath as "ceremonial":

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Pythons]

Why do you always cut out the part pf my post that proves my point?

I didn't see what you posted as proving your point....

every believe has never assembled at one single time, but Scripture does indded say they met every day:

At the point of Hebrews 10, 25 they evidently weren't...
...That's why the Apostle tells them not to forsake assembling.
..."Themselves together"

Acts 2:46

you used Hebrews 10:25 as specifying Sunday, it is not about any particular day for or against...

Hebrews is specific Christians are to assemble THEMSELVES together...
...The examples we have of "Christian Assembly" are on the 1st day.
...Of the week.

Do you have ANY examples of "Christian Worship" being conducted on the Jewish Sabbath?

I guess we can say any Law we dont like is "ceremonial"

We can't, ceremonial laws are specifically ceremonial.

Seems Yahshua and YHWH do not see the Sabbath as "ceremonial":

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

It's MORAL to help a person any day of the week therefore...
...The MORAL LAW is above the ceremonial [Sabbath] law.
....You just proved it to yourself.

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”

Who is "YOU" in the context of this Scripture Shamah?
...Do you observe the other "Feast days" of the Jewish Liturgical Calendar?
...If not why not?

 

[Shamah]

I follow YHWH's calendar, the Jewish calendar was altered during Babylonian captivity, yes I celebrate all the Sabbath days, 7th and Feast.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 18:4, “And he was reasoning in the congregation every Sabbath, and won over both Yehuḏim and Greeks.”

even the Messiah thinks Sababth is still valid in the endtimes:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 24:20, “And pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.”

says nothign will pass from the Law:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

and there is prophecy of evil tricking the minds of men into thinking a chage has occured to the "zemawn" in aramais, in hebrew that is "moadim", in english appointed times....


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]times” is word #H2166 – zeman, Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) a set time, time, season[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]H2166 [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]זְמָן [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]zman (zem-awn') n-m., an appointed occasion., [(Aramaic) from H2165], KJV: season, time., Root(s): H2165 [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]H2165 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]זְמָן [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]zman (zem-awn') n-m., an appointed occasion., [from H2163], KJV: season, time., Root(s): H2163 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]H2163 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]זָמַן [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]zaman (zaw-man') v., to fix (a time)., [a primitive root], KJV: appoint. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 74:4, “Your adversaries have roared In the midst of Your appointments; They have set up their own signs as signs.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:14, "And the Mighty One said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 104:19, "You appointed the moon for setting the appointed times. The sun knows its going down."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]appointed times” is word #H4150 - Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מוֹעֵד[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: moed, Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade'), Short Definition: meeting, Word Origin from yaad, Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 23:2-4, “Speak to the children of Yisra’ĕl, and say to them, ‘The appointed times (#H4150) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], which you are to proclaim as set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744), My appointed times (#H4150), are these: Six days work is done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath (#H7676) of rest (#H7677), a set-apart (#H6944) gathering (#H4744). You do no work, it is a Sabbath to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in all your dwellings. These are the appointed times (#H4150) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], set-apart (#H6944) gatherings (#H4744) which you are to proclaim at their appointed times (#H4150)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"appointed times" is word #H4150 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מוֹעֵד [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]mow`ed (mo-ade') n-m. 1. (properly) an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season., 2. (specifically) a festival., 3. (conventionally) a year., 4. (by implication) an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose)., 5. (technically) the congregation., 6. (by extension) the place of meeting., 7. (also) a signal (as appointed beforehand)., [from H3259], KJV: appointed (sign, time), (place of, solemn) assembly, congregation, (set, solemn) feast, (appointed, due) season, solemn(-ity), synogogue, (set) time (appointed). , Root(s): H3259[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"set-apart" is word #H6944 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]קֹדֶשׁ [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]qodesh (ko'-desh) n-m. 1. a holy thing., 2. (of location) a holy place., 3. (of event) a holy event (i.e. a memorial)., 4. (abstract, rarely) holiness., 5. (double emphasized) Holy of Holies (the holy place of holy places, the most holiest place)., 6. Holy (Spirit)., [from H6942][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV: consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary. , Root(s): H6942 , See also: H4720, G39[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"gatherings" is word #H4744 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מִקרָא [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]miqra' (mik-raw') n-m. 1. something called out, i.e. regarding citizens (the act of, the persons, or the place)., 2. a calling forth (of the congregation) to assemble., 3. (as an event, with H6944) a (holy) called out memorial (i.e. a recalling to collective memory; the appointed feasts; see Leviticus 23:2)., 4. (specially) a called out assembly (of the Redeemed Kinsmen of Yahweh— out of captivity; see Nehemiah 8:8, then Exodus 6:6, Exodus 15:13)., 5. (specifically, of Yeshua) a called out assembly of the Redeemed of Yeshua (Jesus), both of Jew (first) and of Gentile— from Moral Failure and Death (see progression from Isaiah 4:5, Matthew 18:17, Matthew 16:18, Acts 2:47)., 6. (Note #1) (The called out assembly is the citizenry of the Redeemed of Jesus; the citizenry under his Redemption and Kingship; Although identified regionally, the citizens of Redemption differs by nature from a local gathering, synagogue, congregation, or the institution of church. “What redemption do you belong to?”)., 7. (Note #2) From Matthew 16:18, Yeshua said, “I will build [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מִקְרָאֶתִי [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], my called out assembly.” When residing upon mount Tsiyon (Zion), it is figuratively called “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]מִקְרָאֶהָ [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], her called out assembly” in Isaiah 4:5. Aside from this, it is never personalized by anyone else in Scripture; we belong to him., [from H7121], KJV: assembly, calling, convocation, reading. , Root(s): H7121 , See also: G1577[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl Chapter 2-7 is written in Aramaic, not Hebrew. The Israylites were taken captive to Babylon and made to forget their ways under the rule of the Bablonian king. “Zem-awn'” is an Aramaic word, and is the literal equivilent of the Hebrew word “moadim” - word #H4150 meaning: “appointed times”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"time" for , “a time and times and the dividing of time” Is a different root word from the first thus showing it conveys a different meaning.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]a time and times and the dividing of time” is word #H5732 – iddan, Strong's Concordance - iddan: time, Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]עִדָּן[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: iddan, Phonetic Spelling: (id-dawn'), Short Definition: time[/FONT][/FONT]