Not By Works

[Shamah]

Do you keep the very law you peddle......nope, so what value does your law blend false gospel accomplish? Nothing but condemnation!

how does that vile accusation filled comment even touch on anything I said

you ignore what I said and continue to accuse

do you call names and constantly accuse people?

No I am not perfect that does not change His standard or do away with the Law

You seek to accuse me to justify your Lawless doctrine

your isolation of Scripture shows you are either dishonest or unlearned in the word

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”




1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

 

[Studyman]

Sure! I like these discussions myself.

So, for me Christ is the end of righteousness for all those who believe. And faith is what pleases God, walking with Him is done in faith. That He is enough, He is with me, and He is continually changing me. One Scripture that comes to mind says, we purify ourselves through the hope we shall be like Him, even as He is pure.

Where I think we fall in error is not drawing a line in the sand. There is before the cross, where we are under the lesser principles and after Christ where we now live from unity with His Spirit. The good works come from resting in Him. And like a branch, we receive life giving nutrients from Him our Vine, and fruit of the Spirit is born over time.

Where I still struggle, there is an invitation to know Him and His freedom greater. In this He is continually forming me and working all things out for me to be like Him. I am His son.

So what is the difference between what Paul is saying in Ephesians and what the Word which became Flesh is saying in Jeremiah?

There are some who preach that the Word which became Flesh is different after the cross than He was before. Is that what you mean?

 

[Cee]

Sure! I like these discussions myself.

So, for me Christ is the end of righteousness for all those who believe. And faith is what pleases God, walking with Him is done in faith. That He is enough, He is with me, and He is continually changing me. One Scripture that comes to mind says, we purify ourselves through the hope we shall be like Him, even as He is pure.

Where I think we fall in error is not drawing a line in the sand. There is before the cross, where we are under the lesser principles and after Christ where we now live from unity with His Spirit. The good works come from resting in Him. And like a branch, we receive life giving nutrients from Him our Vine, and fruit of the Spirit is born over time.

Where I still struggle, there is an invitation to know Him and His freedom greater. In this He is continually forming me and working all things out for me to be like Him. I am His son.

end of the Law for righteousness*

 

[Shamah]

Do you keep the very law you peddle......nope, so what value does your law blend false gospel accomplish? Nothing but condemnation!

so your hate filled rant teaches what?

that condemnation is written on the heart?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

yet he calls it love:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

end of the Law of righteousness*

have you looked into the Greek of Rom 10:4?

if it is the end of the law in Rom 10:4 then it is the end of the Lord in Jam 5:11...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”[/FONT][/FONT]



telos

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose (telos) of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

have you looked into the Greek of Rom 10:4?

if it is the end of the law in Rom 10:4 then it is the end of the Lord in Jam 5:11...

James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”



James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”



telos

The word translated “end” is word#G5056, τέλος, telos, tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid):—+ continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.


Lets look at places this word is used in the Konie Greek originals to get an idea of it meaning and context;


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."


1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."


1 Peter 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith – the salvation of your souls."


If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away or at an end in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away or at an end in 1 Peter 1:9. Unless of course “telos” means the goal.


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #G5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


James 5:11, “Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.”



James 5:11, “See, we call those blessed who endure. You have heard of the endurance of Iyoḇ and saw the purpose(telos) of יהוה, that He is very sympathetic and compassionate.”



1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end (telos) of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”


1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the goal (telos) of this command is love from a clean heart, from a good conscience and a sincere belief.”


Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)


HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.


Romans 6:22, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end (telos) everlasting life.”


Romans 6:22, “But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Yah, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the goal (telos); everlasting life.”


Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."


Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."


The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law…

Galatians 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Huh. So Christ really IS the end of the law for Righteousness. In every way.

Maybe the Greek word for "frustrate" means something other than frustrate....​

 

[Shamah]

is Paul confised?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 2:13, “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”

or do you twist his writing?

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

Galatians 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Huh. So Christ really IS the end of the law for Righteousness. In every way.

Maybe the Greek word for "frustrate" means something other than frustrate....​

does this mean that

a the "telos" is the end of the Lord as you say it is the end of the Law?

b that Paul is in error, he himself said he keot the Law:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

and there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Messiah... so that is not an excuse...

 

[mailmandan]

end of the Law for righteousness*

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Sadly, there are misguided teachers of the law today who are seeking to establish their own righteousness through salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" who have not submitted to the righteousness of God. Subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel.

 

[Grandpa]

is Paul confised?

Galatians 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”


Romans 2:13, “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”

or do you twist his writing?


2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”








does this mean that

a the "telos" is the end of the Lord as you say it is the end of the Law?

b that Paul is in error, he himself said he keot the Law:

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

and there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Messiah... so that is not an excuse...

IS Christ dead in vain?

Or has the righteousness of the law ended in Christ?

You only get to choose one.

 

[graceNpeace]

If you know what it is not then you would have to know what it is, so...

Im all ears, what is "The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning."

Yes!
The reference is John 13:34-35 "[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”[/FONT]"

Compare with 1 John 2:8-11 "8 [FONT=&quot]Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.[/FONT]"

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TORAH!

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

Yes!
The reference is John 13:34-35 ". 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”"

Compare with 1 John 2:8-11 "8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes."

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TORAH!

2 things...

1. does that then erase thse passages and the rest of 1 John?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

2. Why is it a new command?

I say because the Messiah had not yet showed us the proper way to love until He came, thus when He came He showed us how to love....

 

[VCO]

God caused the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to be the Word of God. God all translations are made by man and flawed. Your idiotic statement ignores this simple fact. God expects you to use your brain and understand facts about the Bible. God didn't ordain the KJV translation King James did in 1610 and it was finished in 1611. Over 400 years ago. You ignore language changes over time. Go read an original text of Choucer and see if you can understand it. Then there is Shakespeare that uses word you can't understand. He had a lot of humor that is not understood today because jobs and other things do not exist today.

Language changes over time. KJV has the same problem as Shakespeare had. This is why current translations are REQUIRED. Here are some sites that discuss the problems of KJV. Read them and learn from the experts in translation.

KJV Issues

https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/

https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new

King James Version issues

Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute

Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.

https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html

The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2

Here is the passage that convinced me, I had to move on to a modern translation:


2 Thessalonians 2:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


And all I could say was - - HUH?


My personal Favorite is the Holman's Christian Standard Bible. And here is why, they are not afraid to CALL HIM YAHWEH:


Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.


It was first published in 2004, and they made the electronic version a FREE BIBLE that works very well in the free WORDsearch Starter program. https://www.wordsearchbible.com/ws-starter

How is the 2 Thessalonians 2:7 worded in the HCSB?

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of His mouth and will bring him to nothing with the brightness of His coming.

 

[Shamah]

IS Christ dead in vain?

Or has the righteousness of the law ended in Christ?

You only get to choose one.

I choose the Messiah words:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”

you may use Galatians to erase what the Messiah said I will not.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[graceNpeace]

2 things...

1. does that then erase thse passages and the rest of 1 John?

2. Why is it a new command?

I say because the Messiah had not yet showed us the proper way to love until He came, thus when He came He showed us how to love....

Question 1.
Why would it ERASE anything??????

What it erases is your false interpretation of those texts!
I am not the one who ignores most of the text of the Bible to construct elaborate yet false doctrine...

Question 2.
The answer you give is correct in as much as what it says, but there is more to it...

 

[Shamah]

Question 1.
Why would it ERASE anything??????

What it erases is your false interpretation of those texts!
I am not the one who ignores most of the text of the Bible to construct elaborate yet false doctrine...

Question 2.
The answer you give is correct in as much as what it says, but there is more to it...

1. I am not saying Im erasing, Im saying the MEssiah is the sent One His voice is the One we must hear and obey, if you think, that is IF you think Paul taught different or that the Messiah's words are somehow done away or anythign like that then I believe it is error. Messiah said His words are foreve and He said nothing from the Law will pass. He gave us the perfect example of how we are supposed to live, He was obedient and doing this is true love.

2. Ok what do you have to add to it then?

bottom line

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]

 

[gb9]

1. I am not saying Im erasing, Im saying the MEssiah is the sent One His voice is the One we must hear and obey, if you think, that is IF you think Paul taught different or that the Messiah's words are somehow done away or anythign like that then I believe it is error. Messiah said His words are foreve and He said nothing from the Law will pass. He gave us the perfect example of how we are supposed to live, He was obedient and doing this is true love.

2. Ok what do you have to add to it then?

bottom line

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Messiah also said " whosoever believes in me shall have eternal life ".


one should not isolate Scripture and build theology around it.

 

[mailmandan]

Messiah also said " whosoever believes in me shall have eternal life ".

one should not isolate Scripture and build theology around it.

Amen! We also must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

 

[gb9]

Amen! We also must not confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.

there are over 33.000 verses in the Bible. anyone can cut and paste and mix and match and make the Word say most anything. but, this is not the intent of it.

 

[Shamah]

Messiah also said " whosoever believes in me shall have eternal life ".


one should not isolate Scripture and build theology around it.

This is true, and it's funny because where I post a lot Im told to shorten it, when I post a little it's isolating.

IMO posting a single Scripture itself is not isolation, posting a single or very few and using it build a doctrine that conflicts with the rest of Scripture is isolation IMO..

This verse:


John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

I believe is safe that it is true, however I will support it with the OT and the NT:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘[/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 28:19-20, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit, and make disciples of all the nations, immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-apart Spirit. Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 - ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.), Original Word: ἔθνος, ους, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: ethnos, Phonetic Spelling: (eth'-nos), Short Definition: a race, people, the Gentiles, Definition: a race, people, nation; the nations, heathen world, Gentiles.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."[/FONT]





that should be sufficent to prove that Yahshua/Jesus is the One we Must hear and obey[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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