GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[graceNpeace]

That is Jesus who is Yahweh on earth, God with us, Immanuel, and your denial of the Trinity is a denial of Jesus as God. In other words you do not believe in Him as you should.

Is he really denying the Trinity?
Can you let me know which posts these are - I would be interested to read them...

(PS I am not querying the accuracy of what you are saying - I just want to read the posts for myself.)

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”[/FONT]



Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


Mat 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."


Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,.."

 

[PS]

Is he really denying the Trinity?
Can you let me know which posts these are - I would be interested to read them...

(PS I am not querying the accuracy of what you are saying - I just want to read the posts for myself.)

We know each other of old, and that forum closed down.

 

[Shamah]

Here is a post of you calling the Most High "the serpent"

It is good you showed us the scriptures that speak of the unity of Father and Son. We know the Son spoke as the Father spoke, for Father and Son are One, but as we read the sayings of Father God via. the Son, we can see there is no resemblance between Father God and Yahweh. Father God is the giver of life, while Yahweh is the Destroyer, the serpent in the Garden.

Scripture says different:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:4, “These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](YHWH) Elohim made earth and heavens.”


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 40:10-31, "40:10, "See, the Master יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]comes with strength, and His arm rules for Him. See, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him."40:11, "He feeds His flock like a shepherd, He gathers the lambs with His arm, and carries them in His bosom, gently leading those who are with young."40:12, "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and measured the heavens with a span, and contained the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance?"40:13, "Who has meted out the Spirit of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], or as His counsellor taught Him?"40:14, "With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of right-ruling? Who taught Him knowledge, and showed Him the way of understanding?"40:15, "See, nations are as a drop in a bucket, and are reckoned as dust on the balance. See, He lifts up isles as fine dust."40:16, "And Leḇanon is not enough to burn, nor its beasts enough for an ascending offering."40:17, "All nations before Him are as a non-entity, and they are reckoned by Him as less than a speck, and emptiness."40:18, "And to whom would you liken Ěl? And what likeness would you compare to Him?"40:19, "The workman moulds a graven image, and the goldsmith overspreads it with gold, and the silversmith casts silver chains."40:20, "He who is too poor for such an offering chooses a tree that does not rot. He seeks for himself a skilled craftsman to prepare a carved image that does not totter."40:21, "Did you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?"40:22, "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in,"40:23, "who brings princes to naught, shall make the rulers of the earth as emptiness."40:24, "Hardly have they been planted, hardly have they been sown, hardly has their stock taken root in the earth, when He shall blow on them and they wither, and a whirlwind take them away like stubble."40:25, "“And to whom then do you liken Me, or to whom am I compared?” says the Set-apart One."40:26, "Lift up your eyes on high and see. Who has created these? He is bringing out their host by number, He calls them all by name, by the greatness of ability and potent of power, a man is not lacking."40:27, "Why do you say, O Ya‛aqoḇ, and speak, O Yisra’ĕl, “My way is hidden from [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and my rights are overlooked by my Elohim”?"40:28, "Did you not know? Have you not heard? The everlasting Elohim, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], the Creator of the ends of the earth, neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable."40:29, "He gives power to the faint, and to those who have no might He increases strength."40:30, "Even youths shall faint and be weary, and young men stumble and fall,"40:31, "but those who wait on [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]renew their strength, they raise up the wing like eagles, they run and are not weary, they walk and do not faint."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

Zechariah 3:8-9, “Now listen, Yahshua the high priest, you and your companions who sit before you, for they are men of symbol. For look, I am bringing forth My Servant the Branch. See the stone which I have put before Yehoshua: on one stone are seven eyes. See, I am engraving its inscription,’ declares יהוה of hosts, ’and I shall remove the guilt of that land in one day.”

 

[PS]

Here is a post of you calling the Most High "the serpent"

My "Most High God" is the Word who became flesh which you, like the Pharisees deny.

Jesus told them and anyone else of similar mind their father was the devil (serpent) in John 8:44.

I'm closing now. I do not like these conversations.

 

[lightbearer]

Zechariah 3:8-9, “Now listen, Yahshua the high priest, you and your companions who sit before you, for they are men of symbol. For look, I am bringing forth My Servant the Branch. See the stone which I have put before Yehoshua: on one stone are seven eyes. See, I am engraving its inscription,’ declares יהוה of hosts, ’and I shall remove the guilt of that land in one day.”

Guilt? What version is that Shamah.
It should be Iniquity.

 

[lightbearer]

My "Most High God" is the Word who became flesh which you, like the Pharisees deny.

Jesus told them and anyone else of similar mind their father was the devil (serpent) in John 8:44.

I'm closing now. I do not like these conversations.

Of course you don't.
And Shamah never denied the Word becoming flesh.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by lightbearer

In other words...
All the Commandments are done away with? So feel free to kill, commit adultery, worship other gods, steal; etc....?

Oh wait they are mentioned in the New Testament so they are still a active power through the Spirit in a Christians life; but the rest of the Law isn't?


So bestiality is ok according to your wisdom? It is not mentioned in the New Testament. As are quite a few that many here would adamantly proclaim are still part of our life in Christ.

Jesus told us to keep HIS commandments. He never commanded us to do the above.

You don't know what you are talking about nor what you say.

The Word that became flesh is the propagator of that to which you deny.

 

[PS]

Of course you don't.
And Shamah never denied the Word becoming flesh.

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

That is the reason I do not like these sacrilegious conversations with those who deny the next verse:-

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Col 2:8-9)

May I ask if you believe all the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus, and also do you believe Jesus is The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace? (Isa 9:6)

 

[PS]

You don't know what you are talking about nor what you say.

The Word that became flesh is the propagator of that to which you deny.

Jesus as the Word talking to a licentious people.

 

[lightbearer]

Originally Posted by lightbearer

In other words...
All the Commandments are done away with? So feel free to kill, commit adultery, worship other gods, steal; etc....?

Oh wait they are mentioned in the New Testament so they are still a active power through the Spirit in a Christians life; but the rest of the Law isn't?


So bestiality is ok according to your wisdom? It is not mentioned in the New Testament. As are quite a few that many here would adamantly proclaim are still part of our life in Christ.

You are always good for a giggle...

And you are always good for making accusations and innuendos which are contrary to your screen name and the LOVE to which we are part of.

However it is very sad that you believe that a New covenant believer has to be EXPLICITLY told NOT to sin....

I don't believe that.

The Faith; the Word being in our hearts and in our mouths. His Law put in our hearts and minds that we do it is what I live through and move and have my being. As HE is so are we in this world; Love.

Nonetheless, your argument: that without the Torah everyone must automatically devolve into antonomianism is without foundation.

Never said that. However if I am not mistaken you believe and teach that if it is not repeated in the New Testament then it does not apply to Christians. Hence my reply to you.

Instruction to New covenant believers is full of ethical and moral directive, including reiteration of nine of the ten commands fro the Decalogue minus the command to observe the Sabbath

Instructions and Directives? No! Instructions and Directives are for those for whom have not received the Faith. If the Word; HIS Law is in our hearts, minds and mouths we need not be instructed for we become what they beheld!

And your comment in regards to the Sabbath is wrong.

He that enters into his rest (the Gospel) cease from their own works as GOD did from HIS.

, but the most important is what Paul calls "the Fruit of the Spirit". And he explicitly terminates that list of characteristics with this: "Against such there is no law." Gal 5:22

This is true but you know not what you say.
If we are dead nevertheless we live yet, not us but Christ liveth in us and the lives we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith (Word) of Son of GOD. We (sin) are no longer the problem. It is not us but Christ the hope of Glory.

Why would he say such a thing?

Spirit equals no sin.

Real love - agape love.
This is the real law of the New covenant - the law of love - Romans chapters 13 and 14.

For in this hangs all the Law and Prophets!

This is a foreign concept for you but nonetheless this is what the New covenant ethic, morality, and law is all about!
It is nothing to do with the letter of the Law...

As HE is so are we; Love. It is not an outward observance per say; but a state of being. We are a new creation; the Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. The Word manifested in the flesh; our flesh. For HIS law is in our hearts and in our minds. HIS Word is in our hearts and in our mouths this is the Faith to which we speak. Not us but Christ. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

 

[lightbearer]

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

That is the reason I do not like these sacrilegious conversations with those who deny the next verse:-

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Col 2:8-9)

May I ask if you believe all the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus, and also do you believe Jesus is The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace? (Isa 9:6)

The word godhead is made up.

According to the BDAG The Greek word it is translated from means the state of being god, divine character/nature, deity, divinity, used as abstract noun for θεός (Orig., C. Cels. 7, 25, 9): τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θ. the fullness of deity Col 2:9

I don't like that Bauer says "the fullness of Deity" He ignores the definite article "the" and did not capitalize deity even though it is referring to GOD. The fullness of the DEITY or the DIVINITY; the state of being GOD; HIS nature and character; the Word manifested in the flesh.

 

[PS]

The word godhead is made up.

According to the BDAG The Greek word it is translated from means the state of being god, divine character/nature, deity, divinity, used as abstract noun for θεός (Orig., C. Cels. 7, 25, 9): τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θ. the fullness of deity Col 2:9

I don't like that Bauer says "the fullness of Deity" He ignores the definite article "the" and did not capitalize deity even though it is referring to GOD. The fullness of the DEITY or the DIVINITY; the state of being GOD; HIS nature and character; the Word manifested in the flesh.

I understand.

 

[Dan_473]

We can see the ending of the law and the blessings God bestowed upon us with our new life in Christ when the physical temple made of stone was destroyed and the Jews themselves ended the ritual sacrificing of the lamb.

and cool thing about the destruction of the temple

it happens 40 years after Jesus' resurrection

 

[PS]

and cool thing about the destruction of the temple

it happens 40 years after Jesus' resurrection

Another reason to believe in, and to trust the word of God.

I'm still smarting from the denial of Psalm 110.

"Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"

Nice one. "I (Yahweh) said to my Master “Sit at My right hand, Until I (your servant) make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"

Yahweh speaks to his Master who is Jesus.

 

[Dan_473]

Yes it was in the quote, my view is the hebrew is intrepreted/translated as in this quote:



This is due to the origin language and context of t he entire Psalm.

Look at the Hebrew;

This is "my Master"

לַֽאדֹנִ֗י

This is "Master"

אָדֹן

thanks!

so, in your view it's the "my Lord" that is The Word which became Flesh

and The Word which became Flesh is one with yhwh

but not the same as yhwh

such that yhwh is talking to himself
?

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."[/FONT]

thanks!

so, in your view it's the "my Lord" that is The Word which became Flesh

and The Word which became Flesh is one with yhwh

but not the same as yhwh

such that yhwh is talking to himself
?

I understand that the word does not ususally matter to most people when understanding and forming doctrine and really the entire book needs to be considered and we still will not know all of His mysteries, but the word is the word. However anything added 300 yers ar 1,100 years later that was not in the original text is not the word, we must diligently seek.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahanan/John 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:13, “The Mighty One of Aḇraham, and of Yitsḥaq, and of Ya‛aqoḇ, the Mighty One of our fathers, esteemed His Servant [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:36, “But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:39, “For I say to you, from now on you shall by no means see Me, until you say, ‘Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 118:26-27, “Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! We shall bless you from the House of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is Mighty, and He gave us light; Bind the Festival offering With cords to the horns of the Altar.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 21:9, "And the crowds who went before and those who followed cried out, saying, “Hoshia-na to the Son of Dawiḏ! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! Hoshia-na in the highest!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:28, “You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:19-20, “Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:44-50, “Then [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me should stay in darkness. And if anyone hears My Words but does not watch over them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day. Because I spoke not from Myself, but the Father who sent Me has given Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

Another reason to believe in, and to trust the word of God.

I'm still smarting from the denial of Psalm 110.

"Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"

Nice one. "I (Yahweh) said to my Master “Sit at My right hand, Until I (your servant) make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"

Yahweh speaks to his Master who is Jesus.

"I'm still smarting from the denial of Psalm 110."

I'm not following you here

do you feel that i denied ps 110?

 

[Dan_473]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."[/FONT]





I understand that the word does not ususally matter to most people when understanding and forming doctrine and really the entire book needs to be considered and we still will not know all of His mysteries, but the word is the word. However anything added 300 yers ar 1,100 years later that was not in the original text is not the word, we must diligently seek.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahanan/John 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:13, “The Mighty One of Aḇraham, and of Yitsḥaq, and of Ya‛aqoḇ, the Mighty One of our fathers, esteemed His Servant [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:36, “But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:39, “For I say to you, from now on you shall by no means see Me, until you say, ‘Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 118:26-27, “Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! We shall bless you from the House of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is Mighty, and He gave us light; Bind the Festival offering With cords to the horns of the Altar.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 21:9, "And the crowds who went before and those who followed cried out, saying, “Hoshia-na to the Son of Dawiḏ! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! Hoshia-na in the highest!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:28, “You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:19-20, “Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:44-50, “Then [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me should stay in darkness. And if anyone hears My Words but does not watch over them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day. Because I spoke not from Myself, but the Father who sent Me has given Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

i don't know what you're referring to in your post

here's the original question that i posed to another user

that other user seems to prefer the kjv

so that's the version I used

***********

in your view

which one is The Word which became Flesh*here

Psalm 110: 1. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The LORD
or
my Lord
or both?

***************