GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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i see taking God's name in vain this way


You must not use the name of the*Lord*your God thoughtlessly; theLord*will punish anyone who misuses his name.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20&version=NCV


No using the name of*God,*your God, in curses or silly banter;*God*won’t put up with the irreverent use of his name.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20&version=MSG
In addition saying God made something happen or will happen with men's actions and/or words. (overriding someone's free will.)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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That is correct. However, if I said God told me to murder my wife (I'm not married by the way) then it would be fair to ask,"which God told you that. Was it the "Word made flesh" who told you to kill your wife, or was it another God?
good point

i would see that as using God's name (reputation) thoughtlessly
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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There are 17 living adult members of believers, and their children, that I meet with frequently during the week, on all Holy days if we are all healthy, and every Sabbath of Jesus.
great again!

which holy days do you meet on?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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In addition saying God made something happen or will happen with men's actions and/or words. (overriding someone's free will.)
I'm not sure, but i think God may sometimes make something happen with people's actions

Isaiah 37: 29. Because of your raging against me, and because your arrogance has come up into my ears, therefore will I put my hook in your nose and my bridle in your lips, and I will turn you back by the way by which you came.
 

ELOHIMLOGOS

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2018
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Hello, I am interested in the sabbath. Can someone tell me how we keep the sabbath in the new covenant? Thanks
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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If you are New covenant believer then you keep the Sabbath every minute of every day...
Do you have Scriptual evidence for that beyond a vauge statement then an imaginated view added to it?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Do you have Scriptual evidence for that beyond a vauge statement then an imaginated view added to it?
Go and read Hebrews chapter 4...
Not that it will help you - you will have some weird take on it to "prove" something else!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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Hello, I am interested in the sabbath. Can someone tell me how we keep the sabbath in the new covenant? Thanks
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The intent of YHWH’s Sabbath is to keep it “set apart” to YHWH, this means doing His will. This is a general overview touching on a number of common topics and misconceptions concerning the Sabbath.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Sabbath (7[SUP]th[/SUP] day) was from creation, as shown above and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, it is the only Law/Command that sows it is from the Creator of all that is. Anyone can make a list of Laws for a clean lifestyle, but nobody but YHWH can make a Law that shows they are the Creator, and He did.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]set it apart” is word #H6942 - qadash: to be set apart or consecrated, Original Word: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]קָדַשׁ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: qadash, Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-dash'), Short Definition: consecrate[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath is one of the 10 Commandments, and we are told by YHWH to “remember” it, yet it seems to be the most forgotten Commandment:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labor, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Six days you labor, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day is for His will, we have 6 days to do our will. We are commended to “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.” The verse does not say “remember the Sabbath to physically rest” it says “to set it apart.” So then what does this mean?[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]set it apart” is word #H6942 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]קָדַשׁ [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]qadash (kaw-dash') v., 1. to be clean (ceremonially or morally)., 2. (causatively) to make, pronounce or observe as clean (ceremonially or morally)., [a primitive root], KJV: appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy(-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify(-ied one, self), X wholly. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions; - Original: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]קדשׁ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Transliteration: Qadash, Phonetic: kaw-dash', Definition: 1. to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahshua was doing the will of YHWH yet the Pharisees accused Him of sin;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

John 7:22-24, “Because of this Mosheh has given you the circumcision – though it is not from Mosheh, but from the fathers – and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the Torah of Mosheh should not be broken, are you wroth with Me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath? Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Why were they not sinning by breaking the Sabbath by “doing work” on the Sabbath? Because they are doing the will of YHWH, the true intent of the Sabbath day:

Isaiah 58:11-14, YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The true intent of the Sabbath day is not about only worshiping on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day, it is about doing His will and not doing our own will.

Mat 12:12, “And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath.”

This does not teach us to

A. Abolish the Sabbath

B. Change it to a different day

C. Make Jesus our Sabbath (sounds nice but it is not Scriptural)

D. Make every day the "Sabbath" as it is impossible, nobody can set apart every day as holy/set apart to YHWH. 1. Only YHWH can set apart a day, and YHWH did this at creation; Genesis 2:1-3, “...the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart...” 2. We have work, chores, errands, etc. While mowing the lawn, doing dishes, cleaning the bathroom, etc are not sin, they are also not the will of YHWH thus doing these things is not the will of YHWH, the 7th day Sabbath is set aside for the will of YHWH. Any who claim to set aside every day are not being honest and probably don't set aside any day as they clearly don't understand what it means.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 10:16, “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.”

Galatians 5:5-6, “For we, in Spirit, by belief, eagerly wait for the expectation of righteousness. For in Messiah
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but belief working through love."


1 Corinthians 7:19, The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Yah does matter!”

Yet the Sabbath was set apart at Creation:

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

This does not cancel out other Instructions from YHWH, it's purpose is to focus on Him and His Instructions. To use the Sabbath to cease from the remaining part of YHWH's Instructions (as the Pharisees did) is to break the intent of the Sabbath.

The 7th day Sabbath is STILL looking forward to the rest in Yah that none have yet entered, the rest Yahshua offers that none have yet entered.

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for which you also suffer, since [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

2 Peter 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

Rev 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and because of the Word of Ylohim, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

For Messiah said:

Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

Hebrews 4:10, “For he who has entered into His rest has also ceased from his own works*, as YHWH did from His*.

Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: *from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because *on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

The real rest, that the Sabbath looks forward to, that none have yet entered into is this:

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

It is a training tool for the will of Yah that makes us more like He wants us to be, and only those who are in His will enter the rest, in this life and the next.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Go and read Hebrews chapter 4...
Not that it will help you - you will have some weird take on it to "prove" something else!
Seems you ahve a pre disposition and are not able to consider anything than where you already stand, I have never met anyone that knows every truth...

Maybe you can elaborate on how Hebrews 4 means the Sabbath is every second of every day by showing where that principle is written? If you can not prove this through the word only I would say it is likely that it is you that have the “weird take on it” as you say I do…


I am able to present what I believe Hebrews 4 means using Scripture
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
You will not find a reference to the word "Sabbath" prior to Exodus 16:23!

It cannot be argued that the command to observe the Sabbath is eternal....
It is part of the Torah and a central part of the Sinaitic covenant.
Simply put - a New covenant believer has absolutely no obligation to the Torah which is part of the Sinaitic covenant...
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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You will not find a reference to the word "Sabbath" prior to Exodus 16:23!

It cannot be argued that the command to observe the Sabbath is eternal....
It is part of the Torah and a central part of the Sinaitic covenant.
Simply put - a New covenant believer has absolutely no obligation to the Torah which is part of the Sinaitic covenant...
So no you can not point to the passage you spoke of to prove your point but rather have to go in the direction of testifying against obedience to His commands?

The Commands/Law/Instructions/Torah is written on the heart of the believer:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

The same Commands Yahshua says will not pass:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, “I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, “I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.”

yet you find excuses and reasoning to say they have. It is the levitical priesthood that is no more, here I will show you:

If we simply look to the english word "change" we will completely miss it... but most do not care, none the less here it is:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, “Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed (#G3331), there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For the priesthood being changed (#G3331)”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the priesthood on earth, the Levite priesthood has been abolished, and the Priesthood in the heavens, carried out by Yahshua is established. This “change” or “metathesis” is a removal of one that is replaced by another.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest. This “change” or “metatithemi” is a transferral.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]


[/FONT]



Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]An oversimplified explanation of Hebrews 4 is that while the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath remains, it is pointing to the true rest that is the promise remains in the Messiah, that is entrance into the Kingdom of YHWH:[/FONT]




This shows that the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Commandment is not “done away” in any manner:


Mat 5:18, “I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, “I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.”



This shows that the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Commandment is not properly changed in any manner:


Daniyl 7:25, “And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…”


This shows Yahshua offers rest:


Mat 11:27-30, “All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”


This shows it is not His Commands that are heavy:


1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”


This shows what the true rest Yahshua offers is Scriptually:


Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write:Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”


Hebrews 4:1, “Therefore, since a promise remains of entering into His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.”
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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So no you can not point to the passage you spoke of to prove your point but rather have to go in the direction of testifying against obedience to His commands?
Oh puleeez!!!

Sanctimony on steroids....
A whole orchestra of violins must be playing...

No New covenant believer has ANY obligation to the Torah - pure and simple!
And the reason why is that the Torah is part of the Sinaitic covenant and no New covenant believer has anything to do with that covenant...
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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Oh puleeez!!!

Sanctimony on steroids....
A whole orchestra of violins must be playing...

No New covenant believer has ANY obligation to the Torah - pure and simple!
And the reason why is that the Torah is part of the Sinaitic covenant and no New covenant believer has anything to do with that covenant...
I suppose you know better that one who walked with the Messiah and learned from His teaching, and was one of His 3 main disciples of the 12 disciples...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Also I find it telling that you do not touch on the Scriptures I posted.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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An oversimplified explanation of Hebrews 4 is that while the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath remains, it is pointing to the true rest that is the promise remains in the Messiah, that is entrance into the Kingdom of YHWH:




This shows that the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Commandment is not “done away” in any manner:
Of course the 4th commandment is done away with - it is part of a covenant to which New covenant believers are NOT obligated to...

What one will find is that nine of the ten commands originally found in the decalogue find expression in the New covenant - the Sabbath is the CONSPICUOUS exception!
Why?
Hebrews chapter 4 explains that our true rest is indeed in Jesus Christ and nothing more!

Legalists love quoting Matthew 5:18 as apparent proof of their position...
However the only way to interpret Scripture is read the whole thing.
If Paul can write on several occasions that the Torah is no longer binding on New covenant, and Luke can document in Acts chapter 15 the narrative of the Jerusalem Council that makes it crystal clear that the Torah is not binding on New covenant believers then the legalists interpretation of Matt 5:18 must be wrong!

Clearly, whatever Jesus was referring to in Matt 5:18 has in fact been fulfilled in His death and resurrection!

Reams and reams of out of context texts can never substitute for decent exegesis and solid hermeneutics...
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I suppose you know better that one who walked with the Messiah and learned from His teaching, and was one of His 3 main disciples of the 12 disciples...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Also I find it telling that you do not touch on the Scriptures I posted.
Your interpretation only....
This text does not deal with the Torah!
Why don't you go and read vs 9-11!
That is what John is referencing and referring to as the old command.....

Again try some decent hermeneutics for once in your life!
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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I suppose you know better that one who walked with the Messiah and learned from His teaching, and was one of His 3 main disciples of the 12 disciples...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Also I find it telling that you do not touch on the Scriptures I posted.
Walk even as He walked. In regards to the Sabbath. Jesus went to synagogue on Sabbath and He ministered through GOD on the Sabbath.

No wiggling around that.