Not By Works
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Thank you for responding.
Firstly I would say if a person genuinely places their faith Jesus.
Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Then this is not just thinking is genuine believing faith.
Notice THE LORD JESUS and RAISED FROM THE DEAD.
When I baptise people I quote the above and ask them have you done this and believe it and made him Lord of your life.
Before I baptise them I disciple them as to what it means to make him Lord.
I have refused to baptise someone because they could not and would not confess that.
Yet I have baptised someone who when I came alongside because he was seeking could not confess that.
Then in one meeting he fell on his knees and confessed that and said very Jesus I need need you so much I want to be like you.
Secondly I disagree with you because genuine belief and confession is an automatic path to eternal life.
Thirdly I agree that it is the beginning of their journey but disagree to journey eternal life. Because they know they have eternal life.
Think about it, if it's a journey with no guarantee of eternal life what is the result of consequences?
What is it that God wants?
Works or relationship?
Jesus rejected those who claimed works because he never knew them.
Why would they be?
I did ask you what enduring to end means a few pages back but can't see an answer to that.
So I ask again.
You say Jesus assumes your belief will lead you love him and do the things he has asked us to do.
To me that limits Jesus, because he only assumes but does not know.
Therefore he does not know who will be saved. But this goes against
John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”
John 6:39-40
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Does not Jesus know the will of the Father?
So who are doers of the word, seems that Jesus rejected those who were doers of the word, yet those who he accepted questioned "When did we"
Are you quick to write off those that you classified as who thinks but do not bear fruit?
Or do you take time to come alongside and and understand and disciple?
Do you endorse fear that is not healthy, one that says 3 strikes and your out.
To be honest you come across like that. I could be wrong and am open to be corrected.
Jesus said "If you love me"
Jesus also said "God loves you as much as he loves me"
Our walk is relational.
It's not a formula.
If love is the focus would it leave the other in fear of rejection.
Finally love or works.
Works as a result of love or works to earn love.
Firstly I would say if a person genuinely places their faith Jesus.
Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Then this is not just thinking is genuine believing faith.
Notice THE LORD JESUS and RAISED FROM THE DEAD.
When I baptise people I quote the above and ask them have you done this and believe it and made him Lord of your life.
Before I baptise them I disciple them as to what it means to make him Lord.
I have refused to baptise someone because they could not and would not confess that.
Yet I have baptised someone who when I came alongside because he was seeking could not confess that.
Then in one meeting he fell on his knees and confessed that and said very Jesus I need need you so much I want to be like you.
Secondly I disagree with you because genuine belief and confession is an automatic path to eternal life.
Thirdly I agree that it is the beginning of their journey but disagree to journey eternal life. Because they know they have eternal life.
Think about it, if it's a journey with no guarantee of eternal life what is the result of consequences?
What is it that God wants?
Works or relationship?
Jesus rejected those who claimed works because he never knew them.
Why would they be?
I did ask you what enduring to end means a few pages back but can't see an answer to that.
So I ask again.
You say Jesus assumes your belief will lead you love him and do the things he has asked us to do.
To me that limits Jesus, because he only assumes but does not know.
Therefore he does not know who will be saved. But this goes against
John 18:8-9
8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”
John 6:39-40
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Does not Jesus know the will of the Father?
So who are doers of the word, seems that Jesus rejected those who were doers of the word, yet those who he accepted questioned "When did we"
Are you quick to write off those that you classified as who thinks but do not bear fruit?
Or do you take time to come alongside and and understand and disciple?
Do you endorse fear that is not healthy, one that says 3 strikes and your out.
To be honest you come across like that. I could be wrong and am open to be corrected.
Jesus said "If you love me"
Jesus also said "God loves you as much as he loves me"
Our walk is relational.
It's not a formula.
If love is the focus would it leave the other in fear of rejection.
Finally love or works.
Works as a result of love or works to earn love.
To have a clean start. Being born of the water (baptism of water) and being born of the spirit (the baptism the HG and fire) cleanses us from our former sins, and we are born again clean and fresh and ready to take upon us the name of Jesus Christ and ready to do his will. Now go out and be a branch on the vine of Jesus and produce fruit for the KOG.
No they are not the same, you are selling a self-righteous works gospel. By the way what Church are you associated with if I may ask. It would help many on this thread to understand your theological background, much appreciated.
Jesus answered,
Jesus answered,
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John14:6
John14:6
That is a good question and to be honest I have asked that question many times myself.
One is right and one is wrong.
One day we will find out but I do believe the answer will be revealed
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
It's all about building on Jesus.
And the truth is there are differences of opinion.
That is why I only post what I believe to be correct.
Just like we all do on this forum.
One is right and one is wrong.
One day we will find out but I do believe the answer will be revealed
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
It's all about building on Jesus.
And the truth is there are differences of opinion.
That is why I only post what I believe to be correct.
Just like we all do on this forum.
N
not true
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(use birth as an earthly example to help the lost Nicodemus who believed in works and didnt understand spiritual things to explain something spiritual to him)
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(again further explaining the two births.... flesh = water Spirit = God)
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(use birth as an earthly example to help the lost Nicodemus who believed in works and didnt understand spiritual things to explain something spiritual to him)
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(again further explaining the two births.... flesh = water Spirit = God)
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
N
even nicodemus understood the first birth is literal....
he just suggested the second being physical is a ridiculous idea
(which is true... water baptism isnt birth)
born
born again water baptism?
born again again spirit?
and you still need to maintain your own salvation?
and id you fail you would need to be born again again again?
no....
thats not it
just like we cant decide we will be born the first time
we cannot choose to be born again through will power or works
this happens by grace through faith
and faith in itself is a gift
john 6 :44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
ALL glory to God
he just suggested the second being physical is a ridiculous idea
(which is true... water baptism isnt birth)
born
born again water baptism?
born again again spirit?
and you still need to maintain your own salvation?
and id you fail you would need to be born again again again?
no....
thats not it
just like we cant decide we will be born the first time
we cannot choose to be born again through will power or works
this happens by grace through faith
and faith in itself is a gift
john 6 :44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
ALL glory to God
Last edited by a moderator:
Amen and regardless of the particular application of 1st Corinthian 3.....every man's work will be tried and rewarded accordingly....SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE are not in question and not jeopardy ....once a son by birth (faith alone) always a son by birth...eternal and everlasting mean exactly that.....not temporary!
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I have spent so much off my Christian life doing the Hokey Cokey dance.
In out in out shake it all about.
So did Jesus pen the Hokey Cockey dance?
Today you are in, tomorrow you are out.
It's 12 and you are in, it's 12:30 now you are out.
Think about it.
Endure to the end.
I endured to 12, slipped up at 12:29.
Jesus returns at 12:30.
At 12 I placed my faith in Jesus and he returned at 12:30 but I was not baptised.
Woe to the Pharisees
In out in out shake it all about.
So did Jesus pen the Hokey Cockey dance?
Today you are in, tomorrow you are out.
It's 12 and you are in, it's 12:30 now you are out.
Think about it.
Endure to the end.
I endured to 12, slipped up at 12:29.
Jesus returns at 12:30.
At 12 I placed my faith in Jesus and he returned at 12:30 but I was not baptised.
Woe to the Pharisees
The scripture you refer to is:
John 3:3
3 [FONT="]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[/FONT]You will notice that this scripture does not say "if you are born again you will be given eternal life automatically".
Jesus only says that if you are not born again you will not see the KOG. There is an obvious implication that if you are born again you will see the KOG. But now we have to argue with each other about:
1) what does it mean to be born again?
2) what is being born of the water?
3) what is being born of the spirit?
4) does it take someone with some authority to born you again?
5) is being born again the only requirement to be given eternal life? It is said that all you have to do is believe?
So do you see the dilemma with your simple statement of born again =eternal life?
John 3:3
3 [FONT="]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[/FONT]You will notice that this scripture does not say "if you are born again you will be given eternal life automatically".
Jesus only says that if you are not born again you will not see the KOG. There is an obvious implication that if you are born again you will see the KOG. But now we have to argue with each other about:
1) what does it mean to be born again?
2) what is being born of the water?
3) what is being born of the spirit?
4) does it take someone with some authority to born you again?
5) is being born again the only requirement to be given eternal life? It is said that all you have to do is believe?
So do you see the dilemma with your simple statement of born again =eternal life?
How hard is it to grasp the following....
FAITH ALONE IS WHAT SAVES A MAN
A man is SAVED BEFORE ONE WORK OR FRUIT IS PRODUCED
BY FAITH ALONE INTO THE SON A MAN HAS DONE THE WORK OF THE FATHER
Saved children of God must GROW AND MATURE TO PRODUCE after SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE
SALVATION IS ETERNAL AND A CURRENT POSSESSION at moment of BELIEF and cannot be gained or lost based upon performance, works or deeds which ARE REWARDED ACCORDINGLY
IT IS CHRIST THAT PRODUCES THROUGH US HE GETS ALL THE GLORY
AND LASTLY
The saved will have every flavor and gambit of work found in their lives....both good and bad...that which is not of faith is Sin!!
FAITH ALONE IS WHAT SAVES A MAN
A man is SAVED BEFORE ONE WORK OR FRUIT IS PRODUCED
BY FAITH ALONE INTO THE SON A MAN HAS DONE THE WORK OF THE FATHER
Saved children of God must GROW AND MATURE TO PRODUCE after SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE
SALVATION IS ETERNAL AND A CURRENT POSSESSION at moment of BELIEF and cannot be gained or lost based upon performance, works or deeds which ARE REWARDED ACCORDINGLY
IT IS CHRIST THAT PRODUCES THROUGH US HE GETS ALL THE GLORY
AND LASTLY
The saved will have every flavor and gambit of work found in their lives....both good and bad...that which is not of faith is Sin!!
Maybe in your mind which is why the correct message alludes you....even if it was in glowing 20 foot neon letters in front of your face you would still miss it due to your religion......God inspired everything I referenced.....try opening your eyes to it....faith into the Son = eternal life, eternal salvation, eternal justification and sanctification in Christ positionally!