in what sense?
Back to my question, are you dead ?
What do you mean in your post #8656
you say dead person can not obey or disobey.
who is dead person in your statement, it that refer to yourself?
GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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in what sense?
Back to my question, are you dead ?
What do you mean in your post #8656
you say dead person can not obey or disobey.
who is dead person in your statement, it that refer to yourself?
Why don't you obey? I'm trying to help people see the importance of obedience to the 10 commandments. The penalties were part of the politics that God gave Moses for the people of Israel to follow. We know that the laws of ordinance were finished at the cross (sacrifices and feasts), and if we truely become the people of God today we should study the politics and practice many of them (not the ordinances that Christ fulfilled). But that does not change the principles of the 10 commandments (This is why the new covenant was given).
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
It is no longer a nation that tells us what the law is or a law wriiten on stone but a law written on our hearts.
The Law (10) has not changed
The Law of God in the New Testament.
1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).
Did Jesus abolish God's law while He was here on earth?
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law. … I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. … Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:17, 18).
No, indeed! Jesus specifically asserted that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill (or keep) it. Instead of doing away with the law, Jesus magnified it (Isaiah 42:21) as the perfect guide for holy living. For example, Jesus pointed out that “You shall not murder” condemns anger “without a cause” (Matthew 5:21, 22) and hatred (1 John 3:15), and that lust is a form of adultery (Matthew 5:27, 28). He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).
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1. You say the law of ordinance has been fulfill. What do you mean by the law of ordinance. Read definition of ordinance 1b.
ordonance is a law. So the law of ordinance mean the law of law. To me it is wrong terminology.
Definition of ordinance
1a : an authoritative decree or direction : order
- On that day the king signed three ordinances.
b : a law set forth by a governmental authority; specifically : a municipal regulation
- A city ordinance forbids construction work to start before 8 a.m.
2: something ordained or decreed by fate or a deity
- Let ordinance come as the gods foresay [=foretell] it.
- —William Shakespeare
3: a prescribed usage, practice, or ceremony
- observes the ordinanceof abstinence during Lent
You
2. You say 10 commandment not fulfill, show me specific verse that directly say 10 commandment not fulfill
i will show you all law has been fulfill
matt 22
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
you think the 10 c not fulfill because it say not worship idol and the New Covenant say not worship idol.
but Jesus say all law hang on that 2 commandment.
it's mean in the New Covenant we not worship idol not because we are under 10 c, but we are under matt 22:40
because if we love God, we not going to worship idol
You are on this forum preaching about the God of God and you don't know these things?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Since you are interested in the law here are all 613 rules in the law and a discussion about them. This is the law Jesus said will last until heaven and earth disappear.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
According to Jesus the law endures forever.
Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Sin is transgression of the law.
We all sin.
The penalty of sin is death at judgement.
Accepting Jesus as our savior removes the penalty of the law.
You are wacko posting this in response to a post having a person stoned to death as a penalty for committing a major sin. He was put to death for his sin. He didn't die first!!! Like I said wacko!
I referred to my post in a post to Studyman. Look more carefully at the posts that reply to other posts.
you are predictable. You avoid to answer my question and make a statement to make me like stupid.
The reality is one that can not answer the question is the one.
you say the dead can not obey or not obey the law,
are you the dead?
simple question why afraid to answer? Afraid look stupid, than accused me stupid? Be honest if you do not want people think you are stupid.
Let me ask a plain question...
Is there a law or laws that we should obey today? Yes - what are they? No. - OK??
Please be simple in your answer. simple question?
romans 6:14
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Does that verse erase 1 John 5:2-3?
Are you twisting Paul's words?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul (Paul) wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,"
DO you preach what the Messiah says is loving Him?
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
or are you preaching against that?
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]
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Am I twisting Paul word?
I am quote Paul word not twisting.
Please explain what Romans 3:28 mean.
If God says "Do not kill" and then goes on to say, do not kill your neighbor, do not kill your brother, do not kill you father, do not kill your sister. Is this one law or 5? I believe it is one law with clear instructions on how to keep it. But you could say it was 5 laws if you wanted to twist the words to imply a greater number than actually exists.
I will argue that there is not now, nor has there ever been 613 laws for a man to follow, ever. That this myth, this fallacy was created by the "Many" who come in Christ's name, who preach that the Word which became Flesh was so unjust, so mean, so awful that He created instructions that are so many in number that no man could possible keep them, and then killed these poor innocent souls who didn't keep them.
These preachers further the doctrine which implies that Jesus came to earth to save all of us innocent beings, who are only doing what we were created to do, from the Wrath and the Word's of this unjust, mean and out of control God and His unjust, unrealistic expectations.
I don't believe in this preaching.
Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Jackson is trying to make the case that if I believe in the Sabbath that Jesus created, that He created for me, that I must also stone others to death who don't believe in the Sabbath of the Lord.
Paul said he died when the commandment came. He said it, not me.
How did the commandment come to Paul? Was it not through the congregation of Israel? Moses, Joshua, Isaiah? Are these all not Spiritual "Stones" of the Most High? Did these not Spiritually "stone" Paul to death? Is this not the death Paul speaks of?
Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
It seems that you are preaching that if I desire from my heart to Honor the Word which became Flesh by observing His Sabbath that He created for me, as directed in the Law and Prophets, that I must also murder, by stoning, those who reject His Sabbath.
I do think this preaching is stupid. Not because of my own thoughts, but because of what the Bible teaches.
Paul said God's Commandments came and he died. I asked you before "how did Paul die?" Who killed him?
But you ignore my questions and continue on with, what I think is a non-Biblical and frankly stupid argument, that in order to honor God with obedience to His Sabbath Commandment I must also judge others and stone them to death.
The answer to your question, in my opinion, is in Paul's statements.
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
"But when the Commandment came, I died".
I believe Spiritually speaking, that Paul was killed by the same Spiritual force that killed the man for refusing to accept the Instructions of the Word which became Flesh in the Old Testament. "The Wages of sin is death"
What do you preach are the "works or deeds of the law" that existed which dealt with the atonement of sins are?
Was it "thou shall not steal"? Was there an OT law that said; "If you sin, "don't steal" and your sins are forgiven?
No there wasn't.
But there was a law that said; "if you sin, take a turtle dove to the Levite Priest and he will perform ceremonial, sacrificial "works" to atone for your sins.
Paul explains;
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
What is the difference between the "Law of Works" and the "Law of Faith"?
Regarding the Law of Works performed by Levite Priests.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by(Law of) faith without the deeds of the law.
But of the "Law of faith" Paul speaks in this wise.
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
And again:
1 cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Shouldn't we consider these scriptures as well?
