Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

eternally-gratefull · Apr 17, 2018

amazingly, those who post that the law shows us how to be morally upright people (not for what it was designed to do, which is show our guilt) are the ones teaching against the law. Not those standing up for the law as written.

sadly, it will be to your own detriment, not ours.

Magenta · Apr 17, 2018

posthuman said:

This is good to know, for cream soda is an abomination

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PS · Apr 17, 2018

Shamah said:

The passage you quoted is to the ignorant and unstable people who explain scripture falsely and put the law before Jesus. If the cap fits, wear it.

2Pe 3:15-18
(15) Look on our Lord's patience as the opportunity he is giving you to be saved, just as our dear friend Paul wrote to you, using the wisdom that God gave him.

(16) This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction.

(17) But you, my friends, already know this. Be on your guard, then, so that you will not be led away by the errors of lawless people and fall from your safe position.

(18) But continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, now and forever! Amen.

Jackson123 · Apr 17, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

ok, I am sorry, I missed one, So james spoke of two aspects of the law. thus he taught the whole law. Ok.
You still do not get it, When you teach mulctiplication tables. You teach the WHOLE THING, you do not just MENTION a few things from it.

Your right, Paul did tell us what the law was USEFUL FOR. in fact he told us why we were given the law

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

It is simple. if you can not read here what the law was useful for. Thats on you.

If you think you are stil under the tutor. all I can assume through scripture is you still have YET to come to christ.

James used scripture to show those who had not yet come to christ, Yes, He was trying to use the tutor to those who needed it. (hearers of the word not doers of the word. ) but he was NOT teaching law.

If you still need the tutor. You have yet to place your faith in christ. and I suggest you repent.

interesting verse, can you show me, what letter is from and what chapter, like Romans, or chorinthians?

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

The law was our tutor to bring us to Christ. Yes, now how many knew and know the law well enough to have been brought to Him? Those who have studied and know the law!

When we come to Christ we know just how many hundreds of the law are no more because He has fulfilled the, but no living disciple has had the law completely fuflilled in him or her until God dfinishes the work He alone does in us, that work He began when we first called upon HIm for Salvation in Jesus Christ.

There are yet those laaws on behavior that cannot be fulfilled until all men, blievers, have been made perfect, and you will be perfect for our Maker is perfect.......this is not just a command, it is a promise.

Jackson123 said:

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

You have an up side down doctrine;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

graceNpeace · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

Honestly, if you really believe this, then you will believe anything!

Nobody I know, including myself, knew the Torah when we came to Christ....
We knew we were sinners yes, but no knowledge of the Torah!

This ridiculous assertion that only those who know the Torah come to Jesus is just utter nonsense!

I have witnessed to people who had never even heard of Jesus Christ prior to me speaking, never mind what a Jew was, and definitely not what the Torah was!
Yet, they came to Christ because they knew that they were sinners - al apart from the Torah!

This knowledge of sinfulness came from the Genesis chapter 3 (something we all share - whether we have actually read it for ourselves or not) not Exodus to Deuteronomy...

Honestly, some of the things said on this forum would be really funny if they weren't so tragic...

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

but after faith come we are no longer under the tutor/law.

so we are not under 4th command anymore.

That is mean, when we not kill, or steal, not because we are under the 10 commandment but because we are under the faith.

in other word, faith in Jesus change us to be like Jesus.

Fruits tell what kind of trees. If the fruits is love, mean the tree is Jesus.

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

graceNpeace said:

Yet Paul who trained under Gamaliel, could recite verbatim the entire Torah from memory alone, a requirement to study under Gamaliel...

Virtually Every Israylite knew it, in the day this was written anyone born in Israyl knew the Law... It is a Law to read the Law in the town square every 7 years and all citiziens are supposed to be there to hear it...

This is why:

Romans 3:1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.

oracles are LIVING WORDS.

now of course gentiles do not know it, or most didn't, samaritans had the same Torah but with 183 alterations for example, but most gentiles probably did not know it, if it was an advantage to know it, that means it is a disadvantage not to know it.

I grew up not knowing it and when I asked I was told it was for the Jews only, until I read the word for myself...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

Jackson123 said:

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Honestly I believe Jesus Christ. No one here who claims to believe Him saying they love and they live in grace seems to hear what He teaches on the law, how He has freed us completely form its curse yet there remain some, those that are contained in Love, we must never stop using as our guide to perfection. No we do not perfect ourselves, but we must not resist God' perfecting us, and His word is theWay in Christ. Man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God, amen.

Now be honest and understand the Word from God, that is Jesus.

graceNpeace said:

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Where did you learn from Jesus that any of the commandments are null and void? This is a teaching of men fast becoming a tradition of men. This teaching cannot be found in the Word, only some vague references to what you have poste.

Until heaven and earth pass away the law, according to the freedom afforded byour Lord, will be. Anyone teaching against the least of these laws will be least in the Kingdom, and that is eternal.

I hatge to even entertain what it will be for those who teach against all of them.

Jackson123 said:

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

Shamah said:

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

So do you not agree, with apostle Paul, that after faith in Jesus, we no longer under the law?

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

No one here is saying obedience is being under the law. No one, because he obeys Jesus Christ is under the law, yet we all need Him as our Mediator ..........as Paul teaches.

Do you have Him as a Mediator? Do you know what this means.? Does sin not exist for believers?

It is the curse of the law, death, from which we all have been freed, so in that aspect we are free indeed.......do not use this as license to sin.

Reread Ephesians...........

Jackson123 said:

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

so you not agree with apostle Paul that say after faith we are no longer under the law?
before heaven and earth pass the law not pass, is that mean after faith we are under the law?
Where did you learn from that before heaven pass the law never pass, mean after faith we stillunder the law.

the law not pass for people that did not have faith in Jesus. Not pass but not apply for the people that have faith in Jesus

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Either you did not read my post or you are just not able to understand it.....this is quite frequent with thhose who push disobedience as a way being "free." I live in the grace of God, and His mercy is always upon me because of His Lamb, Jesus Christ, MY Savior.......now do not continue with our oblique and feigned understanding.....it is quite transparant. I always understand you folks, and believe me what I understand fro you is not what the Light shows me in Jesus Christ.

Jackson123 said:

Gabriel2020 · Apr 18, 2018

Scripture tell you that the old law is not for the righteous ,but for sinners. There is another law that we are under, and that is the perfect law of liberty. JAMES; 1; 25.

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

just answere my simple question dear, are you agree with apostle Paul that say, after faith we no longer under the law or not?

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

You have said it. "The old law." I have also said it. Learn the way Jesus has clarified the law. Do not worry, there are not that many of them remaining.......He has fulfilled the majority making them no longer valid, however He is yet fulfilling the law in all who know Him. Do not say you do not sin. You may say God does not hold the guilt of your sin against you providing you know this......

Gabriel2020 said:

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

eternally-gratefull

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