Not By Works

Nehemiah6 · Apr 14, 2018

On what basis do you say that the Apostles Creed "adds"words to the Bible. It is merely a summation of Christian beliefs.

Book of Common Prayer, 1662 (Church of England)

I believe in God the Father Almighty,

Maker of heaven and earth:

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,

Born of the Virgin Mary,

Suffered under Pontius Pilate,

Was crucified, dead, and buried:

He descended into hell;

The third day he rose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,

And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;

From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;

The holy Catholick Church; [catholic = universal]

The Communion of Saints;

The Forgiveness of sins;

The Resurrection of the body,

And the Life everlasting.

Amen.

There is nothing stated here which cannot be backed up with Scripture.

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

You actually believe that reciting the Memorizes APOSTLES CREED, makes you a real Christian?

NOT EVEN CLOSE, I used to RATTLE OFF the APOSTLES CREED, from the time I understood the words, by memory, BUT I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DID NOT SAVE ME. I was NOT BORN AGAIN, until after 3 attempts at suicide, in the last week of 1977, when I was almost 29 years old. A wave of MOURNING OVER MY UTTER SINFULNESS FOR MY WHOLE LIFESTYLE, washed over me, again, and again. I was BEGGING TO BE FORGIVEN, over, and over again, while I surrendered totally to JESUS CHRIST, out of LOVE FOR HIM.

THAT IS THE FIRST TIME I EVER KNEW THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD COME INTO TO ME.

That NIGHT AFTER A THIRD ATTEMPT AT SUICIDE, I KNEW that if I did not turn around right there and then, I WAS WALKING INTO HADES/HELL of my own accord. And that thought was the most TERRIFYING experience of my whole life. I WAS LITERALLY STANDING IN THE GATES OF HADES/HELL, AND IT WAS SO REAL. I was weeping like a baby, as I mourned over my UTTERLY SINFUL lifestyle.

I was still weeping and crying: "LORD FOR GIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, you have to come into me and do it, because I cannot do it. I am making a total mess of running my life." NO ONE IN THE LUTHERAN CHURCH ever taught me to pray that prayer; I absolutely believe the HOLY SPIRIT gave me that PRAYER when I NEEDED IT MOST. It was a loving TOTAL surrender to Jesus Christ, and I KNEW I WOULD NOT EVER TAKE IT BACK.

We are not talking about Sonship, nor even Fellowship with my buddy Jesus. WE ARE TALKING about GENUINE BORN AGAIN, SALVATION.

When have you ever Mourned over your UTTER SINFULNESS?

When have you ever Surrendered out of LOVE, to Jesus Christ?

Your memorized APOSTLES CREED, does not SAVE YOU; I tried it.

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

You actually believe that reciting the Memorizes APOSTLES CREED, makes you a real Christian?

NOT EVEN CLOSE, I used to RATTLE OFF the APOSTLES CREED, from the time I understood the words, by memory, BUT I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DID NOT SAVE ME. I was NOT BORN AGAIN, until after 3 attempts at suicide, in the last week of 1977, when I was almost 29 years old. A wave of MOURNING OVER MY UTTER SINFULNESS FOR MY WHOLE LIFESTYLE, washed over me, again, and again. I was BEGGING TO BE FORGIVEN, over, and over again, while I surrendered totally to JESUS CHRIST, out of LOVE FOR HIM.

THAT IS THE FIRST TIME I EVER KNEW THE HOLY SPIRIT HAD COME INTO TO ME.

That NIGHT AFTER A THIRD ATTEMPT AT SUICIDE, I KNEW that if I did not turn around right there and then, I WAS WALKING INTO HADES/HELL of my own accord. And that thought was the most TERRIFYING experience of my whole life. I WAS LITERALLY STANDING IN THE GATES OF HADES/HELL, AND IT WAS SO REAL. I was weeping like a baby, as I mourned over my UTTERLY SINFUL lifestyle.

I was still weeping and crying: "LORD FOR GIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, you have to come into me and do it, because I cannot do it. I am making a total mess of running my life." NO ONE IN THE LUTHERAN CHURCH ever taught me to pray that prayer; I absolutely believe the HOLY SPIRIT gave me that PRAYER when I NEEDED IT MOST. It was a loving TOTAL surrender to Jesus Christ, and I KNEW I WOULD NOT EVER TAKE IT BACK.

We are not talking about Sonship, nor even Fellowship with my buddy Jesus. WE ARE TALKING about GENUINE BORN AGAIN, SALVATION.

When have you ever Mourned over your UTTER SINFULNESS?

When have you ever Surrendered out of LOVE, to Jesus Christ?

Your memorized APOSTLES CREED, does not SAVE YOU; I tried it.

Being born again means having received the Holy Spirit.

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

<><.t.><>

You Say that (in the red above) as if it is a SHORCUT or SUBSTITUDE for reading the WORD OF GOD for yourself, and SUBMITTING to be Taught the WORD. There is NO PLAN of SALVATION IN APOSTLES CREED, NO Mourning over your SIN, NO Confession, and NO receiving JESUS as LORD (meaning MASTER). It is JUST an intellectual acknowledgement of the FACTS, and NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT those facts MUST BE IN YOUR HEART (human Spirit) TO BE REAL.

That is NOT Feeding on the WORD, as JESUS TOLD PETER TO DO THREE TIMES.

That in my opinion, is a lazy way to feel good about yourself, while YOU do not STUDY HIS WORD.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they are doing evil.

Deuteronomy 30:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may follow it.

Psalm 143:8 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love, for I have put my trust in you. Show me the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul.

Isaiah 34:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You nations, come here and listen; you peoples, pay attention! Let the earth hear, and all that fills it, the world and all that comes from it.

Luke 8:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.

Psalm 119:140 (HCSB)
[SUP]140 [/SUP] Your word is completely pure, and Your servant loves it.

Why are you so intent on looking for shortcuts to studying the word?

Do you not LOVE the Word of GOD?

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

<><.t.><>

You Say that (in the red above) as if it is a SHORCUT or SUBSTITUDE for reading the WORD OF GOD for yourself, and SUBMITTING to be Taught the WORD. There is NO PLAN of SALVATION IN APOSTLES CREED, NO Mourning over your SIN, NO Confession, and NO receiving JESUS as LORD (meaning MASTER). It is JUST an intellectual acknowledgement of the FACTS, and NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT those facts MUST BE IN YOUR HEART (human Spirit) TO BE REAL.

That is NOT Feeding on the WORD, as JESUS TOLD PETER TO DO THREE TIMES.

That in my opinion, is a lazy way to feel good about yourself, while YOU do not STUDY HIS WORD.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they are doing evil.

Deuteronomy 30:14 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may follow it.

Psalm 143:8 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love, for I have put my trust in you. Show me the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul.

Isaiah 34:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You nations, come here and listen; you peoples, pay attention! Let the earth hear, and all that fills it, the world and all that comes from it.

Luke 8:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.

Psalm 119:140 (HCSB)
[SUP]140 [/SUP] Your word is completely pure, and Your servant loves it.

Why are you so intent on looking for shortcuts to studying the word?

Do you not LOVE the Word of GOD?

Being sorry over sins won't save you. Those in Luke 8:14 were saved, but did not grow fast.

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

Ummmmm, you might want to rethink your stance.....just a quick scan and at least three are false and or not supported by scripture.....

Jesus is the creator <--ALL things created by him and for him

Jesus did not go to hell<---Abraham's bosom, paradise

Churches<--In heaven is the church, on the earth CHURCHES as in PLURAL and individual autonomous bodies with equal right and standing before the throne

Nehemiah6 · Apr 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

There is no question that Jesus is the Creator. But in Genesis 1 & 2 we read that ELOHIM = God = the triune Godhead is also the Creator. And that is what is being referred to. Nothing false about that, since the triune Godhead had a Divine "conference" and said "Let US make man in OUR image, and in OUR likeness".

Correct. But the King James Bible uses the word "hell" for Sheol/Hades also, and that is why the same word is used here. Scripture has Christ saying "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Acts 2:27)

The creed does NOT say "churches" but "the holy Catholic [universal] Church". The Body of Christ is indeed the Church, although the RCC would interpret this as the Roman Catholic Church.

I don't believe anyone can make any serious objection to this Creed. While evangelicals and fundamentalists are not "creedal" they should not make false allegations about the Apostles Creed. It is simply a summation of Bible truth. But we know that there is much more to Gospel Truth.

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 2:25-28, “For Dawiḏ says concerning Him, ‘I saw [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]before me continually, because He is at my right hand, in order that I should not be shaken. For this reason my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad, and now my flesh shall also rest in expectation, because You shall not leave my being in She’ol, nor shall You give Your Lovingly-committed One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life, You shall fill me with joy in Your presence.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is a direct quote from Psalm 16:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 16:8-11, “I have set [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]always before me; Because He is at my right hand I am not shaken. Therefore my heart was glad, and my esteem rejoices; My flesh also dwells in safety. For You do not leave my being in She’ol, Neither let Your Lovingly-committed One see corruption. You show me the path of life; In Your presence is joy to satisfaction; At Your right hand are pleasures forever.[/FONT]

“” [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is word #H7585[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]she’ôl she’ôl[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sheh-ole', sheh-ole'[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates:—grave, hell, pit[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]How is it that He would not be left in “She’ol”?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because He was resurrected:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 9:22, "saying, “The Son of Aḏam has to suffer much, and to be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised the third day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:39-40, “But He answering, said to them, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Yonah. For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 2:14-36, "14 But Kĕpha, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said to them, “Men of Yehuḏah and all those dwelling in Yerushalayim, let this be known to you, and listen closely to my words.15 “For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, since it is only the third hour of the day.16 “But this is what was spoken by the prophet Yo’ĕl:17 ‘And it shall be in the last days, says the Mighty One, that I shall pour out of My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams,18 and also on My male servants and on My female servants I shall pour out My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy.19 ‘And I shall show wonders in the heaven above and signs in the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke.20 ‘The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and splendid day of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall be saved.’ (Joel 2:28-32) 22 “Men of Yisra’ĕl, hear these words: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of Natsareth, a Man from the Mighty One, having been pointed out to you by mighty works, and wonders, and signs which the Mighty One did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know,23 this One, given up by the set purpose and foreknowledge of the Mighty One, you have impaled and put to death through the hands of lawless men –24 “Him the Mighty One raised up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was impossible that He could be held in its grip.25 “For Dawiḏ says concerning Him, ‘I saw [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]before me continually, because He is at my right hand, in order that I should not be shaken.26 ‘For this reason my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad, and now my flesh shall also rest in expectation,27 because You shall not leave my being in She’ol, nor shall You give Your Lovingly-committed One to see corruption.28 ‘You have made known to me the ways of life, You shall fill me with joy in Your presence.’ (Psa 16:8-11) 29 “Men and brothers, let me speak boldly to you of the ancestor Dawiḏ, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being a prophet, then, and knowing that the Mighty One had sworn with an oath to him: of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Messiah to sit on his throne,31 foreseeing this he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah, that His being was neither left in She’ol, nor did His flesh see corruption.32 “the Mighty One has raised up this [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], of which we are all witnesses.33 “Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of the Mighty One, and having received from the Father the promise of the Set-apart Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.34 “For Dawiḏ did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself said, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand,35 until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” (Psa 110:1) 36 “Therefore let all the house of Yisra’ĕl know for certain that the Mighty One has made this [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], whom you impaled, both Master and Messiah.”[/FONT]

VCO · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

Explain how you think you have born again?

I mean give me the details.

LW97 · Apr 14, 2018

VCO said:

By believing the Gospel

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

That is what is commonly taught and believed but I think Scripture shows a different picture:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:27-28, “And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto salvation.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 3:3-6, “Yahshua answered, and said to him: Truly, truly, I say to you: Unless a man is reborn from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of YHWH. Nicodemus said to Him; How can a man be reborn when he is old? Can he enter the womb of his mother the second time, and be born? Yahshua answered: Truly, truly, I say to you: “Unless a man is begotten of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHWH. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; but that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is born again;
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 1:23, “Having been begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of Yah, which lives and remains forever.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]we shall be changed[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

what most [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]people[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] consider born again is actually this [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](a renewed Spirit, His Spirit upon us)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif];

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]by the Spirit which He gave us[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I will put My Spirit within you[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]put a new spirit within you[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I will put My Law ([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Torah/Instructions[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 21:28, “Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:21-22, “For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The second birth or being reborn is in reality receiving a spirit body that is eternal in incorruptible, as shown above. What most people think is as being born again is actually being given a new heart;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 1:22, “Who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 24:7, “And I shall give them a heart to know Me, that I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength, for they shall turn back to Me with all their heart.”[/FONT]

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

LW97 said:

That is what is commonly taught and believed but I think Scripture shows a different picture:

Hebrews 9:27-28, “And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto salvation.”

John 3:3-6, “Yahshua answered, and said to him: Truly, truly, I say to you: Unless a man is reborn from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of YHWH. Nicodemus said to Him; How can a man be reborn when he is old? Can he enter the womb of his mother the second time, and be born? Yahshua answered: Truly, truly, I say to you: “Unless a man is begotten of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHWH. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; but that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.”

This is born again;

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”

1 Peter 1:23, “Having been begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of Yah, which lives and remains forever.”

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

what most people consider born again is actually this (a renewed Spirit, His Spirit upon us);

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Luke 21:28, “Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Mat 24:21-22, “For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened.”

Mat:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

The second birth or being reborn is in reality receiving a spirit body that is eternal in incorruptible, as shown above. What most people think is as being born again is actually being given a new heart;

2 Corinthians 1:22, “Who also sealed us, and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Jeremiah 24:7, “And I shall give them a heart to know Me, that I am יהוה. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength, for they shall turn back to Me with all their heart.”

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2018

More false cafe blend pseudo salvation of faith blended with law keeping....Galatians deems that view false with no power.....geesh

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2018

Shamah said:

This verse used out of context to prove some ignorant point about keeping the law has no bearing on the truth that I have posted....and exactly why you push a false dogma of law blended with faith to gain or keep salvation....

Are you a law keeper or law breaker....? How about a simple answer.....

I can tell you....you are a law breaker and have never kept the law.....

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

any verse you dont accept is simply "out of context" huh?

you are an accuser. You ask me everytime if I sin and have broken the Law, and every time I say yes I have. Does man then overthow YHWH righteous command or then ignore?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]it funny you say "out of context" but you quite Luke 16:16 as evidence the Law is no more, yet the next verse shows it is...

[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Apr 14, 2018

Shamah said:

any verse you dont accept is simply "out of context" huh?

you are an accuser. You ask me everytime if I sin and have broken the Law, and every time I say yes I have. Does man then overthow YHWH righteous command or then ignore?

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

it funny you say "out of context" but you quite Luke 16:16 as evidence the Law is no more, yet the next verse shows it is...

Now your lying....I have never said the law is no more....but that it is in force and deems ALL guilty and no man keeps it and it points to the only cure...the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith....get your facts straight lawyer....

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

dcontroversal said:

so are we to follow it or not?

because if it is still in force but we are not supposed to follow it then it is essentially done away to believers

Shamah · Apr 14, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

TruthTalk · Apr 14, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

I am saying the entire Apostles Creed is an addition to the Bible. It must be recited as a ritual and part of the liturgy. If you deny the validity of the Apostles Creed you will be frowned upon by the majority of your congregation and/or denomination.

And I resent saying or repeating any Creed that swears allegiance to the Catholic Church, and there is no "universal church", there is only the Church the Body of Christ. Notwithstanding most liturgical churches agree with and participate in the, Ecumenical movement, the forerunner of a "One Word Church", the Catholic Church being the head/leader.

Backed up by scripture or not, is not the issue, the issue is saying or repeating a creed that I choose to not participate in, if this is how and with whom you wish to worship be my guest.

The Apostles' Creed

(as usually recited today)

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Amen.

Not By Works

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member