GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Shamah]

the issue isn't whether Jesus told us beforehand he was going to do it

it's that there was one instruction at one time and a different instruction at another time

No His teachings did not change, He taught to differnt people at different times but the content is the same. Sending His disciples to the gentiles is not a change in content, Yahshua had to build up a strong base of people to teach His doctrine to then take it to the world.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

Then God said, “I am giving you every plant on the face of the whole earth that produces its own seeds. I am giving you every tree that has fruit with seeds in it. All of them will be given to you for food.*

that's one instruction

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. I have already given you the green plants for food. Now I am giving you everything.

4*“But you must not eat meat that still has blood in it.*

an altered instruction

i can't see a prophecy regarding the alteration beforehand

 

[Dan_473]

No His teachings did not change, He taught to differnt people at different times but the content is the same. Sending His disciples to the gentiles is not a change in content, Yahshua had to build up a strong base of people to teach His doctrine to then take it to the world.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

i think
Don't go to the gentiles

Do go to the gentiles

is a change in content

also Don't take a purse

Do take a purse

 

[Cee]

Then you claim there is no law? I believe you misunderstand the issue. Jesus said the law will endure until heaven and earth disappear. If you admit to sinning you are admitting to breaking the law. As the Bible states, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." What Jesus did on the cross is allowing all who sin escape the penalty of sin by accepting Him as their savior!!

No, I believe you're misunderstanding the issue. I didn't saw the law didn't exist. I said *I'm* not under it. I'm dead to it. You MIGHT be under it, but I hope not. Because if you are you're not in Christ. Do you think Christ is UNDER the Law?

Are you living for God or for the Law?

Galatians 2:19 For through the Law I died to the Law so that I might live to God.

 

[Shamah]

i think
Don't go to the gentiles

Do go to the gentiles

is a change in content

also Don't take a purse

Do take a purse

Exactlty what I said before, a change in who He was taching not what He ws teaching. So does the change when He goes to a new city and teaches people that have never heard Him beofre is this now "new doctrine"

and this:

35And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

so they were going to e without Him physically, and travelling long distances to place they were not farmilliar with, how does this change His doctrine? or does go to a new city mean the Sabbath is changed? is that the thread you are pulling on? Hmm, this reminds me why there are so many denomanations called christianity in the world, yet each one says they are right and others ae wrong. Truth is Yahshua doctrine stayed the same and will never pass.

 

[Cee]

This is actually a salvation issue.

Paul says clearly you can't be alive to the Law and to God.

If you're still trying to find your righteousness by the Law, you don't have faith in Christ for your righteousness.

 

[Shamah]

Then God said, “I am giving you every plant on the face of the whole earth that produces its own seeds. I am giving you every tree that has fruit with seeds in it. All of them will be given to you for food.*

that's one instruction

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. I have already given you the green plants for food. Now I am giving you everything.

4*“But you must not eat meat that still has blood in it.*

an altered instruction

i can't see a prophecy regarding the alteration beforehand

where was meat ever restriced? herbs for food yes, but i does not say not meat allowed ever. It consistently said no blood.

 

[Shamah]

This is actually a salvation issue.

Paul says clearly you can't be alive to the Law and to God.

If you're still trying to find your righteousness by the Law, you don't have faith in Christ for your righteousness.

yeah thats what Paul says....



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

what other excuses do you have?

How about we hear the Messiah?

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”[/FONT]

your doctrine is against what the Messiah taught pre and post resurrection, this is not me being rude, thisis a simple fact.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 24:25-26, "But he who rebukes the wicked will be a delight, and a righteous blessing will be called upon him. A fitting; appropriate, answer is like a kiss on the lips."[/FONT]



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[Cee]

You're quoting them out of context. They don't mean what you're saying. And you're ignoring Scriptures that disagree with your interpretation.

Read the context of Romans 3. Paul is saying FAITH establishes the Law. Good luck with keeping the Law because no one (besides Christ) on the planet has been able to be righteous through it. That's the stumbling block. If you could be righteous by the Law why did Christ die?

yeah thats what Paul says....



Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

what other excuses do you have?

How about we hear the Messiah?


Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of יהוה and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”

your doctrine is against what the Messiah taught pre and post resurrection, this is not me being rude, thisis a simple fact.


Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt."


Proverbs 24:25-26, "But he who rebukes the wicked will be a delight, and a righteous blessing will be called upon him. A fitting; appropriate, answer is like a kiss on the lips."

 

[Cee]

If you're trying to be righteous by the Law I actually fear for your salvation. I thought people were keeping the Law because they thought it was what the Lord commanded after their faith in Him, but what I'm reading now is really scary. Your faith must be IN Him.

 

[Shamah]

If you're trying to be righteous by the Law I actually fear for your salvation. I thought people were keeping the Law because they thought it was what the Lord commanded after their faith in Him, but what I'm reading now is really scary. Your faith must be IN Him.

I know that is the battle cry of the antiNomian, who said I earn my way to the kingdom by obedience? Once a person has sinned unto death one time they deserve death, thankfully YHWH is merciful and has provided us a way a recincilliation, Yahshua the Messiah.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

yet righteous Instructon remains:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

Also and don't accuse me, I did not originally write this a disciple of Yahhsua DID;


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

seens you have been decieved to accuse any who would aree with this.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:25, "And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]our Strength, as He has commanded us.”

but Moses but Moses...
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] in order to be damned.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Messiah ahs stated His words clearly, choose this day who you will follow, the Messiah, who is the Sent One we must hear and obey. All you seem to stand on is Paul, the VINE speaks clearly, in 2 Peter, Peter said Paul is twisted into Lawlessness, and many quote Paul and claim anti-Law doctrines. To he who has ears....

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."[/FONT]

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[Shamah]

WHy is it that ALL antiNomians (those against Yah's Law) only quote Paul, it seems an issue this big must have had something in the Bible about it?

Ohh wait, here it is;



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”[/FONT]



remember kids:




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Yahshua/Jesus is the sent One we must hear and obey;

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 18:15-19, “[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brothers. Listen to Him, according to all you asked of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One in Ḥorĕḇ in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]my Mighty One, nor let me see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to me, ‘What they have spoken is good. I shall raise up for them a Prophet like you out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be, the man who does not listen to My Words which He speaks in My Name, I require it of him.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John/Yahanan 1:9, “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:17-18, “In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two people is valid. I am testifying about myself, and the Father who sent me is testifying about me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know Yah, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:17, "Because it is time for judgment to begin from the House of Yah. And if firstly from us, what is the end of those who do not obey the Good News of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”[/FONT]

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[Shamah]

Cee I assume you will not comment on the Scripture provided, so I ask one question.

How does saying the Law of YHWH is still valid and to be followed mean "justified by works/working to get into heaven/etc?"

A few Scriptures to quell false accusation;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

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[Dan_473]

Exactlty what I said before, a change in who He was taching not what He ws teaching. So does the change when He goes to a new city and teaches people that have never heard Him beofre is this now "new doctrine"

and this:

35And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

so they were going to e without Him physically, and travelling long distances to place they were not farmilliar with, how does this change His doctrine? or does go to a new city mean the Sabbath is changed? is that the thread you are pulling on? Hmm, this reminds me why there are so many denomanations called christianity in the world, yet each one says they are right and others ae wrong. Truth is Yahshua doctrine stayed the same and will never pass.

i don't see a change in who he is giving the instructions to

35And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”*36He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.


it's the 12 in both cases

 

[Dan_473]

where was meat ever restriced? herbs for food yes, but i does not say not meat allowed ever. It consistently said no blood.

"Now I am giving you everything."

implies God hadn't given them everything earlier

 

[Shamah]

i don't see a change in who he is giving the instructions to

35And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”*36He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.


it's the 12 in both cases

earlier we were talking about to the gentiles not to the gentiles...

do you re work His entire doctrine when He tells a particular person to go buy something or to rent a room?

Or was the buy a seord, bring no wallet a comment to those He wassending to teach His doctrine?

and I assue where ytou want to go is use this to say most of His teachings are not for you, if this is your stance then I guess they are not.

They are definitly for me and I can righty divide, I will not pick and try to disarm.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

WHy is it that ALL antiNomians (those against Yah's Law) only quote Paul, it seems an issue this big must have had something in the Bible about it?

Ohh wait, here it is;



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”[/FONT]



remember kids:




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

Yahshua/Jesus is the sent One we must hear and obey;

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 18:15-19, “[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brothers. Listen to Him, according to all you asked of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One in Ḥorĕḇ in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]my Mighty One, nor let me see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to me, ‘What they have spoken is good. I shall raise up for them a Prophet like you out of the midst of their brothers. And I shall put My Words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be, the man who does not listen to My Words which He speaks in My Name, I require it of him.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John/Yahanan 1:9, “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:17-18, “In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two people is valid. I am testifying about myself, and the Father who sent me is testifying about me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know Yah, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:17, "Because it is time for judgment to begin from the House of Yah. And if firstly from us, what is the end of those who do not obey the Good News of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]

i quote mostly Paul because he is the apostle to the gentiles

he is the one who deals with the relationship of gentiles to the law


there seems to be not much concern for whether Jews keeping the law

Acts 21: 20. They, when they heard it, glorified God. They said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.

 

[Shamah]

i quote mostly Paul because he is the apostle to the gentiles

he is the one who deals with the relationship of gentiles to the law


there seems to be not much concern for whether Jews keeping the law

Acts 21: 20. They, when they heard it, glorified God. They said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 12 were sent to the all nations Gentiles included by the Messiah Himself:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 ἔθνος ethnos (eth'-nos) n., 1. a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe., 2. (specially) a foreign (non-Jewish) one, Gentiles., 3. (usually, by implication) pagan., [probably from G1486], KJV: Gentile, heathen, nation, people, Root(s): G1486[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yet Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)"[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

earlier we were talking about to the gentiles not to the gentiles...

do you re work His entire doctrine when He tells a particular person to go buy something or to rent a room?

Or was the buy a seord, bring no wallet a comment to those He wassending to teach His doctrine?

and I assue where ytou want to go is use this to say most of His teachings are not for you, if this is your stance then I guess they are not.

They are definitly for me and I can righty divide, I will not pick and try to disarm.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

"earlier we were talking about to the gentiles not to the gentiles."

Yes, in that case also it's the 12 (later 11) who go / don't go

"do you re work His entire doctrine when He tells a particular person to go buy something or to rent a room?"

no, i consider the possibility that Jesus may mediate instructions for different times and places

for me, the whole law is mediated this way

Galatians 5: 13. For you, brothers, were called for freedom. Only don't use your freedom for gain to the flesh, but through love be servants to one another. 14. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[Dan_473]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 12 were sent to the all nations Gentiles included by the Messiah Himself:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 ἔθνος ethnos (eth'-nos) n., 1. a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe., 2. (specially) a foreign (non-Jewish) one, Gentiles., 3. (usually, by implication) pagan., [probably from G1486], KJV: Gentile, heathen, nation, people, Root(s): G1486[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yet Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)"[/FONT]

i think it's clear that most of the passages that deal with gentile life are written by Paul