Do we decide to be saved?
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So we save ourselves, and save others who hear us? I think you know better than that. What is the text really saying then?
So we save ourselves, and save others who hear us? I think you know better than that. What is the text really saying then?
Person A is drowning. Person B throws him a lifeline with float. Does person A save himself by grabbing the float and holding on to it while person B pulls him in to safety?
It is by chance that person A will live to throw a life line or when he does, he can be pulled into the water. Everything happens by the will of God.
That just makes a person an inanimate object. An unsaved person is spiritually dead, not physically dead. Salvation can only happen while a person's alive.
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Faulty illustration.
Now, can you answer the questions instead of offering a diversion? Or, are you taking this text and distorting it to support that people save themselves? (hint: this text is not speaking of eternal salvation/conversion.)
Just answer the question, or, go study it out in context for the answer. If you don't know, that is OK too, but enough with the diversions, pride, and error.
Here is the question(s) again:
So we save ourselves, and save others who hear us? I think you know better than that. What is the text really saying then?
Answer the above and thank you.
It's GOD's mercy that throws us a lifeline and keeps pulling it into shore. A person has to hold onto the float. GOD can't do that for us.
I'm not going to play your games based only on the assertion that my example is faulty. Show why it's faulty and then maybe we can go from there.
You're being disingenuous in the above. No one is saying the person is or was physically dead. You're purposefully conflating things.
...as for you, you were dead... Ephesians 2:1. In this state none can come to God unless God grants it to them; John 6:65. None are capable of doing so in their spiritually dead state. Note Ephesians 1:19; John 6:44 &c.
No games here, the only game is on your unbiblical illustration that doesn't represent truth.
You mean show you again? I've already done this, and you cannot answer.
Why not learn that the text isn't teaching your false doctrine? Pride? Nothing in that text teaches what you teach, you're in error.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
All men are drawn, but only those that believe are saved. Over and over Scripture says to believe. Believe upon the name of the Lord...if God has chosen those to believe, then the individual had no choice in the matter, thus it is not the individual believing upon the gospel.
Yeah, but my point and scriptures point is, that it is God who does the calling.
Well, are all men drawn to Jesus? The answer would be, No! Jesus also said, "no man can come to me except the Father draws him," which would infer that God does not call everyone. And I knew that there would be people who would say "then the individual had no choice in the matter" which is why I posted the following:
"One of you will say to me (John146): “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
HeRoseFromTheDead, Here you go, one last time. Now, either answer the direct questions concerning the text, and answer what it means.
Either you believe you save yourself (eternal salvation/conversion wise) or the text means something else.
Either answer this, or just post your nonsense and show you: 1) Hold to error; 2) Do not know the answer; 3) Are too proud to concede and learn what the text means.
Here you go again:
Faulty illustration.
Now, can you answer the questions instead of offering a diversion? Or, are you taking this text and distorting it to support that people save themselves? (hint: this text is not speaking of eternal salvation/conversion.)
Just answer the question, or, go study it out in context for the answer. If you don't know, that is OK too, but enough with the diversions, pride, and error.
Here is the question(s) again:
Answer the above and thank you.
Either you believe you save yourself (eternal salvation/conversion wise) or the text means something else.
Either answer this, or just post your nonsense and show you: 1) Hold to error; 2) Do not know the answer; 3) Are too proud to concede and learn what the text means.
Here you go again:
Faulty illustration.
Now, can you answer the questions instead of offering a diversion? Or, are you taking this text and distorting it to support that people save themselves? (hint: this text is not speaking of eternal salvation/conversion.)
Just answer the question, or, go study it out in context for the answer. If you don't know, that is OK too, but enough with the diversions, pride, and error.
Here is the question(s) again:
So we save ourselves, and save others who hear us? I think you know better than that. What is the text really saying then?
Answer the above and thank you.
For those of you who think that it is mankind's decision to be saved vs. God's Sovereign choice, tell me, what do you think of the following scripture:
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."
Yes, all men are drawn, either through preaching, witnessing or even God's creation. All men start out with a knowledge of God. Be careful of making inferences. Yes, God must draw a person first, then it is the person's choice to believe or reject. Many have resisted His will. I resist His will for my life almost daily. Calvinist love this verse to make it fit their theology, but it just doesn't fit.