GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Dan_473 · Apr 8, 2018

I suspected that was coming. This is why we need to righty divide the word.

Should we journey to Ninevah and preach repentace there? Should we build an arc? Should we seek to properly understand the word.

Also the Sabbath Command was given to Gentile and Herbrew alike:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

If we look at the context of Hebrews 4 we see those tried in the wilderness were an example, they went through a specific trial, some disobeyed and went out the 7th day to gather. Some did as YHWH said on the 7th day. Are we seeking to find "loopholes" or are we seeking to follow YHWH in truth?

The Commands/Law of YHWH is repeated starting at Exodus 20, as in Egypt the children of Abraham had forgotten everything YHWH told them, even His name. If there were restrictions they would have been given as a Command/Law, not just an example of a specific trial. We can and should learn from this specifc trial as Hebrews 4 says however.
[/FONT]

who is this command given to?

Jonah 1: 1. Now the word of Yhwh came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, 2. "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach against it, for their wickedness has come up before me."

and this one?

Exodus 16: 29. Everyone stay in his place.

Shamah · Apr 8, 2018

Dan_473 said:

Are you really that Scriptually illiterate or are you doing this on purpose? Context… Everyone on the planet? Everyone that enters the covenant? Or everyone there?

When one enters Covenant with YHWH there is a set of Instructions for them to follow.. This is not a Covenant Command:

Exodus 16:29 “See, because יהוה has given you the Sabbath, therefore He is giving you bread for two days on the sixth day. Let each one stay in his place, do not let anyone go out of his place on the seventh day.”

It’s in there verse you quoted, it is to those who were given 2 days worth of bread on the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] day and they were told not to leave to gather more on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day.

This is exactly what the pharisees did, take verses and detach them from their context and make up takanot and ma’assim/ their own made up man made laws loosely b...ased in the Word but not truly

Exod 16:16-17, "16 “This is the word which יהוה has commanded: ‘Let every man gather it according to each one’s need, an omer for each being, according to the number of beings. Let every man take for those who are in his tent.’ ”17 And the children of Yisra’ĕl did so and gathered, some more, some less.”

They were in the wilderness and had no other way to collect food, YHWH provided food and gave THEM specific Commands….

Endoscopy · Apr 9, 2018

Shamah said:

So can you quote where the length of a "Sabbath day's jourey" is?

No you can not, you know how I know that? Because there is no such thing in the word, nowere does it tell a certian distance that one can travel on the Sabbath.

It is something the pharisees made up, they even made "loopholes" on how to extend the distance 200%. As you seem to know, im surprised you do not also know the verses they twisted to come up with this...

I study diligently and know the word vvery well, and with that said I am still learning.

So I ask you to show me in Scripture where the length of a Sabbath days journey is?

Some notes from extra Biblical resources:

Is a “Sabbath Day’s Journey” Biblical?

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Sabbath Day’s Journey - jur'-ni (sabbatou hodos): Used only in Ac 1:12, where it designates the distance from Jerusalem to the Mount of Olives, to which Jesus led His disciples on the day of His ascension. The expression comes from rabbinical usage to indicate the distance a Jew might travel on the Sabbath without transgressing the Law, the command against working on that day being interpreted as including travel (see Ex 16:27-30). The limit set by the rabbis to the Sabbath day's journey was 2,000 cubits from one's house or domicile, which was derived from the statement found in Jos 3:4 that this was the distance between the ark and the people on their march, this being assumed to be the distance between the tents of the people and the tabernacle during the sojourn in the wilderness. Hence, it must have been allowable to travel thus far to attend the worship of the tabernacle. We do not know when this assumption in regard to the Sabbath day's journey was made, but it seems to have been in force in the time of Christ. The distance of the Mount of Olives from Jerusalem is stated in Josephus (Ant., XX, viii, 6) to have been five stadia or furlongs and in BJ, V, ii, 3, six stadia, the discrepancy being explained by supposing a different point of departure. This would make the distance of the Sabbath day's journey from 1,000 to 1,200 yards, the first agreeing very closely with the 2,000 cubits. The rabbis, however, invented a way of increasing this distance without technically infringing the Law, by depositing some food at the 2,000-cubit limit, before the Sabbath, and declaring that spot a temporary domicile. They might then proceed 2,000 cubits from this point without transgressing the Law.

And in some cases even this intricacy of preparation was unnecessary. If, for instance, the approach of the Sabbath found one on his journey, the traveler might select some tree or some stone wall at a distance of 2,000 paces and mentally declare this to be his residence for the Sabbath, in which case he was permitted to go the 2,000 paces to the selected tree or wall and also 2,000 paces beyond, but in such a case he must do the work thoroughly and must say: "Let my Sabbath residence be at the trunk of that tree," for if he merely said: "Let my Sabbath residence be under that tree," this would not be sufficient, because the, expression would be too general and indefinite (Tractate `Erubhin 4:7).

Other schemes for extending the distance have been devised, such as regarding the quarter of the town in which one dwells, or the whole town itself, as the domicile, thus allowing one to proceed from any part of the town to a point 2,000 cubits beyond its utmost limits. This was most probably the case with walled towns, at least, and boundary stones have been found in the vicinity of Gaza with inscriptions supposed to mark these limits. The 2,000-cubit limits around the Levitical cities (Nu 35:5) may have suggested the limit of the Sabbath day's journey also. The term came to be used as a designation of distance which must have been more or less definite.

H. Porter

The exact value of a "Sabbath day's walk" is 2,000 cubits, which works out to about 5/8 of a mile, or one kilometer. Commentator Craig S. Keener explains the logic and biblical basis:

The figures were natural extrapolations from Exod 16:29 (one must not leave one's place on the Sabbath) and Num 35:5 (identifying one's place as 2,000 cubits square) [Acts, v1, p735]

Numbers 35:5 in particular reads:

And you shall measure, outside the city, on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, the city being in the middle. This shall belong to them as pastureland for their cities. [ESV]

Keener confirms that the 2,000 cubit figure matches what we know of the geography of Jerusalem. He also argues that Luke knew this was the value used by the Pharisees, as recorded in later rabbinic tradition, such as the Mishnah:

On that day, Rabbi Akiva expounded [the verse], (Numbers 35:5) "You shall measure outside the city on the eastern outskirts, two thousand cubits..." (Numbers 35:5) [...] , and another verse says (Numbers 35:4) "... from the wall of the city and outward, 1000 cubits around." [...] One-thousand cubits is for the open land, and two thousand cubits is the Sabbath border [the distance one can travel from the city on Sabbath]." (Mishnah Sotah, 5:3)

Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible - Sabbath Day’s Journey.
Regulation derived from Jewish literature limiting travel on the sabbath. The prohibition against work on the sabbath was interpreted to exclude inordinate travel (Ex 16:27–30): “Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out” (v 29). One was permitted no more than 2000 cubits (1000–1200 yds). This was determined by the distance between the ark and the people following it (Jos 3:4) or from the pasture lands to the Levitical cities (Nm 35:4, 5). Thus, in the former instance, one would not go further to worship or in the latter to pasture an animal. The only biblical reference describes the distance from the Mt of Olives to Jerusalem as “a Sabbath day’s walk” (Acts 1:12).
The rabbis invented ways to at least double the distance. One could establish his home 2000 cubits away by carrying food sufficient for two meals: one to be eaten and the other to be buried—thereby to mark a temporary domicile. He might alternately fix his gaze upon a location 2000 cubits away as his legal home for the sabbath. He could, separately or in conjunction with a preceding modification, view the entire town as his home and so figure the sabbath day’s journey from the village limits.

Also provide the evidence of the lengeth or Command of length if you are able.

You could have easily found reference to the Sabbaths day journey in the Bible. Here is one quote from acts.

Acts 1 NIV
12 [FONT=&quot]Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] from the hill called the Mount of Olives,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] a Sabbath day’s walk[/FONT][FONT=&quot][c][/FONT][FONT=&quot] from the city[/FONT]

Endoscopy · Apr 9, 2018

The insane 5 minute rule is ridiculous when using my tablet with the reaction this site still has with the Chrome browser on Android.

Acts 1:12 That is, about 5/8 mile or about 1 kilometer

tanakh · Apr 9, 2018

Christ fulfilled the whole of the law on our behalf because we are incapable of keeping it. The whole law includes the Sabbath.
Those who point the finger at Christians for not keeping the Sabbath are worse than the Pharisees who did the same to Jesus and the Disciples.

It comes down to who you follow because there are only two groups of people featured in the Bible, despite claims to the contrary. The two groups are not Jews and Gentiles but those who follow Moses and the Old Covenant and those who follow Christ and the New Covenant. Each of us should seriously consider which group we belong to. Before considering Moses remember that according to Paul if you break one law you break them all and there are over six hundred of them. Another thing to consider is this.......

But do not think I will accuse you before the Father . Your accuser is Moses on whom your hopes are set If you believed Moses you would believe me for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote how are you going to believe what I say?

John 5:45 NIV

Dan_473 · Apr 9, 2018

Shamah said:

Are you really that Scriptually illiterate or are you doing this on purpose? Context… Everyone on the planet? Everyone that enters the covenant? Or everyone there?

When one enters Covenant with YHWH there is a set of Instructions for them to follow.. This is not a Covenant Command:

Exodus 16:29 “See, because יהוה has given you the Sabbath, therefore He is giving you bread for two days on the sixth day. Let each one stay in his place, do not let anyone go out of his place on the seventh day.”

It’s in there verse you quoted, it is to those who were given 2 days worth of bread on the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] day and they were told not to leave to gather more on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day.

This is exactly what the pharisees did, take verses and detach them from their context and make up takanot and ma’assim/ their own made up man made laws loosely b...ased in the Word but not truly

Exod 16:16-17, "16 “This is the word which יהוה has commanded: ‘Let every man gather it according to each one’s need, an omer for each being, according to the number of beings. Let every man take for those who are in his tent.’ ”17 And the children of Yisra’ĕl did so and gathered, some more, some less.”

They were in the wilderness and had no other way to collect food, YHWH provided food and gave THEM specific Commands….

Everyone on the planet.

the verse divisions were added later by humans

but if we appeal to context, i say that most of the laws were given to Israelites who were camping in the wilderness. Therefore they aren't for us today.

or rather, they are for us, but mediated by Jesus

Dan_473 · Apr 9, 2018

Shamah said:

Are you really that Scriptually illiterate or are you doing this on purpose? Context… Everyone on the planet? Everyone that enters the covenant? Or everyone there?

When one enters Covenant with YHWH there is a set of Instructions for them to follow.. This is not a Covenant Command:

Exodus 16:29 “See, because יהוה has given you the Sabbath, therefore He is giving you bread for two days on the sixth day. Let each one stay in his place, do not let anyone go out of his place on the seventh day.”

It’s in there verse you quoted, it is to those who were given 2 days worth of bread on the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] day and they were told not to leave to gather more on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day.

This is exactly what the pharisees did, take verses and detach them from their context and make up takanot and ma’assim/ their own made up man made laws loosely b...ased in the Word but not truly

Exod 16:16-17, "16 “This is the word which יהוה has commanded: ‘Let every man gather it according to each one’s need, an omer for each being, according to the number of beings. Let every man take for those who are in his tent.’ ”17 And the children of Yisra’ĕl did so and gathered, some more, some less.”

They were in the wilderness and had no other way to collect food, YHWH provided food and gave THEM specific Commands….

a example

27*“‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+19&version=NIV

this rule was given to people who associated hairstyles with idol worship

or so I've heard

so yes, context!

Dan_473 · Apr 9, 2018

Endoscopy said:

yes, and the niv translators have an explanatory note at the bottom

"Acts 1:12*That is, about 5/8 mile or about 1 kilometer"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26936c

Dan_473 · Apr 9, 2018

Endoscopy said:

i hear you,

i to am using a Chrome browser on Android

Endoscopy · Apr 9, 2018

tanakh said:

Let's go back to the early church. Divisions and heresies were happening. The early elders created the Roman Creed in the 200s. They updated it to the Apostles Creed some claim in 312 but the first mention of the name was in a letter written in 390.

The reason for it was to define what beliefs were required to be a Christian. Any issue outside the creed is to agree to disagree. Some people on this board have a hard time with these kinds of issues.

Shamah · Apr 9, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church Volume 3 (Edinburgh: 1884): 380, note.[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.ii”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321 A.D.iii”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Edict of Constantine, Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ.” A History of the Church Councils from 326 to 429 Volume 2 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Edict of Constantine:[/FONT]
“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]On 3 March 321, Constantine I decreed that Sunday (dies Solis) will be observed as the Roman day of rest” [CJ3.12.2]: “On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Under Constantine the Great Jewish clergy were given the same exemptions as Christian clergy.[1] Constantine, however, supported the separation of the date of Easter from the Jewish Passover (see also Quartodecimanism), stating in his letter after the First Council of Nicaea (which had already decided the matter):[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"... it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul ... Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way."usebius, Life of Constantine Vol. III Ch. XVIII Life of Constantine (Book III)[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Theodoret's Ecclesiastical History records The Epistle of the Emperor Constantine, concerning the matters transacted at the Council, addressed to those Bishops who were not present:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"It was, in the first place, declared improper to follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this holy festival, because, their hands having been stained with crime, the minds of these wretched men are necessarily blinded. ... Let us, then, have nothing in common with the Jews, who are our adversaries. ... Let us ... studiously avoiding all contact with that evil way. ... For how can they entertain right views on any point who, after having compassed the death of the Lord, being out of their minds, are guided not by sound reason, but by an unrestrained passion, wherever their innate madness carries them. ... lest your pure minds should appear to share in the customs of a people so utterly depraved. ... Therefore, this irregularity must be corrected, in order that we may no more have any thing in common with those parricides and the murderers of our Lord. ... no single point in common with the perjury of the Jews.” Ecclesiastical History by Theodoret. Book 1 Chapter 9[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 13:3, “And I saw one of his heads, as having been slain to death, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the earth wondered after the beast.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 18:4, “And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”[/FONT]

PS · Apr 10, 2018

I had never heard all this about Constantine until recently, and for me, and I am sure for other Christians also, Sunday is our day because the early Christians met together on Sunday, they broke bread on Sunday, and they paid into a common treasury on Sunday. There are other Bible based reasons also.

Constantine wasn't even born then and for all I know he may have gone for Sunday for the same reasons the early Christians did. It was more a case of Constantine following Christian tradition, rather than the other way round.

Shamah · Apr 10, 2018

PS said:

Actually the followers of Yahshua "broke bread" every day:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 2:46[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity--

We should worship and follow Yah everyday, but Sunday being a set apart day is not Scriptual and tradition. Constantine actually would kill and imprision those who kept 7th day Sabbath. You being someone who takes offence with any violence, I would think that this would bother you.
[/FONT]

tanakh · Apr 10, 2018

PS said:

In March 321 Constantine passed a Law allowing everyone to have Sunday off not Just Christians. See Below

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

Shamah · Apr 10, 2018

tanakh said:

and it had nothing to do with Biblical obedience, he was a worshipper of Mithra, the Persian Sun god, that is why he said "the venerable Day of the Sun" and has "sol invictus Mithra" minted on his coins, or "commited to the worship of Mithra"

this was minted 4 years after that quote:

PS · Apr 10, 2018

tanakh said:

In March 321 Constantine passed a Law allowing everyone to have Sunday off not Just Christians. See Below

“On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)” Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol.3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p.380, note 1.

It reads very sensibly and I could imagine Jesus saying much the same.

PS · Apr 10, 2018

Shamah said:

They were blessed.

If Constantine killed people for keeping the Saturday, then he was wrong to do so, but there are lots of reasons for keeping Sunday, and neither was it tradition, it couldn't be, the Saturday tradition belongs to the Jews.

PS · Apr 10, 2018

Shamah said:

the worship of Mithra, the Iranian god of the sun, justice, contract, and war in pre-Zoroastrian Iran. Known as Mithras in the Roman Empire during the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD, this deity was honoured as the patron of loyalty to the emperor. After the acceptance of Christianity by the emperor Constantine in the early 4th century, Mithraism rapidly declined. (Britannica)

So, Constantine converted to Christianity.

beta · Apr 10, 2018

Shamah said:

Even with EVIDENCE 'sun-worshippers can not grasp the TRUTH !
where do they get this 'stubborness from ? satan will never admit to God and the lake of fire is the only result.
For nearly 2000 years God has commanded people to REPENT !!! Acts 17v30....a scripture LGF had repeatedly posted and was banned/silenced/beheaded for....that seems the christian's answer to 'loving your enemy....a far cry from following the True Jesus Lord of the Sabbath !

beta · Apr 10, 2018

PS said:

Have you never read that ''the Sabbath was made for MAN'' ? does any Bible say it was made for the JEW ?
Can I explain ? The Sabbath started with ISRAEL, the appointed people of GOD. THEY were then expected to be an EXAMPLE to all nations !!! it was never made for them only but for ALL men !

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member