Not By Works
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Being deliberately obtuse. As an elder and deacon in a Reformed Church and two Presbyterian PCA churches I took classes taught by the ministers for the new elders and deacons as well as any of the congregation that wanted to attend. In class we were asked if we had any issues with the doctrinal texts of the church that were being taught. Several of us had minor issues. For me the one was about ministers that had no scriptures to back it up. I agreed the denomination had the right to make that determination but it belonged in the Book of Church Order that describes the government of the church. Several denominations have a book like that for their denomination.
In regards to the law, Paul was so against trying to keep it, look what he wrote with his own hand.
Galatians 6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Paul's boast wasn't in being circumcised, which the law keepers told believers they needed to do. And why did they say this?
Genesis 17:9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
Genesis 17:13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Their argument is that cirucmcision was necessary because it was necessary for the Jews and it was an "everlasting covenant".
Sound familiar?
But Paul says this; the ONLY thing I will boast in is the cross of Christ. None of this stuff matters, but being a new creation.
14But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Galatians 6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Paul's boast wasn't in being circumcised, which the law keepers told believers they needed to do. And why did they say this?
Genesis 17:9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
Genesis 17:13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Their argument is that cirucmcision was necessary because it was necessary for the Jews and it was an "everlasting covenant".
Sound familiar?
But Paul says this; the ONLY thing I will boast in is the cross of Christ. None of this stuff matters, but being a new creation.
14But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
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OK. What about yesterday when we were talking and I typed a lengthy response adn got no reply? Also The verses I selected wer in response to what you posted, I did read it and that is how I chose the passages I did. But no worries.
I will just say this.
The rest Yahshua/Jesus offers is not available in the flesh, here is the Scriptual evidence:
Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"
2 Thess 1:5-10, says ""to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers."
" when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers" This is upon His return as the conquering Lion.
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”
This Passage supports that thought:
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
and if we look at the verse before it:
Revelation 14:12-13, "14:12, "Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,c here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע. Footnote: cSee also Rev 12:17."14:13, "And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”"
Now if you hahve a passage that says Jesus is the Sabbath I would like to see it, and I would ask that you explain what these passages I posted means. Finally if you do reply I will not answer right\ away I have to log off for a while but Yah willing I will be back tonight and I will check this post first.
I will just say this.
The rest Yahshua/Jesus offers is not available in the flesh, here is the Scriptual evidence:
Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"
2 Thess 1:5-10, says ""to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers."
" when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers" This is upon His return as the conquering Lion.
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”
This Passage supports that thought:
Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"
and if we look at the verse before it:
Revelation 14:12-13, "14:12, "Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,c here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע. Footnote: cSee also Rev 12:17."14:13, "And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”"
Now if you hahve a passage that says Jesus is the Sabbath I would like to see it, and I would ask that you explain what these passages I posted means. Finally if you do reply I will not answer right\ away I have to log off for a while but Yah willing I will be back tonight and I will check this post first.
I wrote this in response to your lengthy response. I dealt with the first point you made. Which is show Jesus is our Rest through Scripture and I did. 
Hebrews 4 is crystal clear that Jesus is the Sabbath that God instituted. And I could go through other chapters, but I decided to go through each verse in Hebrews 4 to show the thought that Paul is making. I can deal with these other Scriptures, you are posting, but not if you refuse to look at Hebrews 4 and deal specifically with what I typed. Because that would just be a waste of time, for me to go through and address each one, if you refuse to look at the context and ideas being presented.
When I look at something, I ask Holy Spirit for guidance, I look at the original languages, I read a few commentaries, and then I look at the entire scope of the Bible. It takes me quite a bit of time because I am continually seeking to grow through the process. I have to be okay with willing to be wrong, before I'll be able to truly see the Truth of what He is teaching me.
Hebrews 4 is crystal clear that Jesus is the Sabbath that God instituted. And I could go through other chapters, but I decided to go through each verse in Hebrews 4 to show the thought that Paul is making. I can deal with these other Scriptures, you are posting, but not if you refuse to look at Hebrews 4 and deal specifically with what I typed. Because that would just be a waste of time, for me to go through and address each one, if you refuse to look at the context and ideas being presented.
When I look at something, I ask Holy Spirit for guidance, I look at the original languages, I read a few commentaries, and then I look at the entire scope of the Bible. It takes me quite a bit of time because I am continually seeking to grow through the process. I have to be okay with willing to be wrong, before I'll be able to truly see the Truth of what He is teaching me.
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Amen Cee, being that we just celebrated "Resurrection Day" I am reminded that apart from Jesus Christ, I am nothing.
The Ministry of Reconciliation: 2Cotinthians5:16-20
16) So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
18) All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19) that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20) We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
God bless
The Ministry of Reconciliation: 2Cotinthians5:16-20
16) So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
18) All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19) that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20) We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
God bless
This is one of my favorite Scriptures, what I find really intriguing about this is v16.
If you look at this in other translations, it says we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we do so no longer.
That idea is very thought-provoking to me.
If you look at this in other translations, it says we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we do so no longer.
That idea is very thought-provoking to me.
This is one of my favorite Scriptures, what I find really intriguing about this is v16.
If you look at this in other translations, it says we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we do so no longer.
That idea is very thought-provoking to me.
If you look at this in other translations, it says we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we do so no longer.
That idea is very thought-provoking to me.
I wrote this in response to your lengthy response. I dealt with the first point you made. Which is show Jesus is our Rest through Scripture and I did.
Hebrews 4 is crystal clear that Jesus is the Sabbath that God instituted. And I could go through other chapters, but I decided to go through each verse in Hebrews 4 to show the thought that Paul is making. I can deal with these other Scriptures, you are posting, but not if you refuse to look at Hebrews 4 and deal specifically with what I typed. Because that would just be a waste of time, for me to go through and address each one, if you refuse to look at the context and ideas being presented.
When I look at something, I ask Holy Spirit for guidance, I look at the original languages, I read a few commentaries, and then I look at the entire scope of the Bible. It takes me quite a bit of time because I am continually seeking to grow through the process. I have to be okay with willing to be wrong, before I'll be able to truly see the Truth of what He is teaching me.
Hebrews 4 is crystal clear that Jesus is the Sabbath that God instituted. And I could go through other chapters, but I decided to go through each verse in Hebrews 4 to show the thought that Paul is making. I can deal with these other Scriptures, you are posting, but not if you refuse to look at Hebrews 4 and deal specifically with what I typed. Because that would just be a waste of time, for me to go through and address each one, if you refuse to look at the context and ideas being presented.
When I look at something, I ask Holy Spirit for guidance, I look at the original languages, I read a few commentaries, and then I look at the entire scope of the Bible. It takes me quite a bit of time because I am continually seeking to grow through the process. I have to be okay with willing to be wrong, before I'll be able to truly see the Truth of what He is teaching me.
Amen! The whole law spoke of Him who was to come. The whole law and all of the prophets spoke of Him. So the law concerning the sabbath spoke of Him. We might think it spoke of us and what we must do, but nope. It spoke of Him!
Romans 9:30What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Gentiles didn't pursue righteousness. And attained it by faith.
Israel pursued a law so that they could earn righteousness.
But only faith pleases God.
Romans 10:1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
If we are still trying to BE righteous, we are trying to establish our own. We need to submit to His righteousness in Christ. And thus we become righteous.
If we are still trying to BE righteous, we are trying to establish our own. We need to submit to His righteousness in Christ. And thus we become righteous.
A long time ago as a young Christian I was surprised to find out that our guest speaker at a men's retreat was, a famous pro football player. I can never forget when he was encouraging us as believers to place no eternal value in "our flesh" because we will have new heavenly bodies created to worship our Lord in heaven forever, amazing.
And then we were all surprised again when he went on to greet each one of us and saying, "this is just stuff" and holding the skin on his arm again, he repeated to each one of us saying, "this is just stuff" amazing testimony coming from a professional athlete.
And then we were all surprised again when he went on to greet each one of us and saying, "this is just stuff" and holding the skin on his arm again, he repeated to each one of us saying, "this is just stuff" amazing testimony coming from a professional athlete.
I could summarize everything I've written like this:
There is no righteousness for us in following the Law. It is only apart from the Law that we find faith. And that faith is to submit to God's righteousness in Christ. And in Christ we live from faith not from the Law. Because we have died to the old manner of life. And now live in a new life in Christ. From the victory He has won for us. And through Him we have peace with God. To go back to the law, the old manner of life, is to fall from grace. And to once again try to establish our own righteousness to be right before God. But we are not those who shrink back, but press forward to know Him as He knows us. And to know Him is eternal life.
There is no righteousness for us in following the Law. It is only apart from the Law that we find faith. And that faith is to submit to God's righteousness in Christ. And in Christ we live from faith not from the Law. Because we have died to the old manner of life. And now live in a new life in Christ. From the victory He has won for us. And through Him we have peace with God. To go back to the law, the old manner of life, is to fall from grace. And to once again try to establish our own righteousness to be right before God. But we are not those who shrink back, but press forward to know Him as He knows us. And to know Him is eternal life.
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Excuse me Cee, our guest speaker at the men's retreat was, Terry Bradshaw.
One of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history, Terry Bradshaw has spent much of his life playing, reporting and commenting on football.
[h=2]Synopsis[/h]Born on September 2, 1948, in Shreveport, Louisiana, professional football player Terry Bradshaw was named an All-American while playing for Louisiana Polytechnic Institute. The first player selected in the 1970 NFL draft, Bradshaw went to great success with the Pittsburgh Steelers. During his 14-year NFL career, he helped take his team to the Super Bowl several times and rightfully earned four Super Bowl rings. Following his successful career, he became a leading television personality and analyst for the NFL
One of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history, Terry Bradshaw has spent much of his life playing, reporting and commenting on football.
[h=2]Synopsis[/h]Born on September 2, 1948, in Shreveport, Louisiana, professional football player Terry Bradshaw was named an All-American while playing for Louisiana Polytechnic Institute. The first player selected in the 1970 NFL draft, Bradshaw went to great success with the Pittsburgh Steelers. During his 14-year NFL career, he helped take his team to the Super Bowl several times and rightfully earned four Super Bowl rings. Following his successful career, he became a leading television personality and analyst for the NFL