GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Shamah · Apr 2, 2018

PS said:

Quote where I said that. You are making up fairy tales, if you can quote where I said that ok, but you can not because I never said that.

If you are reffering to this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

You are twisting the word, as this is YHWH testifying that Yahshua is the one we "MUST HEAR AND OBEY"
[/FONT][/FONT]

graceNpeace · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

I thought you said it should not be translated "Gentile" ???>>>?????????

also how are they not "new converts" when they are "turning to Yah"

Acts 15:19
New International Version
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

New Living Translation
"And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

English Standard Version
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

Berean Study Bible
It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I judge not to trouble those from the Gentiles turning to God,

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,

King James Bible
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

There is nothing in what you are saying that "proves" that the Gentiles referred to were new believers....
I already explained that many Gentile believers would have converted up to 10-15 years previously - perhaps you missed this part too?

Shamah · Apr 2, 2018

graceNpeace said:

OK this is the last time I will try...

the verse says it

Acts 15:19
New International Version
"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

New Living Translation
"And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

English Standard Version
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

not all gentiles, but the ones "turning to Yah"

that would be new converts.

hav a nice day.

graceNpeace · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

All Gentiles!!!!
I never referred to ALL GENTILES, I was only ever referring to those who have become Christians, yes, those ones....
And that is who Acts 15:19 references.

As hard as you try you cannot "make" this just a reference to "new" Christians, Gentile or not!

PS · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

This is clear;

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”

John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

These quotes of yours elevate Jesus to the level of God and I wondered if you had changed your views?

John 14:23-24 for example is an example of the unity between Father and Son.

beta · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

I am surprised you are still trying....when it is blatantly obvious they will not hear...and rather kill the word of God than change. Are we supposed to wrangle with them for ever ?
don't think so...just causes and increases ill-feeling and hatred on their part...as is being demonstrated ! in the end it won't help their cause and make things worse for them.

lightbearer · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

The Greek word for turning in this verse is in the present tense. That being the case it would seem that these were new converts since these Gentiles would be turning even as the writer was writing and after.

graceNpeace · Apr 2, 2018

lightbearer said:

Exactly correct, it is in the present indicative, however that does not mean that it can only refer to a "now" event. The context is very much talking about converts from the past up until the present time!

lightbearer · Apr 2, 2018

graceNpeace said:

Correct.
However Do you see where that statement seems to contradicts this one.

graceNpeace · Apr 2, 2018

lightbearer said:

No, because the Greek use of the present active indicative is NOT limited to just the simple present tense - try consulting an intermediate Greek grammar for reference....

HeRoseFromTheDead · Apr 2, 2018

graceNpeace said:

Those rules in Acts 15:20, 29 are an early form of the Noahide Laws. They were rules mandated by synagogues for gentile proselytes of the gate to follow in order to worship there.

Dan_473 · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

Most people twist "Law of Liberty" into ability to do things contrary to YHWH...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”[/FONT]

definitely don't want "to do things contrary to YHWH"
instead, do the law as it is mediated by Jesus

Dan_473 · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

OK, eat anything right? and all is Lawful?

So murder is Lawful? All right?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:9-10, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with his heart and is justified, and declares with his mouth and is saved.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21, “Not everyone who keeps saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will get into the kingdom from heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

"OK, eat anything right?"

just follow the scripture
eat whatever is set before you

Dan_473 · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

OK, eat anything right? and all is Lawful?

So murder is Lawful? All right?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:9-10, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with his heart and is justified, and declares with his mouth and is saved.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21, “Not everyone who keeps saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will get into the kingdom from heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

"So murder is Lawful? All right?"

God led the Israelites to murder the Canaanites

or was it just killing? you decide!

Dan_473 · Apr 2, 2018

TMS said:

Before you can say the law was changed or abolished which many of you are doing you need to understand that there are two laws, and this is easily proven by looking at the following verses.

1. Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

But wait there are verses that say the law remains.

2. Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

IS THE WORD CONTRADICTING ITSELF?
NO
There are two laws and the laws that the Jews were trying to force on the gentiles had been fulfilled at the cross and the Ten commandments are eternal by nature. Some laws did get abolished at the cross, some remain.

Is is acceptable to kill and steal today? Can i have other Gods or take the Lords name in vain today? No because these laws are still very much applicable.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and didn't say to stop keeping it anywhere.

of course we do the law as it is mediated by Jesus

do you have a list of the laws the bible says we are to keep today?

Studyman · Apr 2, 2018

graceNpeace said:

Is seems a person should take all scriptures regarding converts into account. Beginning with the promise of a new covenant.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Does this happen upon conversion? No!

Ex. 23:28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.
29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

I believe the Spiritual intent of this verse represents our wickedness, our traditions, the wicked thoughts in our minds which are our true enemy.

The Word which became Flesh drives these out of His people over time.

1 Pet. 1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Whoever these Gentiles were, they had not come to the place Peter and James were Spiritually. They were being taught by Peter and James, which means they had not been "converted" long enough, nor had they knowledge of our Lord sufficient enough to be teachers themselves. They had turned to God, or were turning to God depending on the bible version, but they had not come to the "unity of the Faith" yet.

Eph. 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

These Gentiles did not yet have the Word which became Flesh's Laws written on their hearts. They were still "Babes in Christ" and Peter and James knew it.

Acts. 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

James gave these young Christians the same instructions that Jesus gave to them.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

We know from study that the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, the Pharisees, said they taught and followed the "Law of Moses" (For they say) but they did not teach and follow the Law of Moses. (And do not)

Both Peter and James would have heard this teaching of the Christ and would have understood that the Preachers of their time were "teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men", not God as they claimed. This is important to understand.

4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders (Necks); but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

So when these preachers, "who believed" came and tried to convert the Gentiles to "their" religion they called the "law of Moses" Peter knew they were trying to turn the gentiles away from the true God and towards their traditions of man.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

So the Apostles kept the Gentile converts, who had not matured enough to understand the dangers of the mainstream preaching of their time, (New Converts) away from the religious traditions of the Jews and towards God's Word which was read by the Scribes every Sabbath Day. Just like Jesus instructed them to do in their early walk.

These Gentiles were New Converts otherwise they would already know about God's Laws regarding "fornication" "idolatry" "and His "food Laws" which James instructed them to follow.

It seems like a foolish argument to try and teach that these Gentiles were seasoned believers given what the Bible actually says.

Studyman · Apr 2, 2018

Dan_473 said:

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

PS · Apr 2, 2018

Dan_473 said:

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

50 Commands of Jesus - Practical Bible study - 15 lessons - What they mean today

Studyman · Apr 2, 2018

PS said:

The Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus gave all these commands and instructions in the examples He had written for our admonition called the Old Testament.

He calls them "His Sayings", His Commandments", "His Words". I think it is a mistake to preach a Jesus that wasn't the Word who created "ALL THINGS".

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col. 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,(Sin) out of the house of bondage.(deception)

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Jackson123 · Apr 2, 2018

Shamah said:

you keep proping up Ellen White as a witness againt what YHWH says, Ellen White is a false prophet YHWH is the Mighty One;

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labor, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Mighty One. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"

yes dear, Ellen White is false prophet. She work for Elien wich is demon. She teach Saturday sabbath.

Saturday sabbath is for Jews before crucifixion, as a shadow of the real sabbath or rest in Jesus.

if you want to observe sabbath, this is how

[h=1]Matthew 11:28 King James Version (KJV)[/h]28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest./sabbath.

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member