GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?
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Re: Hebrews chapter 4
There is a slight misunderstanding. The Israelite's faithfully set aside a day of rest for religious worship, but they did not profit from it and Heb 4:6 tells us why, “they to whom it was first preached entered not into God’s rest because of unbelief.”
Hundreds of years later David in Psalm 95:8-11 confirmed this when he pleaded with the people not to do as their forefathers had done when he wrote in the spirit:-
Harden not your heart as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.(v8-11)
So you see, even though they set a day aside it did not do them any good because of their unbelief.
There is a slight misunderstanding. The Israelite's faithfully set aside a day of rest for religious worship, but they did not profit from it and Heb 4:6 tells us why, “they to whom it was first preached entered not into God’s rest because of unbelief.”
Hundreds of years later David in Psalm 95:8-11 confirmed this when he pleaded with the people not to do as their forefathers had done when he wrote in the spirit:-
Harden not your heart as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.(v8-11)
So you see, even though they set a day aside it did not do them any good because of their unbelief.
R
No, the chapter is about anything in honest dispute:
"21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
23 ...whatever is not from faith is sin."-Romans 14:21,23
Besides, Paul mentions the matter of 'days' right in the beginning of the chapter, so we know it isn't just about foods:
"5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike."-Romans 14:5
"21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
23 ...whatever is not from faith is sin."-Romans 14:21,23
Besides, Paul mentions the matter of 'days' right in the beginning of the chapter, so we know it isn't just about foods:
"5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike."-Romans 14:5
Re: Hebrews chapter 4
Here is Jesus commenting on the law.
Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Transgression of this law is sin. 613 rules in the law.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
Here is Jesus commenting on the law.
Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Transgression of this law is sin. 613 rules in the law.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
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No, not quite anything.
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Its ok to correct people when they are wrong as Christians.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
This is for Christians;
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
We're told not to go back to the law but to stand fast in the liberty where Christ has made us free. Those who are declaring a Saturday Sabbath are pointing back to the law to work at it. As Paul says if you place yourself under one law you have placed yourself under the curse of all of it.
Its one thing to let the weak brother eat herbs and cause others to eat herbs around him. It is quite another for the "weak brother" to place himself under the curse and cause others to place themselves under the curse as well.
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Its ok to correct people when they are wrong as Christians.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
This is for Christians;
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
We're told not to go back to the law but to stand fast in the liberty where Christ has made us free. Those who are declaring a Saturday Sabbath are pointing back to the law to work at it. As Paul says if you place yourself under one law you have placed yourself under the curse of all of it.
Its one thing to let the weak brother eat herbs and cause others to eat herbs around him. It is quite another for the "weak brother" to place himself under the curse and cause others to place themselves under the curse as well.
Re: Hebrews chapter 4
We discussed this only a couple on days ago and if you cannot be bothered to read the posts, I'm certainly not going to go over it again.
Jesus said, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luk 16:16 KJV)
The law and the prophets are the Tanakh, the Old Testament, and the law you posted is from the Tanakh which ended with John the Baptist. Early on in his ministry Jesus gave us fifty new commandments, so ending the Mosaic law. Now we have a new High Priest who has given us a new law based on love. Consequently we have a new God given law that endures to the end.
About John the Baptist Jesus said, For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: (Mat 11:7-11 KJV)
The law and the prophets, meaning the Tanakh or the Mikra ended with John the Baptist and "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Mat 4:17 KJV)
We discussed this only a couple on days ago and if you cannot be bothered to read the posts, I'm certainly not going to go over it again.
Jesus said, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luk 16:16 KJV)
The law and the prophets are the Tanakh, the Old Testament, and the law you posted is from the Tanakh which ended with John the Baptist. Early on in his ministry Jesus gave us fifty new commandments, so ending the Mosaic law. Now we have a new High Priest who has given us a new law based on love. Consequently we have a new God given law that endures to the end.
About John the Baptist Jesus said, For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: (Mat 11:7-11 KJV)
The law and the prophets, meaning the Tanakh or the Mikra ended with John the Baptist and "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Mat 4:17 KJV)
Re: Hebrews chapter 4
ROFL
Did you bother to read the list of the 613 scripture references. While the list is created by commentators they point to the verses that are in the God inspired Bible, specifically the Torah. The list is divided into two groups. The do's and the don'ts. They are subdivided then by subject and each one points to the verse in the Torah. Theologians are the "commentators" that compiled this list of the 613 rules in the law.
Refute their findings instead of using the fallacious ad hominem attack. (attack the person) Why do you think using that kind of attack is a good method of discussion?
ROFL
Did you bother to read the list of the 613 scripture references. While the list is created by commentators they point to the verses that are in the God inspired Bible, specifically the Torah. The list is divided into two groups. The do's and the don'ts. They are subdivided then by subject and each one points to the verse in the Torah. Theologians are the "commentators" that compiled this list of the 613 rules in the law.
Refute their findings instead of using the fallacious ad hominem attack. (attack the person) Why do you think using that kind of attack is a good method of discussion?
Deuteronomy 33: 29. Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places. - Bible Offline
i count this as a commandment
"thou shalt tread upon their high places"
i count this as a commandment
"thou shalt tread upon their high places"
Re: Hebrews chapter 4
Refute what Jesus said about the law is in force until heaven and earth are no more. I posted that quote.
Refute the fact that sin is defined as transgression of the law.
What law does sin transgress?
If the law is not in place then why do we need to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus?
In your quote of Jesus what do we have to REPENT?
In your quote of the Bible you didn't post the next verse. Here they are from the AMPC my favorite translation.
16 Until John came, there were the Law and the Prophets; since then the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone strives violently to go in [would force his own way rather than God’s way into it].
17 Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to fail and become void.
Oops you goofed with your own usage of scripture. I always get suspicious of the usage of single verses.
Refute what Jesus said about the law is in force until heaven and earth are no more. I posted that quote.
Refute the fact that sin is defined as transgression of the law.
What law does sin transgress?
If the law is not in place then why do we need to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus?
In your quote of Jesus what do we have to REPENT?
In your quote of the Bible you didn't post the next verse. Here they are from the AMPC my favorite translation.
16 Until John came, there were the Law and the Prophets; since then the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone strives violently to go in [would force his own way rather than God’s way into it].
17 Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to fail and become void.
Oops you goofed with your own usage of scripture. I always get suspicious of the usage of single verses.
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Re: Hebrews chapter 4
Yes. Beside the fact that they extrapolated by men from the Holy Writ. They are a fail from the start.
1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2) Nothing in that text about believing YHWH as the only source of Power in the Universe.
2. Submit to Yahweh as the Supreme Head, to be in unity with Yahweh. (Deu_6:4) Nothing about submitting to YHWH as the Supreme Head or being in Unity with Him
Though both these Laws are Good ones and should be heeded through the Spirit by all. None of the verses to which is said to back them do.
Yes. Beside the fact that they extrapolated by men from the Holy Writ. They are a fail from the start.
1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2) Nothing in that text about believing YHWH as the only source of Power in the Universe.
2. Submit to Yahweh as the Supreme Head, to be in unity with Yahweh. (Deu_6:4) Nothing about submitting to YHWH as the Supreme Head or being in Unity with Him
Though both these Laws are Good ones and should be heeded through the Spirit by all. None of the verses to which is said to back them do.
i like how this put it
"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and*sin is lawlessness."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1john3&version=NASB
"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and*sin is lawlessness."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1john3&version=NASB
I use Google to find verses on a subject and then go to that chapter in the Bible at biblegateway.com. It allows using almost any translation of the original language to almost all of the translations into most languages I use NIV and AMPC the most. I reject KJV since the English has changed too much since 1611. For those who disagree here is evidence supporting my conclusion.
KJV Issues
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
King James Version issues
Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute
Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
KJV Issues
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
King James Version issues
Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? - Christian Research Institute
Why the KJV CANNOT be the only true and correct translation of God's Word.
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2