Not By Works

[gb9]

i see the same old thing , just throwing out verses , no context, just plucked out verses.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

 

[Budman]

The Jesus of the Bible said we are to live by "EVERY WORD" that comes from God, not just the words which we can use to support whichever religious franchise we belong to.

Okay. cool. But you missed this one:

" For whoever keeps the whole Law yet stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." (James 2:10)

If you want to add the Law to the Gospel or grace. fine. But you DO NOT get to pick and choose which parts you obey. It's ALL OF IT or NOTHING.

That means you'd better get started building a Temple, finding a Levitical priest, and get those sacrifices started.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't answer my question. Would The Messiah still follow the Father's commands?

If the messiag failed once, he would have been doomed and so would we

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm sorry, but your missing the greatest command, it's to love YAHWEH. That's the first and greatest command. How do we living him according to scripture, by obeying him. How do we love our neighbor according to scripture, by obeying YAHWEH's commands regarding our neighbors.
About the Sabbath honestly that is not what my question about the ten commandments had to do with, but you said YOU Can allow Yahushua to be your daily rest, how does a spiritual rest compare to a command for a physical one? It should never be about what is ok to us, it's about what is ok with him.
Scripture says rest on the 7th day, you shall not do any work, you or your servants even your livestock, that's it. And if most people don't keep it that way that is between them and YAHWEH. We can only share with each other what we see in scripture and try our best to honor the Father with our walk. Yahushua died to redeem us from our sin, we cannot knowingly remain in it once we know right? If YAHWEH would come to me and tell me to stand on my head for 3 hrs would I? Even if at times I don't fully understand everything he asks of his people, will I trust that he knows better than I do, and that's why he asks. I Hope my answer will always be Yes. Even if at times it's hard to walk against the current. He sent his Son for Me, little old me, how can I refuse to try and accept that gift gratefully and try and walk in a way that pleases him. His sacrifice was not in a vain. With that same love that he loved me, I will try my best to love him back, because I am eternally grateful. Sorry for the typos, they are bad. But I'm not being allowed to fix at the top of the page?????? Hope you can understand.

we love because he first loved us. Loving god will not save us. God has to save us first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Katy,
If indeed you are lost again, do not give up: God is still there and will receive you back and you can once again find peace and love and security and salvation in Him: What He asks has never changed: Believe in me and you will be saved!

Thats ok, we can’t be lost again, so we have nothing to fear but fear itself (the lie of satan)

 

[dcontroversal]

"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Romans 3:28)

If there's no law why do we need a savior?

Why is it so hard for you to understand the following truths....

a. The law came to establish man's guilt before GOD and the whole world guilty
b. The law points us to CHRIST as the only cure for our lost and guilty state
c. The law came so that sin might abound<---meaning "a" above
d. The law will never justify a man before GOD "a" above
e. The righteousness of Christ WITHOUT THE LAW is IMPUTED by FAITH as the CURE from the GUILT DEEMED by the LAW
f. ALL the LAW can be summed up in LOVING GOD and YOUR NEIGHBOR which can ONLY BE DONE after "c" above by faith

It is that simple...BE NOT REMOVED from the simplicity found in CHRIST

The SIMPLICITY found in Christ-->IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE!

THEREFORE, we CONCLUDE that a man is JUSTIFIED (legally rendered innocent) by FAITH without the DEEDS of the LAW (see a, c, d above)

 

[Shamah]

Yah saves... so then what do we do?

A.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 7:9-11, “Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal, follow hinder gods you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says YHWH.”[/FONT]


B.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

It's telling that when anyone says obedience is right many find a way to turn that into a "bad" message. Call it "saved by works" "pharisee" "legalist" etc...

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 9:12-13, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]hearing this, said to them, “Those who are strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and not offering.’ (Hos 6:6) For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance, but sinners.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, “Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:17, “From that time [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]began to proclaim and to say, “Repent, for the reign of the heavens has drawn near.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of YHWH."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them."

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

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[dcontroversal]

i see the same old thing , just throwing out verses , no context, just plucked out verses.

Romans 3 forever settles this garbage pushed by the lawyers and Pharisees....NO MAN keeps the law, the WHOLE world is guilty, every mouth needs to be shut and the law deems ALL guilty before GOD and exactly why it will never save a man or justify a man before GOD...NO ONE KEEPS IT or HAS KEPT IT except JESUS and that is why HIS righteousness is put to our account BY FAITH without the deeds of the law......end of story no matter how they slice, dice and think in their minds they keep it!

 

[dcontroversal]

Okay. cool. But you missed this one:

" For whoever keeps the whole Law yet stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." (James 2:10)

If you want to add the Law to the Gospel or grace. fine. But you DO NOT get to pick and choose which parts you obey. It's ALL OF IT or NOTHING.

That means you'd better get started building a Temple, finding a Levitical priest, and get those sacrifices started.

AMEN and he is already behind the proverbial "8 ball" because he has not kept the law his whole life....in order to be justified by the law, one must have kept it 24/7/365 his whole life from the beginning to the end....if he has broken it ONCE he is guilty as a law breaker and doomed.....and since ALL men are liars (according to GOD) he is doomed by his law keeping false dogma!

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 6:46, "And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:17, “From that time [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]began to proclaim and to say, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Repent[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for the reign of the heavens has drawn near.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] you [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]love Me, keep My commandments[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:13-14, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 37:1-5, “Do not fret because of evil-doers, Do not be envious of the workers of unrighteousness. For they soon wither like grass, And fade like green plants. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Trust in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and do [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]right[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; Dwell in the earth, and feed on faithfulness. And delight yourself in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And let Him give you the desires of your heart. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Commit your way to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], And trust in Him, and He does it.”[/FONT]

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[dcontroversal]

The straight gate-->100% trust and faith into the finished work of Christ that has not been embellished with works, law keeping, church membership, immersion, and or any other religious sacrament or hoop jumping!

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”



John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey


John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”


Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

does he really think posting a bunch of verses will get people to see things his way? Especially since he adds a jewish tough?

Seriously, even paul did not do that.

 

[Shamah]

does he really think posting a bunch of verses will get people to see things his way? Especially since he adds a jewish tough?

Seriously, even paul did not do that.

I f the word can't convice people IDK what will, for he who has ears let him hear.

So what is the problem with what I posted?

Is it not true?

Is the Messiah not the one we must hear and obey?

Are His words not the standard that He will judge us by?

 

[Studyman]

Okay. cool. But you missed this one:

" For whoever keeps the whole Law yet stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." (James 2:10)

If you want to add the Law to the Gospel or grace. fine. But you DO NOT get to pick and choose which parts you obey. It's ALL OF IT or NOTHING.

That means you'd better get started building a Temple, finding a Levitical priest, and get those sacrifices started.

This is perfect Budman. You make my case. Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, told me of a changed "Priesthood". It's in your Bible. It's part of the Word which "many" who come in Christ's name ignore because of their religious traditions.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I (Jesus, the Word which became Flesh) will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus is saying that there will come a time when there are no Levite Priests to find to read His Instructions. Jesus will give them to us directly.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I (Jesus the Word which became Flesh) will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jesus is saying no more turtle doves or goats to take to Levite Priests to perform Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. The Word which became Flesh will forgive us with His own Blood.

Hebrews confirms this.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Again, the Word which became Flesh is telling us about the "old covenant", the Levitical Priesthood given to the Levites exclusively. But Jesus said in Jer. there would come a time when this has changed.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

So the Priesthood changed, what does the Bible say was "changed" in the Law?

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Jesus was not a Levite, therefore it was against the Laws of God (Moses) for Him to be a Priest? If you read the Law and Prophets, only the Levite was to be and perform the "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.

But the Word which became Flesh foretold of a time when He will make a "new covenant".

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (Of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood)

So since the "Seed", the Word which became Flesh has come, we no longer are "under" the old Levitical Priesthood and it's "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.

We have a "NEW PRIESTHOOD", a New Covenant in which the Christ administers God's Instructions on our heart, we don't "receive them by the Levitical Priesthood".

A New Priesthood, a "new covenant" in which the Word which became Flesh sheds His own Blood, and forgives us our sins through Himself, not the blood of goats and ceremonial, sacrificial "Works of the Law" which the Jews were "bewitching" folks with.

So you see Budman, by trusting "ALL" of God's Word's I understand that I am the temple now, not a pile of rocks. I understand that the Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus the Christ is my High Priest, that Jesus changed the Priesthood, and changed the Law regarding who can partake of God's Priesthood, as prophesied.

And I no longer, by the commandment of Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, am required to take animal sacrifices to the Levite Priest because Jesus is the Priest, and by Him and His Blood once and for all am I forgiven.

You are not being taught these Biblical truths but James was.

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

So in regards to the following, you are partially correct, your error is not recognizing the "Change" in the Priesthood and the "works of the Law" pertaining to it.

If you want to add the Law to the Gospel or grace. fine. But you DO NOT get to pick and choose which parts you obey. It's ALL OF IT or NOTHING.

That means you'd better get started building a Temple, finding a Levitical priest, and get those sacrifices started.

This is what I mean about religious traditions Jesus warned us of. To say as you suggest, that if I "Love my neighbor as myself" I must also take a turtle dove to the Levite Priest for forgiveness of sins is a false teaching.

Jesus changed the Priesthood as He promised in Jeremiah. He didn't change His Instructions which define sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

does he really think posting a bunch of verses will get people to see things his way? Especially since he adds a jewish tough?

Seriously, even paul did not do that.

Typical lawyer.....muddle the case with a bunch of jargon that has no bearing on the actual truth presented.....while rejecting the simple truth being glossed over.....

 

[Studyman]

does he really think posting a bunch of verses will get people to see things his way? Especially since he adds a jewish tough?

Seriously, even paul did not do that.

It's not now, nor has it ever been about getting people to see things a man's way EG. It is and always has been what the Word says VS. what the "many" who come in Christ's name says. We are told to take heed.

As the Word which became Flesh said:

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again..those who erroneously teach it can be lost deny the following truths...

a. If we believe not (after belief) he CANNOT DENY HIMSELF because HE REMAINS faithful
b. I will NEVER leave thee nor FORSAKE THEE
c. I WILL finish and COMPLETE the good work of faith that I have begun in you
d. Jesus will leave the 99 to find the one that went astray
e. We are in the FATHER'S hand
f. We are in the SON'S hand
g. We are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE unto the DAY of REDEMPTION
h. We are KEPT by the POWER OF GOD
I. WE ARE GIVEN as a GIFT ETERNAL LIFE, EVERLASTING LIFE
j. JESUS will LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up the last DAY
K. Salvation cannot be gained, then lost and then regained
l. Grace out bounds the sin of the believer
m. A son by birth cannot be changed ever
n. God deals with us as SONS and CHASTENS, he does not cast away
etc.

For salvation to be losable....ALL of the above must be false, null and or void.....

NOT HAPPENING...JESUS is not some weak flake liar that cannot keep his word........HE will do exactly as he said and eternal is eternal as applied unto the LIFE given at the moment of belief....it is not temporary based upon what we do or do not not do!

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible is clear....they went out from us because THEY NEVER WERE OF US <----what part of this belies saved and then forfeited? NOTHING....NEVER WERE OF US is clear....

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

The two events are tied together by the word AND......

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt


I am sick and tired of this word being misapplied.....and then used to try and support the loss of salvation....the word and application of the word is tied directly to the man of sin and him declaring himself as GOD......the word itself MUST be understood within this context and is applicable to the REVOLT that HE will lead AGAINST GOD and those that are SIDED with HIM in this revolt..........ALL other considerations DO NOT FIT this context......it is NOT about SAVED MEN losing salvation, it is about the gathering of the LOST who will not receive the love of the truth under the banner of the BEAST and his REVOLT against GOD........